Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Well apparently I live in a 1 block void that has no neighborhood name.

Reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where Peter finds out that his house isn't part of the United States.

[brankrom]

Looks like within the last couple of years they changed the name of "People's Freeway Neighborhood" to "Ballpark".

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The biggest issue with Gateway is that it isn't that old. Trolley, Kingsbury, Pioneer - they were all built a generation ago and have aged out of being relevant in some instances. Gateway is only a decade old and was on the decline even before City Creek opened a few years ago.

The city invested a lot into that region and, while I won't suggest it's a failure, it hasn't lived up to the hype. Everything mentioned at the time has played out - just in reverse. The perception was that Gateway would kill off Main for good, but that was under the idea the two Main Street malls would operate at the same level they were around 2002. The LDS Church investing in the area gave Main new life and, in the process, handicapped the Gateway considerably. In the end, Salt Lake is just too small to support two major malls within blocks of each other.

So, now the city is left trying to figure out a way to redevelop the Gateway so that it doesn't become as desolate as the two Main Street malls did a decade ago. The problem is, there isn't an infinite amount of possibilities. The Gateway was built specifically because Salt Lake needed an updated retail center and the area, which had been rundown for quite some time, seemed like a logical choice - especially since it was supposed to anchor the west-end of downtown.

It hasn't.

You rarely see articles like this anymore:

http://archive.sltrib.com/printfriendly.php?id=2434723&itype=ngpsid

Ironically, in trying to save Main Street by disallowing Nordstrom from moving to the Gateway in 2003, the city killed Gateway. I don't fault 'em, because the logic was sound: if all the retail shifted to the Gateway, Main Street would dry up. It would have. The LDS Church would've had to reexamine its plans and a major retail center probably wouldn't be viable with the Gateway already firmly established with Nordstrom and even maybe Macy's. But it goes back to the idea that downtown can't support two major malls blocks apart (and I get ZCMI and Crossroads were two malls, but I still considered 'em one entity).

So, yeah, the Gateway will have to evolve. But again, into what? Does the SLC metro have the demographics to support a more adult-oriented entertainment district with night clubs, bars, sports bars and other activities?

Can the Gateway go from what it is today to something like this:

http://westgateaz.com/

Gateway should actively pursue the following options:

• Buffalo Wild Wings
• Hard Rock Cafe (bring it back to SLC)
• ESPN Zone
• Bubba Gump Shrimp Company
• House of Blues
• Rainforest Cafe
• Jimmy Buffett’s Margaritaville

I abhor chain restaurants most of the time, but most of those would be unique to Utah and allow for the Gateway to become a tourist destination so that it would have a great deal of foot traffic. It'd also be more tied into the entertainment theme and its location right next to the ESA should help.

But I don't know if any of those establishments would even be interested in coming to SLC. The Hard Rock didn't prosper here and who knows if they even would want to return?

But obviously something has to be fixed. Gateway has lost too much (like Old Navy closing in February) and it'll only continue. Then the perception will settle in that it's a failed development and no one will want anything to do with it. At that point, redeveloping the area, as we've seen with Trolley, could become infinitely harder.

I think the Gateway's primary challenge on top of everything you mentioned is that it's owned by a slum lord. It looks like —, and I mean in the most simple ways. Repainting a good portion of it would go a good distance, but even a power wash and some new light bulbs would do wonders. It seems like whoever owns it probably owns a bunch of Rite Aids.

Having said that, I think the potential for the Gateway to be reimagined is huge. You have the new long term stay hotels popping up next door, but more importantly, you have a much better connectivity to Rose Park and all the new housing near by. I think keeping the bright spot in the Gateway (near the theater) a place for restaurants and night life will be easy; that area is very welcoming from the street and seems set for that. But it's probably time to concede that a lot of this giant amount of leasable space in the middle is probably better suited for more neighborhood oriented services. A drug store like CVS as has been mentioned here before, would be ideal. I think a big Gold's Gym would be perfect. There aren't any real weight lifting gyms downtown outside of the super price exclusive The Gym which isn't going to cater to my Rose Park homies who have to commute to my Bountiful Golds. There is still a huge void downtown after they tore down Deseret Gym. Golds are open until 12:00 am, so that is more foot traffic for the more traditionally dead parts of the gateway.

