TriMet/Metro Southwest Corridor Planning (Portland to Bridgeport Village)

[bvpcvm]

Metro has somewhat narrowed down the route for SW LRT, and let me tell you, it's ugly.

[cityscapes]

I think it's partly such an ugly mess because they seem very focused on serving both Tigard Triangle and Tigard TC on the way to Tualatin.

If the route ends up being LRT and not BRT I feel like it would make more sense to build the route along I-5 after passing PCC straight to Tualatin and then build a spur to Tigard TC along 99. This seems to require less track because it avoids backtracking, but the problem is I don't think 99 could handle LRT.

The route they're proposing seems like it would make riders spend an awful long time meandering through the SW part of the metro area before getting to Downtown.

[urbanlife]

Not a huge fan of this proposed route, it seems like the route I was hoping for is DOA, which isn't something that surprised me. I figure we will end up seeing a small amount of tunneling and having the light rail mostly running along Barbur.

[maccoinnich]

Goodbye, tunnel to Hillsdale, we barely knew you. At least the short tunnel under OHSU is still under consideration.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Goodbye, tunnel to Hillsdale, we barely knew you. At least the short tunnel under OHSU is still under consideration.

Exactly, I was hoping a tunnel to Hillsdale would have been Portland's go big or go home moment, but in true Oregon fashion it looks like the path of least excitement will be the one that happens. I do hope the tunnel to OHSU happens because that is a great opportunity to really connect it to the city and provide the relief the tram is going to need.

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

Exactly, I was hoping a tunnel to Hillsdale would have been Portland's go big or go home moment, but in true Oregon fashion it looks like the path of least excitement will be the one that happens. I do hope the tunnel to OHSU happens because that is a great opportunity to really connect it to the city and provide the relief the tram is going to need.

hahaha, no kidding. i love how we immediately throw out the parts that would make this thing efficient and fast and actually competitive with driving and leave in the ridiculous jog into downtown tigard, which i think is completely unnecessary. sure, there's a transit center, with wes, but the line would connect to wes anyway in tualatin as well as barbur transit center. why not split this thing into two branches at pcc? one to tigard, the other to tualatin?? it's ridiculous.

[cailes]

The Tigard mess is exactly why serving car based suburban development is always going to be setup to fail.

Apparently, Tigard doesn't want it anyway, so find a better way to just zoom past
;-)

[hat]

SW Corridor site got a facelift.

[bvpcvm]

Southwest Corridor plan would sacrifice Barbur Boulevard auto lanes for Portland-Tigard transit line (Oregonian/Joseph Rose)

The article references another article, which mentions a new proposal from TriMet to split the LRT/BRT line after Sylvania, with one branch to downtown Tigard, the other to Tualatin. This is a much better option than that ridiculous jog into Tigard that Metro is currently planning.

Info on the plans for the Tigard Triangle, where I currently work, and which is a bleak, despairing suburban wasteland. However, Tigard's plans should spruce it up a bit. In light of Tigard's plans, Metro's plans to serve the Triangle make a bit more sense.

And, finally, Reddit's discussion of the proposal to remove lanes on Barbur to make way for transit.

[davehogan]

Can I just be obnoxious for a moment? Because I'm running out of things to be. The SW corridor plan is stupid. It's like trying to buy cigarettes with unicorn farts. One way or another you'll get burned. Or the unicorn will, and that would also be bad.

If it's not gong to be done with tunnels why do it at all? Let's get PCC off the board. I barely ever drive, but taking a lane away from 99W each way for 3 miles to avoid a tunnel? Really?

[hat]

Originally Posted by davehogan

Can I just be obnoxious for a moment? Because I'm running out of things to be. The SW corridor plan is stupid. It's like trying to buy cigarettes with unicorn farts. One way or another you'll get burned. Or the unicorn will, and that would also be bad.

If it's not gong to be done with tunnels why do it at all? Let's get PCC off the board. I barely ever drive, but taking a lane away from 99W each way for 3 miles to avoid a tunnel? Really?

You're suggesting they build a tunnel for the entire stretch to Tigard?

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by hat

You're suggesting they build a tunnel for the entire stretch to Tigard?

