YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Funny I was going to specifically mention Orlando, but I suppose anybody shouldn't wonder why Orlando does have this much service?

I thought that was obvious.

Boston is the 6th largest CMA in the USA with a population of almost 8 million..... so like I said....

OK, outside Orlando and all other massive metroplex or large super hub.

Let's be realistic....

I stand by my original comment.

Where would Seattle fit here? A bit bigger than Vancouver, more business class perhaps, but they have KEF, LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA year round, not to mention DBX.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Where would Seattle fit here? A bit bigger than Vancouver, more business class perhaps, but they have KEF, LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA year round, not to mention DBX.

Seattle CSA is also close to double Vancouver's population.

A perfect comparison is Portland... A city of roughly the same population as Vancouver, although much larger if you include it's total CSA.

It has one European route that being Amsterdam. LH even pulled out a few years ago.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Seattle CSA is also close to double Vancouver's population.

A perfect comparison is Portland... A city of roughly the same population as Vancouver, although much larger if you include it's total CSA.

It has one European route that being Amsterdam. LH even pulled out a few years ago.

All this is factual, I admit, but I also think it's important to consider that Vancouver is the pincipal Western city - and the third largest - of Canada itself.
Portland is a regional American city, along the lines of Kansas City, Cleveland, and such.
These do not have a lot of, if any, European connections, and are hubbed through Chicago or whatever the case may be.
Vancouver is already a destiation for numerous Chinese and Pacific airlines (Air New Zealand for example) and I still agree with Kapten that it needs just a few more European connections; Paris, Oslo (oil industry) and Rome for example. I'm sorry but I cannot agree that Vancouver has as good European connections of any city its size.
In a sense, perhaps yes, but given that it's Canada's third city, I think it assumes a more important world role than Portland, Kansas City, or Cleveland.

[Kapten]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Funny I was going to specifically mention Orlando, but I suppose anybody shouldn't wonder why Orlando does have this much service?

I thought that was obvious.

Boston is the 6th largest CMA in the USA with a population of almost 8 million..... so like I said....

OK, outside Orlando and all other massive metroplex or large super hub.

Let's be realistic....

I stand by my original comment.

The Boston CMA has almost eight million residents but the core population of Boston and its suburban counties (defined by the US government as the "Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area" or SMSA) is just 4.6 million. To get to the 7.9 million number you would need to add the populations of nearby states (RI), and additional counties in NH, MA, and CT. Statscan doest define population areas in the exact same way, but it would be analogous to combining all of the municipalities in the GVRD with those in the Fraser Valley and (possibly) the Sunshine Coast, some of the gulf islands, and parts of Vancouver Island (anywhere where someone could conceivably commute to work in Vancouver).

Montreal has a CMA of about 3.8 million. It's an air-Canada hub, but it's definitely not a "large super hub". Air Canada offers year-round service to 5 European cities; 2 additional cities are served year-round by Star Alliance codeshare partners (Munich and Zurich). Add in Amsterdam service on KLM, and the number of year-round non-stop European destinations from Montreal (8) is more than double the number from Vancouver (3).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Kapten

The Boston CMA has almost eight million residents but the core population of Boston and its suburban counties (defined by the US government as the "Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area" or SMSA) is just 4.6 million. To get to the 7.9 million number you would need to add the populations of nearby states (RI), and additional counties in NH, MA, and CT. Statscan doest define population areas in the exact same way, but it would be analogous to combining all of the municipalities in the GVRD with those in the Fraser Valley and (possibly) the Sunshine Coast, some of the gulf islands, and parts of Vancouver Island (anywhere where someone could conceivably commute to work in Vancouver).

Montreal has a CMA of about 3.8 million. It's an air-Canada hub, but it's definitely not a "large super hub". Air Canada offers year-round service to 5 European cities; 2 additional cities are served year-round by Star Alliance codeshare partners (Munich and Zurich). Add in Amsterdam service on KLM, and the number of year-round non-stop European destinations from Montreal (8) is more than double the number from Vancouver (3).

