Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Ah. Makes sense.... Except the bike lanes on the Heron Road bridge are shared with buses and don't reach Prince of Wales.

Actually the bike lanes on Heron Bridge are marked separately from the bus lane and run beside it. The only thing is that buses have to pull into them temporarily to let passengers on and off at the stops. The bike lanes aren't physically separated but buses don't drive in them.

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Agree with the general sentiments about the bus lanes on Baseline. This is an important east west alternative to the downtown LRT and present transit way route. It will also be a significant improvement for transit in a different part of the city which isn't centered as much around either downtown or the outer suburbs (Kanata, Orleans etc). I currently live in the area on Dynes Rd and regularly use the 111 and 118 and there was a major improvement after they finished the Heron Bridge lanes, especially during peak hours.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

Actually the bike lanes on Heron Bridge are marked separately from the bus lane and run beside it. The only thing is that buses have to pull into them temporarily to let passengers on and off at the stops. The bike lanes aren't physically separated but buses don't drive in them.

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Agree with the general sentiments about the bus lanes on Baseline. This is an important east west alternative to the downtown LRT and present transit way route. It will also be a significant improvement for transit in a different part of the city which isn't centered as much around either downtown or the outer suburbs (Kanata, Orleans etc). I currently live in the area on Dynes Rd and regularly use the 111 and 118 and there was a major improvement after they finished the Heron Bridge lanes, especially during peak hours.

The first thing OC can do - immediately at no cost! - is convert the peak period short runs (starting in Bells Corners and ending at Baseline in the AM peak, and ending in Bells Corners and starting at Baseline in the PM peak) to a new rapid transit route (call it, say, 108). The stops could be reduced to as follows on Baseline/Heron: Confederation, Prince of Wales, Fisher, Merivale, Clyde, Algonquin, Baseline Stn, Centrepointe (west), Greenbank, Queensway-Carleton, then make all stops in Bells Corners if short-running there.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why does the city insist on NOT posting the materials for these events until after they've happened?

My guess is that they want people to actually attend the open houses.

[1overcosc]

I hope that with this BRT, as well as the one on March, the city is smart enough to install traffic light control software that aimes to maximize green lights for buses. It's a very feasible technology; it works by having all traffic lights remotely controlled by a central computer which also receives live GPS data from buses, and using that information, fudges with traffic light cycles in real time to maximize green time for buses, with rules like:
-if a bus is projected to arrive 5 seconds after a green light goes yellow, hold the green for those extra 5 seconds
-if a bus is projected to arrive 2 seconds before a light goes green, shorten or eliminate the previous phase to make the light go green sooner

They have them at some intersections in York Region and Kingston is considering installing them.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The first thing OC can do - immediately at no cost! - is convert the peak period short runs (starting in Bells Corners and ending at Baseline in the AM peak, and ending in Bells Corners and starting at Baseline in the PM peak) to a new rapid transit route (call it, say, 108). The stops could be reduced to as follows on Baseline/Heron: Confederation, Prince of Wales, Fisher, Merivale, Clyde, Algonquin, Baseline Stn, Centrepointe (west), Greenbank, Queensway-Carleton, then make all stops in Bells Corners if short-running there.

I've discussed similar ideas before. Pretty much run a rapid route along Baseline Rd only stopping at arterial roads (and a few other significant stops). I don't know if the city is considering this but one possibility if there is room for it could be to add a few passing lanes along with the main bus lanes on Baseline, particularly at local stops. This would let buses on the local 118 route pull over for a bit so the ones on the rapid route could pass without getting stopped or to avoid having to pull into regular traffic for a bit.

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I hope that with this BRT, as well as the one on March, the city is smart enough to install traffic light control software that aimes to maximize green lights for buses. It's a very feasible technology; it works by having all traffic lights remotely controlled by a central computer which also receives live GPS data from buses, and using that information, fudges with traffic light cycles in real time to maximize green time for buses, with rules like:
-if a bus is projected to arrive 5 seconds after a green light goes yellow, hold the green for those extra 5 seconds
-if a bus is projected to arrive 2 seconds before a light goes green, shorten or eliminate the previous phase to make the light go green sooner

They have them at some intersections in York Region and Kingston is considering installing them.

I've heard about that technology before. It is used in quite a few cities with dedicated bus lanes. Would be a good idea.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

I've discussed similar ideas before. Pretty much run a rapid route along Baseline Rd only stopping at arterial roads (and a few other significant stops). I don't know if the city is considering this but one possibility if there is room for it could be to add a few passing lanes along with the main bus lanes on Baseline, particularly at local stops. This would let buses on the local 118 route pull over for a bit so the ones on the rapid route could pass without getting stopped or to avoid having to pull into regular traffic for a bit.



I've heard about that technology before. It is used in quite a few cities with dedicated bus lanes. Would be a good idea.