Nope, I was just disappointed that they're planning to make stretches of Barbur one lane each way and some of the other recently announced changes to make it a little cheaper. Tunnels are expensive, but if money is the big issue maybe there are better options?

For what the SW Corridor will cost we should really just put a tunnel from the Lloyd Center/Banfield area to the Roberson Tunnel area on the table. Even if just the Blue Line was put underground (leaving the Red on the existing tracks) it would be a much more attractive commute option. Subway stations can serve multiple stops with larger vehicles, and TriMet's fleet can operate underground.

Buffalo runs their LRT vehicles in a tunnel (but in a reverse fashion where they're above ground in downtown and below as you leave it, but that more or less comes down to ROW issues), and Portland already runs trains under the West Hills, so tunneling in either case shouldn't be an issue.

Plus it would get trains off the Steel Bridge, which is at capacity. That means no more Blue, Red, Yellow, or Green line service until that's addressed. The Orange and SW would be okay, but they depend on other trains connecting to them as well.

[hat]

Originally Posted by davehogan

Nope, I was just disappointed that they're planning to make stretches of Barbur one lane each way and some of the other recently announced changes to make it a little cheaper. Tunnels are expensive, but if money is the big issue maybe there are better options?

For what the SW Corridor will cost we should really just put a tunnel from the Lloyd Center/Banfield area to the Roberson Tunnel area on the table. Even if just the Blue Line was put underground (leaving the Red on the existing tracks) it would be a much more attractive commute option. Subway stations can serve multiple stops with larger vehicles, and TriMet's fleet can operate underground.

Buffalo runs their LRT vehicles in a tunnel (but in a reverse fashion where they're above ground in downtown and below as you leave it, but that more or less comes down to ROW issues), and Portland already runs trains under the West Hills, so tunneling in either case shouldn't be an issue.

Plus it would get trains off the Steel Bridge, which is at capacity. That means no more Blue, Red, Yellow, or Green line service until that's addressed. The Orange and SW would be okay, but they depend on other trains connecting to them as well.

Where are does the committee plan to pare down Barbur to one lane each way? Undoubtedly, the downtown malls and Steel bridge are a pretty consistent mess. While I would rather (personally) ride underground downtown, I see a tremendous need in SW that trumps my inconvenience.

I also think a critical mass of riders on the tram necessitates transit improvement in that area (perhaps a tunnel to OHSU). In a similar fashion, if people become more supportive of a Powell MAX, the malls might reach their capacity threshold. This would be a better (and more pressing) basis for arguing for a tunnel downtown. In other words if you want a tunnel downtown, the current system of malls has to be proven by evidence to be obsolete.

[dubu]

id have the orange and green line extended to oc and have light rail on powell if there was billions given to us. it could happen but not in our lifetime

[urbanlife]

I am interested in hearing what the committee decides tomorrow. The only thing I hope they don't do is a "do nothing" plan which would basically kill light rail to the Southwest. I think it is essential for Portland to have a SW line so that it has light rail running basically to each part of the city and region, which the region can then look more into splitting lines so that they can go to multiple locations.

I personally would like to see an OHSU to Hillsdale tunnel, and then becoming grade separated after that, but if it is a grade separated surface line the entire way, I can understand that as well, especially if the commute time isn't much different and the surface route is much cheaper. I would rather see them go with the line they know they can get built than the line I want to see them do.

[dubu]

even if its a tunnel only to hillsdale and it stops above ground there so you dont have another underground stop.

i hope it wont be along 99w

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I personally would like to see an OHSU to Hillsdale tunnel, and then becoming grade separated after that, but if it is a grade separated surface line the entire way, I can understand that as well, especially if the commute time isn't much different and the surface route is much cheaper. I would rather see them go with the line they know they can get built than the line I want to see them do.

The tunnel option to Hillsdale has already been eliminated. There's still an option for LRT in a short tunnel under OHSU, but not for BRT.

[hat]

Any reason why the short tunnel has such a swervy alignment? Was it to include the Hamilton stop?

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

The tunnel option to Hillsdale has already been eliminated. There's still an option for LRT in a short tunnel under OHSU, but not for BRT.

That is a shame, it makes no sense to tunnel under OHSU and not continue south to Hillsdale.

[bvpcvm]

Well, it does make sense, actually; it'll save a few hundred million dollars.