Not to mention Doha Qatar, Casablanca, Algiers, Tunis, and Istanbul

[spaceprobe]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Not to mention Doha Qatar, Casablanca, Algiers, Tunis, and Istanbul

yes, Vancouver needs more. Even Calgary has the same number of year round direct service to Europe!

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Kapten

The Boston CMA has almost eight million residents but the core population of Boston and its suburban counties (defined by the US government as the "Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area" or SMSA) is just 4.6 million. To get to the 7.9 million number you would need to add the populations of nearby states (RI), and additional counties in NH, MA, and CT. Statscan doest define population areas in the exact same way, but it would be analogous to combining all of the municipalities in the GVRD with those in the Fraser Valley and (possibly) the Sunshine Coast, some of the gulf islands, and parts of Vancouver Island (anywhere where someone could conceivably commute to work in Vancouver).

Montreal has a CMA of about 3.8 million. It's an air-Canada hub, but it's definitely not a "large super hub". Air Canada offers year-round service to 5 European cities; 2 additional cities are served year-round by Star Alliance codeshare partners (Munich and Zurich). Add in Amsterdam service on KLM, and the number of year-round non-stop European destinations from Montreal (8) is more than double the number from Vancouver (3).

Yes and BOS population based on your example is still double YVR, its the principal airport for New England hence its much larger population and catchment area and the fact that its on the east coast as well. And YUL.. 1.3 million more people, eastern location and a hub for AC.... Turning the tables around YVR is a "Pacific" city on the west coast with a much higher Asian population and growing. And YVR has how many nonstop destinations to Asia compared to YUL? All these arguments are exactly what I've been saying.

It is VERY unlikely YVR will attract many more European flights. Perhaps CDG one day, MUC year round and maybe KEF year round. Madrid, Oslo, Rome --->Not gonna happen.

It's fine to have wishful thinking but the reality is it isn't going to happen.

And yes somebody mentioned YYC again same deal amazing service for a city of around 1.3 million huh? Compared to Edmonton which is similar size but cannot seem to maintain one daily year round flight to Europe. AC has made LHR seasonal and only recently Icelandair has come on board. Maybe that will change but for now thats it.

[Gordon]

How about CDG as a seasonal Rouge destination?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Gordon

How about CDG as a seasonal Rouge destination?

That would be a good start, at least.

[Kapten]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yes and BOS population based on your example is still double YVR, its the principal airport for New England hence its much larger population and catchment area and the fact that its on the east coast as well. And YUL.. 1.3 million more people, eastern location and a hub for AC.... Turning the tables around YVR is a "Pacific" city on the west coast with a much higher Asian population and growing. And YVR has how many nonstop destinations to Asia compared to YUL? All these arguments are exactly what I've been saying.

It is VERY unlikely YVR will attract many more European flights. Perhaps CDG one day, MUC year round and maybe KEF year round. Madrid, Oslo, Rome --->Not gonna happen.

It's fine to have wishful thinking but the reality is it isn't going to happen.

And yes somebody mentioned YYC again same deal amazing service for a city of around 1.3 million huh? Compared to Edmonton which is similar size but cannot seem to maintain one daily year round flight to Europe. AC has made LHR seasonal and only recently Icelandair has come on board. Maybe that will change but for now thats it.

I think it's great that YVR has as much Asian service as it does, and I would like to see some additional destinations added (Singapore, Vietnam, and possibly KL).

But I still think that Vancouver would be a more competitive city business-wise with more European non-stop flights. Our city has a large Asian demographic, but that does not preclude persons of Asian descent needing to travel to Europe for work or pleasure (or even for family visits, as some Indo-Canadians have family in UK etc.).

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Gordon

How about CDG as a seasonal Rouge destination?

I think you hit the nail on the head...

If YVR were to get another route to CDG (and most likely this would be seasonal as well) I would expect it to be rouge. Perfect market for that flight a few times a week as it would go up against Transat. AC is (was) planning on adding its own metal to FRA as well.

