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  #3381  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 4:11 PM
Baconboy007 Baconboy007 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 462
76'ers in Camden

It's not going to be cheap:

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...6ZdwzVL1tsN4qR1u0/g0e67a4e4&t=1402330103

$82 million in tax credits.
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  #3382  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 4:36 PM
PhiLaw PhiLaw is offline
 
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I am with Londonee on this one. I think this site is more amenable to apartments/condos. Building up with corridor with residential will give it the critical mass it needs for more retail/hotels. I just don't see demand for staying in a luxury hotel that requires you to travel on the subway to Center City. This may be suitable for temply alumni and other visitors, but not for a stand-alone hotel.
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  #3383  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 5:13 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus View Post
It's three subway stops from City Hall, you can catch the Broad/Ridge spur to Chinatown from Fairmount, and an easy walk to the Museums and ESP. It's a block away from Osteria, Alla Spina, the catering hall Vie, and an unnamed Starr project. It's across the street from the best new cheesesteak place in the city. It's a 15 minute walk to City Hall or the convention center. As far as impressions on tourists, I don't know. Broad and Fairmount isn't really that bad anymore, and this project is going to quickly cause lots of development on that corner to get rid of whatever bad that is left.
It is? I was not aware of any of that...

And you're right, it's quite quaint and cozy for tourists. Let's take a look at all of the amazing neighboring amenities. I mean, across the street they have a convenient bank for those travelers checks:


Wondrous and Ample parking for those out of towners:


Lots of lovely green space to explore:


World Class Shopping:


Impressive and vibrant streetscape:


And World Class dining options:
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  #3384  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 5:37 PM
MSFHQ MSFHQ is offline
 
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Posts: 179
I'm glad the Divine Lorraine is getting fixed, but that whole area is bad. IMO, Broad St that way needs a TON of work before it is anything that tourists would want to walk around or hang out in.

I feel bad for the poor out of towner that takes the BSL the wrong way to Olney and gets murdered.
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  #3385  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 5:49 PM
Johnland Johnland is offline
 
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OK Londonee, too funny. I can just see tourists whiling away the day perusing the weeds, I mean greenery, before heading off for some produce 'plus'.

As for the 76er's....what!! NJ will pay them to locate there? i didn't realize that franchise was so destitute. Thank god NJ taxpayers are there to help them out.
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  #3386  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 6:14 PM
eliasrapp98 eliasrapp98 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnland View Post
OK Londonee, too funny. I can just see tourists whiling away the day perusing the weeds, I mean greenery, before heading off for some produce 'plus'.

As for the 76er's....what!! NJ will pay them to locate there? i didn't realize that franchise was so destitute. Thank god NJ taxpayers are there to help them out.
How does it make you poor to accept free money to use to make your facility better?
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  #3387  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 6:15 PM
shadowbat2 shadowbat2 is offline
 
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Apartments in the Curtis Center....

$125M buyer plans apartments in empty Curtis offices

Quote:
Joseph N. DiStefano
Posted: Monday, June 9, 2014, 12:50 PM

Keystone Property Group, Bala Cynwyd, and North Jersey-based Mack-Cali Realty Corp. say they have jointly purchased Curtis Center, an underused Independence Mall office building with a soaring stone atrium and a Maxfield Parrish stained-glass window in the lobby, for $125 million in cash and will replace some office suites with "luxury apartments."

Mack-Cali has sold dozens of aging Philadelphia-area office buildings to Keystone over the past year but has said it wants to stay in the area as an apartment developer. Keystone boss William Glazer says he hopes to add younger office tenants by converting surplus space to restaurants, apartments and other features he calls "lifestyle-oriented" or "live-work-play", alongside office updates. Tenants include the U.S. General Services Administration. Glazer and his partners plan an initial 90 apartments averaging 1,000 sq. ft. each, and maybe more as office leases expire.

The complex and the neighboring Public Ledger Building were updated in the 1980s but have seldom attracted full occupancy or above-market rents in recent years. Citibank bought the two buildings for $137 million in 2006; they were later acquired as part of a large portfolio of Citi real estate by Sixers owner Josh Harris' Apollo Global Real Estate, which put them up for sale three years ago.

Curtis Center lies "in the heart of the growing Philadelphia housing market," said Mitchell E. Hersh, president and CEO of Mack-Cali, whose founders include Earle Mack, former name donor of Drexel University's law school, in a statement.