They just got rid of the bus bays that would serve that purpose with good reason. It was delaying bus service because buses had to wait to merge back into traffic.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by JCL

My guess is that they want people to actually attend the open houses.

I'd like to have informed, well-researched people do that, too.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They just got rid of the bus bays that would serve that purpose with good reason. It was delaying bus service because buses had to wait to merge back into traffic.

If Ottawa drivers weren't such douches, the bus bays would have stayed, but the are so they didn't.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They just got rid of the bus bays that would serve that purpose with good reason. It was delaying bus service because buses had to wait to merge back into traffic.

Where is this? Might be a different situation because I am proposing having the bus bays be beside the bus lanes, not next to normal car lanes. Even if it were with bus lanes in areas like the downtown transitway the situation might be different with the Baseline BRT because there would be far fewer buses and the local ones would not be blocked for as long.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They just got rid of the bus bays that would serve that purpose with good reason. It was delaying bus service because buses had to wait to merge back into traffic.

I think the idea was to have the buses pull off the bus lanes and into bus bays, keeping the bus lanes open for express buses. This would work since bus drivers tend to let each other in and buses aren't that frequent, but without them express buses would be nearly useless.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I think the idea was to have the buses pull off the bus lanes and into bus bays, keeping the bus lanes open for express buses. This would work since bus drivers tend to let each other in and buses aren't that frequent, but without them express buses would be nearly useless.

Yes that is the idea I was proposing

[SF Thomas]

Went to the Baseline BRT lane open house earlier tonight. The city and planners are leaning most strongly towards median bus lanes in the middle of the road with boarding islands by traffic lights, at least between Algonquin College and Prince of Wales. They are planning to only run rapid buses on Baseline without a regular local route along the whole road. Basically this means getting rid of local stops and having a smaller number near specific intersecting arterial roads.

For the short to medium term the area west of Algonquin is probably going to be limited to cue jumps at traffic lights because it would require the city to annex more property from people's front lawns for full 6 lanes. These improvements would probably be phased in over a number of years as well. If demand is there they might eventually convert the whole thing to 6 lanes with 2 for buses.

The planners said this probably wouldn't start being implemented until 2019 and it is most likely the eastern portion between Algonquin and POW gets first priority. The planner said the formal report will be done sometime next year.

I asked if it might be possible to speed up implementation and he said that it would probably take the city until 2019 to get an environmental assessment, secure funding and go the contract tendering process. Call me a bit skeptical that it couldn't be done any faster, I think it could probably be started within at least 2 to 3 years. Don't know if the city would fast track it or not though.

One really good thing which came out of this was that the city is planning on grade separating bike lanes along Baseline from the road or creating a multi-use path (on the design plan the bike lanes were higher up than the road and curb separated).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

Went to the Baseline BRT lane open house earlier tonight. The city and planners are leaning most strongly towards median bus lanes in the middle of the road with boarding islands by traffic lights, at least between Algonquin College and Prince of Wales. They are planning to only run rapid buses on Baseline without a regular local route along the whole road. Basically this means getting rid of local stops and having a smaller number near specific intersecting arterial roads.

For the short to medium term the area west of Algonquin is probably going to be limited to cue jumps at traffic lights because it would require the city to annex more property from people's front lawns for full 6 lanes. These improvements would probably be phased in over a number of years as well. If demand is there they might eventually convert the whole thing to 6 lanes with 2 for buses.

The planners said this probably wouldn't start being implemented until 2019 and it is most likely the eastern portion between Algonquin and POW gets first priority. The planner said the formal report will be done sometime next year.

I asked if it might be possible to speed up implementation and he said that it would probably take the city until 2019 to get an environmental assessment, secure funding and go the contract tendering process. Call me a bit skeptical that it couldn't be done any faster, I think it could probably be started within at least 2 to 3 years. Don't know if the city would fast track it or not though.

One really good thing which came out of this was that the city is planning on grade separating bike lanes along Baseline from the road or creating a multi-use path (on the design plan the bike lanes were higher up than the road and curb separated).

The TMP does call for transit-prority only west of Baseline and BRT from there eastward.

If money was available, it could easily start in 2-3 years, but it likely isn't. This project, along with all the other BRT projects in the TMP, is being funded entirely by the city, which means the city needs sufficient capital to pay for it all. I imagine Baseline BRT is going to cost somewhere in the $100M-$200M range. The city likely has to wait for freeing of debt capacity and/or filling of capital reserves. Also, I imagine the city isn't going to want to start this project while Confederation Line phase 1 is still under construction.

I'm glad the city is going with median design. It means faster service. Also, the lack of paralleling local transit is good news. The BRT is planned for close station spacing according to the TMP, so parallel local transit isn't really needed. Metrolinx research from Toronto has found that parallel local transit is unnecessary when station spacing is less than 500m, which the Baseline BRT is planned for. As a supplementary line, close station spacing is perfectly acceptable for Baseline, and the lack of paralleling local transit frees up operational dollars for Baseline BRT service.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The TMP does call for transit-prority only west of Baseline and BRT from there eastward.