[CofIKid]

The property management company has invested money into Gateway mall over the last year. I would attribute a lot of the neglect to Boyer not keeping the mall up. It seems like more of a catch up game at this point for the current owners.

The new landscaping and seating is nice, and they have replaced a lot of the deteriorating concrete.

Also new stores are opening...Work has began on the new "Game Works" arcade and restaurant, as well as work in the old AT&T location.

I have talked to several of the store managers at the mall, and many that are still there are doing well, and some are the busiest in there districts. I don't think any large scale renovation will happen until more of the mall is leased.

Maybe I am too optimistic though.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by CofIKid

The property management company has invested money into Gateway mall over the last year. I would attribute a lot of the neglect to Boyer not keeping the mall up. It seems like more of a catch up game at this point for the current owners.

The new landscaping and seating is nice, and they have replaced a lot of the deteriorating concrete.

Also new stores are opening...Work has began on the new "Game Works" arcade and restaurant, as well as work in the old AT&T location.

I have talked to several of the store managers at the mall, and many that are still there are doing well, and some are the busiest in there districts. I don't think any large scale renovation will happen until more of the mall is leased.

Maybe I am too optimistic though.

Actually. I drove by the other day and was really impressed with the vegetation that they have added. It was like I was in a garden driving on rio grand. The should go all out with the greenery and call it the The Gardens Shopping Center at the Gateway. lol. just an idea

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Actually. I drove by the other day and was really impressed with the vegetation that they have added. It was like I was in a garden driving on rio grand. The should go all out with the greenery and call it the The Gardens Shopping Center at the Gateway. lol. just an idea

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon on Gentile Street!

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon on Gentile Street!

hahaha. that was funny

[delts145]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Actually. I drove by the other day and was really impressed with the vegetation that they have added. It was like I was in a garden driving on rio grand. The should go all out with the greenery and call it the The Gardens Shopping Center at the Gateway. lol. just an idea

Good to get an actual up to date accounting of Gateway EP. Sounds to me like it's heading in the right direction. The evolution will happen over time, and I'm convinced that Gateway will have a bright future as the west side of downtown continues to grow and redevelop into a real urban center.

[ToysNoiz]

A few people on here have voiced their concern about a large enough demographic actually being in favor of Gateway being redeveloped into an outdoor bar/entertainment center. But how many folks have you heard complain about there not being enough to do downtown at night? There are a lot of negative nancy's craving more nightlife. You know who these people are, the ones who say stuff like "Man, this place —' —. There's nothin' to do. Where can I buy stuff and drink and blahhh" (I honestly don't expect any mid-sized city to have an amazing nightlife) Plenty of people would want a redevelopment.

The only people I know who like Gateway are teens. I think that's because most of the shops at Gateway have cheaper items and activities to purchase, compared to City Creek. There are only three places I can afford to shop at at City Creek. Another reason why Gateway might be popular with teens is that they just don't know any better. No adult I know wants to hang in that area of downtown. They know it's not all that safe once you exit Gateway. (It's not ghetto by any means, there is no ghetto in Utah, it's just not the best area) I had a friend who wanted me to take her senior photos at Pioneer Park. She didn't know any better.

[ryerop]

An idea that I have for the Gateway, (I still need to email someone and pitch it to them) was to get one of the popular radio stations with a good morning and afternoon show to come move their station to gateway and have big windows so people could go watch the morning show happening. They have this outside of Dallas TX in a shopping center called The Canals at Las Colinas. There is a beautiful space they use to air a radio show called Kidd Kraddick in the Morning. The space is enclosed with windows so fans of the show can sit outside and watch as it is being broadcast/recorded. I was thinking if they could get the Radio from Hell, X96 show, or The Mix 107.9 morning show, something of that caliber with that kind of following to come locate their station down there it would do wonders for the shopping and experience as a whole. The whole bar concept would work well for that as well, seeing as that is the same type of setting that is in Texas as well. Not only do those stations have a great morning show, but they have the afternoon shows and could sponsor events down at their station as well. They could get in one of the spots on the ground floor right under the gateway sign on the bridge, it would be a great spot to bring people down there....Sorry for the long thought, any thoughts on this idea.
Also with the exception of X96 studios being across from Trolley Square all the other stations have horrible locations with zero way to have some interaction...even X96 isn't great.