Besides apartments, the partners plan to add restaurants with outdoor seating along Washington Square and Independence National Historic Park, upgraded elevators, heating, air conditioning, parking and roofing. A Keystone affiliate will run the restaurants and stores; Mack-Cali's Roseland unit will develop and lease the apartments.

In the early 1900s, the building was the sumptuous home of Cyrus Curtis' publishing empire, which included the Saturday Evening Post, the largest-circulation U.S. magazine in the early 1900s, as well as the Inquirer and many other publications, filling 85,000 sq. ft. and a whole city block and attracting related businesses like the pioneering N.W. Ayer ad agency across Independence Square. (The Curtis empire also included the company's Curtis Park, Delaware County, printing complex, a fleet of electric vehicles, even a paper mill in Newark, Del.)

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-p...office-building.html#lcsqsm5V7YALAV5E.99
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  #3388  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 7:28 PM
AbortedWalrus AbortedWalrus is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
It is? I was not aware of any of that...

And you're right, it's quite quaint and cozy for tourists. Let's take a look at all of the amazing neighboring amenities. I mean, across the street they have a convenient bank for those travelers checks:


Wondrous and Ample parking for those out of towners:


Lots of lovely green space to explore:


World Class Shopping:


Impressive and vibrant streetscape:


And World Class dining options:
I mean, sure, you can put up three or four year old screen shots if you want. Meanwhile Abats Auto Tags is now Jimmy Gs, the lot across the street next to Sal's is for sale, and the building on the other side is pretty if in need of work. But more importantly what people will actually be looking at is the JBJ Soul Homes which actually looks fine and will have commercial aspects. The empty lot behind the DL will obviously be cleaned up when the DL gets done, so posting it is sort of pointless, and I don't quite understand what's so bad about having the salvation army office space next door to a hotel. The former mens shelter is now Starr's catering headquarters and it's actually quite an attractive building.

Basically all this tells me is that you haven't actually been there in 2+ years.
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  #3389  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 7:47 PM
McBane McBane is offline
 
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Unless the DL is aiming for the Motel 6 traveler, these conditions, recent/upcoming improvements notwithstanding, are unacceptable to your typical tourist/traveler. If I can book a room in Homes2Suites for today for $159, what would a tourist pay to stay at the DL? And please don't tell me that people will pay more to stay in a historic property, because those people will can stay at any number of such hotels downtown (Kimpton, Monaco, Rittenhouse, to name a few).

A business traveler? Close to office buildings but considering the number of hotels that are actually IN the business district and it makes little sense.

If I'm coming for a conference, why would I stay anywhere but at a convention center hotel? (Keep in mind my company isn't paying for me to explore hip, up and coming neighborhoods.)

I'm a visiting professor at Temple? I suppose this will do for now, but if there were so many people looking to plan their stay in Philly around Temple U, someone would've built a hotel on campus long ago.

A leisure traveler? Most are going to stay IN Center City; and the more budget conscious will use AirBB or stay in the northeast or the suburbs - but that hardly matters because the developer isn't springing for a full rehab to put down a Holiday Inn Express.

Can I see the long term potential? Sure. Can I see an amazing residential property here? Sure can. A hotel? That's a head scratcher. Sure it's convenient to lots of stuff but it isn't in the middle of anything. And that's a huge difference when viewing from the prospective of a resident vs. a traveler.

Last edited by McBane; Jun 9, 2014 at 8:06 PM.
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  #3390  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 7:48 PM
cafeguy cafeguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus View Post
I mean, sure, you can put up three or four year old screen shots if you want. Meanwhile Abats Auto Tags is now Jimmy Gs, the lot across the street next to Sal's is for sale, and the building on the other side is pretty if in need of work. But more importantly what people will actually be looking at is the JBJ Soul Homes which actually looks fine and will have commercial aspects. The empty lot behind the DL will obviously be cleaned up when the DL gets done, so posting it is sort of pointless, and I don't quite understand what's so bad about having the salvation army office space next door to a hotel. The former mens shelter is now Starr's catering headquarters and it's actually quite an attractive building.