If money was available, it could easily start in 2-3 years, but it likely isn't. This project, along with all the other BRT projects in the TMP, is being funded entirely by the city, which means the city needs sufficient capital to pay for it all. I imagine Baseline BRT is going to cost somewhere in the $100M-$200M range. The city likely has to wait for freeing of debt capacity and/or filling of capital reserves. Also, I imagine the city isn't going to want to start this project while Confederation Line phase 1 is still under construction.

I'm glad the city is going with median design. It means faster service. Also, the lack of paralleling local transit is good news. The BRT is planned for close station spacing according to the TMP, so parallel local transit isn't really needed. Metrolinx research from Toronto has found that parallel local transit is unnecessary when station spacing is less than 500m, which the Baseline BRT is planned for. As a supplementary line, close station spacing is perfectly acceptable for Baseline, and the lack of paralleling local transit frees up operational dollars for Baseline BRT service.

The planners did imply that it might take a bit to secure funding. I was half guessing it was for the reason you pointed out, that money is tied up in other transit projects. I'm pretty sure that the city planner on this project (there were also representative from Delcan the company helping with the study) said the capital budget was about $110 to $130 million for Baseline BRT.

On a side note though if they did start Baseline BRT 3 years from now that would be just about when construction on the Confederation line phase 1 ends.

[DarkArconio]

Well phase 1 is supposed to launch in 2018, so construction would begin just a year later, presumably running in parallel to phase 2 construction (of course, big question about the chances of that going ahead right now).

[Mikeed]

I really thought the city was gonna fast track this project in anticipation for when the transitway from Tunney's to Baseline get's shut down for phase 2 of the confederation line.

That way busses from Barrhaven and to relieve pressure on Kanata the 118 can be greatly expanded and routed down the baseline transitway to Hurdman (which would all ready have the LRT running).

[1overcosc]

The outcome of next week's election is the #1 determiner of whether or not we get our precious LRT money, I think we all know that.

Phase 2 construction is indeed supposed to start immediately after Phase 1 starts running. That's the reason why the city is already doing EAs for Phase 2.

I imagine this BRT could be built in about 2 years (that's how long it takes to build the VIVA Rapidways in Toronto which are a very similar project to what the Baseline BRT is now proposed as), so if construction does indeed start in 2019 we could have this going for 2021.

While Phase 2 construction is scheduled to start in 2018, the Richmond Rd tunnel will be a lot more work than the rest of the line, so while that tunnel project will likely break ground in late 2018, the surface part of the West LRT probably won't break ground until 2021 or so--the same year the Baseline BRT could be finished!

Although the Baseline BRT won't help with west-end suburban commuters going downtown, it will take traffic off the main Transitway for crosstown commuters, so timing it to be ready for the Phase 2 disruptions is ideal. It's the same way the city is timing the O-Train frequency boost to be ready in time for Phase 1 disruptions.

[1overcosc]

Speaking of BRT, anyone have any news on the Bayshore-Moodie Transitway? That segment is shovel ready and I heard that it was supposed to start construction this year, but as far as I know nothing has happened yet.

What of the Kanata Transitway on the north side of the 417 from March Rd to Kanata Ave? My understanding is that its shovel ready too. That's a useful project that will cut travel time through Kanata & provide service to all the new apartment buildings popping up near there, and is extremely cheap from my understanding... it's only $20M last I heard.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The outcome of next week's election is the #1 determiner of whether or not we get our precious LRT money, I think we all know that.

Wynne actually mentioned funding the second phase of Ottawa LRT during the debate specifically. This was in response to Hudak discussing funding for Toronto's subway expansion claiming he was leaving out the rest of the province when it came to mass transit funding.

The original question was from a person asking about the rest of the province having to pay for Toronto's transit. Much as I'd like more funding for other parts of the province the GTA actually does have the biggest chunk of the population and pays the most in taxes so I think the question was a bit ignorant.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

Wynne actually mentioned funding the second phase of Ottawa LRT during the debate specifically. This was in response to Hudak discussing funding for Toronto's subway expansion claiming he was leaving out the rest of the province when it came to mass transit funding.

The original question was from a person asking about the rest of the province having to pay for Toronto's transit. Much as I'd like more funding for other parts of the province the GTA actually does have the biggest chunk of the population and pays the most in taxes so I think the question was a bit ignorant.

The question really should have been a home run for Wynne, since they've designed their program to specifically have two budgets to avoid this perception.

I think the whole debate was a real disappointment. Hudak was too slick for his own good, Wynne came across flustered, and Horwath appeared to be participating in an improv event where she was just handed her character on the way in the door.