People forget that YVR is a very seasonal market. During the summer months there is a huge amount of capacity to Europe, but in the winter the traffic just falls off immensely. Of course it would be great to have more year-round direct service.

BUT... YVR is just not big enough to warrant much more than it already has.

Even KL to AMS drops to 5 weekly in the winter and LH drops to 5-6 weekly for a few weeks over the dead of winter. Next winter capacity will increase though because of larger aircraft plying the AC to LHR and LH to FRA routes for the entire winter scheds.

And to sum up the rest of Western Canada:
AC YYC to LHR drops to a 763 and in fact only 6 weekly for a few weeks after the Christmas period, LH pulled out of YYC a couple of years ago, KL drops to 6 weekly and BA tends to use the smaller of its fleet on YYC-LHR (although that's going up to a 788 soon). Even charters to MAN have fallen off. At the peak, there used to be 6 weekly "ski" charters from the UK but even that is going to drop to only 1 weekly to LGW on Transat this upcoming winter (first time in years there is only one weekly flight on that route). And YEG, well as mentioned, AC pulled winter service to LHR (was only 3 weekly anyway), now we wait and see what Icelandair does.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Kapten

I think it's great that YVR has as much Asian service as it does, and I would like to see some additional destinations added (Singapore, Vietnam, and possibly KL).

None of those destinations are currently economically viable, with the possible exception of Singapore. However, when SQ was flying to YVR. it was via Seoul, and I doubt a nonstop would work.

My view is that more Chinese cities will be on the cards along with Melbourne and/or Brisbane.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

None of those destinations are currently economically viable, with the possible exception of Singapore. However, when SQ was flying to YVR. it was via Seoul, and I doubt a nonstop would work.

My view is that more Chinese cities will be on the cards along with Melbourne and/or Brisbane.

I'd love to see Melbourne and Brisbane!! We'd have four destinations down under, and be Canada's hub for the entire Pacific, North and South.

[Valley_Refugee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yes and BOS population based on your example is still double YVR, its the principal airport for New England hence its much larger population and catchment area and the fact that its on the east coast as well. And YUL.. 1.3 million more people, eastern location and a hub for AC.... Turning the tables around YVR is a "Pacific" city on the west coast with a much higher Asian population and growing. And YVR has how many nonstop destinations to Asia compared to YUL? All these arguments are exactly what I've been saying.

It is VERY unlikely YVR will attract many more European flights. Perhaps CDG one day, MUC year round and maybe KEF year round. Madrid, Oslo, Rome --->Not gonna happen.

It's fine to have wishful thinking but the reality is it isn't going to happen.

And yes somebody mentioned YYC again same deal amazing service for a city of around 1.3 million huh? Compared to Edmonton which is similar size but cannot seem to maintain one daily year round flight to Europe. AC has made LHR seasonal and only recently Icelandair has come on board. Maybe that will change but for now thats it.

Give up, Johnny. It's a losing battle on this thread...

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

Give up, Johnny. It's a losing battle on this thread...

Ha ha! Will never give up!

[Denscity]

Does anyone ever watch Border Security on National Geographic? Tons of YVR footage inside and out.

[giallo]

^ I love that show.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Does anyone ever watch Border Security on National Geographic? Tons of YVR footage inside and out.

One of my best friends is the Director of the show, love it!!! As a single male, I travel alone, often overseas and have been subjected to 'secondary inspection' a couple of times, so I find watching the show a guilty pleasure.

The aerials of YVR are amazing, shots and angles never seen before!

[YYCguys]

I love that show too. Glad to know there's others out there that do as well. None of my friends have even heard of it. I had to go through secondary inspection the other day in YVR and wondered where some of the officers we see on the show were.

I noticed, on an episode last night, that there some scenes from Toronto Pearson! I didn't know they filmed out there as well!

[Denscity]

Ya I've seen footage of YVR, Pearson, Port of Vancouver, Peace Arch border crossing, and one of the Ontario borders as well. Great show!