Basically all this tells me is that you haven't actually been there in 2+ years.
The divine lorraine could definitely work as a hotel that serves a function for Temple and downtown. Heck, Drexel is building a hotel. Penn has several on its campus. With the new proposal for the callowhill and broad buildings on both side of the street... something, if not a casino, happening to the Inquirer building, Blatstein's renovating building at spring garden and broad and all the investment going on in callowhill, you could say that North broad up to spring garden is going to be complete enough to support a hotel. From Spring garden to fairmount, there is a TON of single family row home development coming on both sides of broad, albeit not directly on broad. The development with two fancy restaurants on Mt Vernon and broad are great. Then the ostaria development at wallace. I think its well connected to city hall, or at least on its way to being well connected. From ridge to Temple, however, its a little of a desert of development. South of Girard will likely see growth. North of girard to temple... maybe. There is hope, but not much abuzz on the west and east side of broad north of girard, so there is less of a critical mass to make it nicer. I think north broad's potential comes when neighborhoods that surround it become safer, nicer, and more dense.

So the major impediments would probably be the large swaths of surface parking at spring garden and broad, the large green vacant land to the east, and the difficulty of development north of girard on broad. But with everything south of spring garden, the city putting tons of money in north broad, and the single family housing market to the east and west of broad south of girard, this could totally be used as a hotel.

What would probably make the most sense, however, is to make it a split like the SLS. Make half of it luxery condos, the other fancy hotel rooms, rent out the beautiful top floor as event space, and throw a restaurant or two on the bottom floor and I think they would have a better chance of turning a profit AND helping to increase density on north broad to support further developments.
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  #3391  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 7:48 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
 
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I agree. A hotel is pointless here. Go residential. If Temple wants more hotel space they should build a new hotel on campus.
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  #3392  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 7:50 PM
PhiLaw PhiLaw is offline
 
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6,000 Conventioneers booked under new labor rules

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  #3393  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 7:53 PM
AbortedWalrus AbortedWalrus is offline
 
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Something to keep in mind is that the DL development isn't going to happen in a vacuum. It's going to be a two year project or more to rehab it, with simultaneous development going on all around it. In that neighborhood in the past five years just within two blocks or so there have been something like 100+ apartments and 30 condos developed, easily. And the development is actually getting FASTER, not slower. By the time the DL is finished Fairmount Ave will most likely be almost fully developed from Broad to the museum. There are basically only two blocks that need it, the 1600 and 1700 blocks, and the 1700 block has proposals for two of the three vacancies.
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  #3394  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 8:01 PM
MikeNigh MikeNigh is offline
 
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I think a lot of people would love to live there. Should CMX-5 some of the area in it's honor
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  #3395  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 8:02 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
 
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FINALLY. This is awesome. The Convention Center will now finally reach it's full potential, and because of that, you can expect a few more large scale hotel developments down the pipeline kicked off by the W/Element and SLS.
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  #3396  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 8:29 PM
AbortedWalrus AbortedWalrus is offline
 
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Architect's Newspaper Blog with details and photos of Divine Lorraine

Just some minor stuff. Apparently they think the area is nice enough to make an outdoor cafe feasible.
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  #3397  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 10:00 PM
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EastCoastAmerican EastCoastAmerican is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowbat2 View Post
$125M buyer plans apartments in empty Curtis offices
Great for the neighborhood. I hope they do not move The Dream Garden.
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  #3398  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2014, 11:36 PM
apetrella802 apetrella802 is offline
 
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dream garden

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastAmerican View Post
Great for the neighborhood. I hope they do not move The Dream Garden.
the dream garden mosaic is on a load bearing masonry wall, it would be very problematic to even think about moving it. This was determined when Steve Wynn wanted to buy it and move it to of all places Las Vegas.
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  #3399  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2014, 12:10 AM
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philatonian philatonian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
FINALLY. This is awesome. The Convention Center will now finally reach it's full potential, and because of that, you can expect a few more large scale hotel developments down the pipeline kicked off by the W/Element and SLS.
This is the most exciting news I've read in a long time. Word travels fast in the convention industry. I'm expecting a lot more new conventions and returning conventions. Maybe development can finally start spilling over to North Broad and Race Street!
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  #3400  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2014, 12:13 AM
ScreamShatter ScreamShatter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I agree. A hotel is pointless here. Go residential. If Temple wants more hotel space they should build a new hotel on campus.
That is close to Temple's campus -- especially once Temple buys William Penn High which expands the campus close to Girard. ;-)
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