[SL,UT]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

A few people on here have voiced their concern about a large enough demographic actually being in favor of Gateway being redeveloped into an outdoor bar/entertainment center. But how many folks have you heard complain about there not being enough to do downtown at night? There are a lot of negative nancy's craving more nightlife. You know who these people are, the ones who say stuff like "Man, this place —' —. There's nothin' to do. Where can I buy stuff and drink and blahhh" (I honestly don't expect any mid-sized city to have an amazing nightlife) Plenty of people would want a redevelopment.

The only people I know who like Gateway are teens. I think that's because most of the shops at Gateway have cheaper items and activities to purchase, compared to City Creek. There are only three places I can afford to shop at at City Creek. Another reason why Gateway might be popular with teens is that they just don't know any better. No adult I know wants to hang in that area of downtown. They know it's not all that safe once you exit Gateway. (It's not ghetto by any means, there is no ghetto in Utah, it's just not the best area) I had a friend who wanted me to take her senior photos at Pioneer Park. She didn't know any better.

I would totally support the gateway being a nightlife district. But I think you and me both know the church won't have anything to do with it. They will use their influence at the DABC to try and curb any bars or clubs trying to apply for licenses. Just look what is happening with Oktoberfest. They are trying to reinterpret the current laws so they can push their agenda of prohibition. Maybe I'm just being a negative Nancy but that is just my opinion.

I think if the gateway really wants to be successful, that homeless shelter needs to go. Even if it was moved a few blocks south I think that would help a lot. I don't have anything against the homeless, but they cause all the drug dealers to come up to that area and sell drugs. It is great to see all the residential development in that area, but I think there should be more.

Anyway, Pride is this weekend! Cheers

[ToysNoiz]

Unless the Church owns land that the Gateway is on, they can't anything. I wouldn't be paranoid about what the Church is trying to do. Folks around here act like the Church is the illuminati and there's a massive conspiracy.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Unless the Church owns land that the Gateway is on, they can't anything. I wouldn't be paranoid about what the Church is trying to do. Folks around here act like the Church is the illuminati and there's a massive conspiracy.

There is no conspiracy, the LDS Church has very openly stated their desire for the state legislatures to keep the status quo in regards to the states liquor laws. I am surprised that no one has mentioned the single obstacle to the Gateway transitioning to a nightlife district: the shortage of alcohol and club licenses. It can take years for a club/bar to get a license to sell alcohol. I think the Gateway will be able to survive (the Gateway is still alive and well). But if the Gateway district were to become an entertainment district it would be after more liquor licenses were made available.

[RosePark]

Originally Posted by SL,UT

I think if the gateway really wants to be successful, that homeless shelter needs to go. Even if it was moved a few blocks south I think that would help a lot. I don't have anything against the homeless, but they cause all the drug dealers to come up to that area and sell drugs. It is great to see all the residential development in that area, but I think there should be more.

Anyway, Pride is this weekend! Cheers

I make the same argument about the homeless shelter as I do the prison....it was there first. Moving the problem doesn't solve the problem and where exactly "a few blocks south" are you proposing?

The Gateway was once successful despite it's location. It will be again if there is a compelling reason for people to patronize it.

[SL,UT]

Originally Posted by RosePark

I make the same argument about the homeless shelter as I do the prison....it was there first. Moving the problem doesn't solve the problem and where exactly "a few blocks south" are you proposing?

The Gateway was once successful despite it's location. It will be again if there is a compelling reason for people to patronize it.

I disagree with moving the prison. It is costly and not necessary. It does need a make over tho. The homeless shelter in smack dab in the middle of a great location. I would propose it being moved around 600 S. 500 W. Probably will never happen, but thats what I had in mind.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Unless the Church owns land that the Gateway is on, they can't anything. I wouldn't be paranoid about what the Church is trying to do. Folks around here act like the Church is the illuminati and there's a massive conspiracy.

Here's one example of how the church operates. During the Olympics, I was part of a coalition of 14 organizations calling itself Safe Games 2002. We were handing out packets with hand warmers, chapstick, safety information and condoms, among other things.

The LDS church heard of our plan to distribute 250,000 of these packets during the games, i.e. 250,000 condoms. They heard about it because it was mentioned on Letterman and Leno.

The Utah chapter of the Red Cross was one of the 14 organizations involved in Safe Games 2002. The LDS church called up the national head of the Red Cross to tell her that they were going to discontinue their annual $250,000 donation to the Utah chapter, unless the Red Cross pulled out of the coalition.
The Red Cross was a key part of the coalition because they were the only organization allowed to have their first aid tents inside the fenced area, where we were going to store our supplies for volunteers.

So, the Red Cross pulled out of the coalition, however, the local director just let us store our supplies anyway, even though they weren't technically part of the coalition.

So, yes, the LDS church does conspire to eliminate things they don't approve of.

We also distributed 50,000 condoms to athletes in the Olympic Village.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2002/February/22/dr00009619.aspx?p=1

^In this article the Red Cross claimed that they pulled out of the coalition because the volunteers were giving out the packets to teens. But actually, the Red Cross pulled out before any packets were distributed at all. No teens were given condoms.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2002/February/06/dr00009311.aspx?p=1

[utenation]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Here's one example of how the church operates. During the Olympics, I was part of a coalition of 14 organizations calling itself Safe Games 2002. We were handing out packets with hand warmers, chapstick, safety information and condoms, among other things.

The LDS church heard of our plan to distribute 250,000 of these packets during the games, i.e. 250,000 condoms. They heard about it because it was mentioned on Letterman and Leno.

The Utah chapter of the Red Cross was one of the 14 organizations involved in Safe Games 2002. The LDS church called up the national head of the Red Cross to tell her that they were going to discontinue their annual $250,000 donation to the Utah chapter, unless the Red Cross pulled out of the coalition.
The Red Cross was a key part of the coalition because they were the only organization allowed to have their first aid tents inside the fenced area, where we were going to store our supplies for volunteers.

So, the Red Cross pulled out of the coalition, however, the local director just let us store our supplies anyway, even though they weren't technically part of the coalition.

So, yes, the LDS church does conspire to eliminate things they don't approve of.

We also distributed 50,000 condoms to athletes in the Olympic Village.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2002/February/22/dr00009619.aspx?p=1

^In this article the Red Cross claimed that they pulled out of the coalition because the volunteers were giving out the packets to teens. But actually, the Red Cross pulled out before any packets were distributed at all. No teens were given condoms.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2002/February/06/dr00009311.aspx?p=1

There are many things I love about Utah.. Things like this make me want to puke.. Anyone who thinks the church is some innocent off to the side organization, needs to wake up.

[SLC Projects]

A lot of bitter feelings towards the LDS on here. Downtown would be a ghost town if it wasn't for them. No Temple Square, No City Creek Center, No ESA/Utah Jazz, maybe no UPAC as well.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by utenation

There are many things I love about Utah.. Things like this make me want to puke.. Anyone who thinks the church is some innocent off to the side organization, needs to wake up.

This comment is way off the line! They pulled their support because it doesn't align with their principles! The media can tie the church by association to the Red Cross for allowing Stenar's Safe Games group to hand out condoms and then make fun of the church for passing out condoms. It's not some conspiracy! I despise these anti-Mormon comments on here! Stop it already!!

[utenation]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

A lot of bitter feelings towards the LDS on here. Downtown would be a ghost town if it wasn't for them. No Temple Square, No City Creek Center, No ESA/Utah Jazz, maybe no UPAC as well.

There is a big difference between bitter and stating facts. I don't care what religion it is, I would feel the same way.

When 90% of the laws are well represented by the LDS Church and their agenda for half or less of the population, that's a problem for those that aren't LDS. More Non LDS people need to get their asses to the voting booth.

I've worked around and lived around their agenda for 35 years, that doesn't make it right. I also respect many of the things they've done to enhance our community and ecomomy.

They cross the line in politics.. No two ways about it.