The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Nouvellecosse]

A tunnel that will be occupied by vehicles filled with diesel fuel - even if not running on it while in the tunnel - will need more complex ventilation, fire fighting equipment, and evacuation routes since fires can be much more intense. And with the larger number of individual vehicles there is a far greater possibility of beak downs so there needs to be easy access to tow trucks in a bus tunnel.

Really, what it comes down to is high frequency is only a good thing up to a point. As frequency surpasses that point then it becomes a burden rather than an asset. For grade-separated heavy rail, around 24 tphpd is the maximum "comfortable" frequency, depending on the signalling, while for buses or LRT generally anything beyond 30-40 vehicles per hour per direction tends to become too much. Once you get beyond the comfort zone then it's better to increase vehicle size and reduce frequency if possible then to keep adding trips.

It's much better to have a single rail line with 60m consists at 24 tphpd frequency (every 2.5 minutes) than a bus corridor with 30 different bus routes running a 12m bus every 15 minutes for a corridor frequency of a bus every 30 seconds.

As a passenger the LRT is better since the vehicles are smoother and quieter and it's less confusing trying to find your specific route, and you'd have to wait the 15 min for your specific bus route anyway whether waiting downtown or as a transfer elsewhere. But the local bus is going to be more reliable with a shorter route that doesn't have to go all the way downtown and there will be fewer buses serving the transfer point then there would be serving a downtown bus hub making it less confusing. And if you don't feel like waiting or if your bus is late you can call a taxi or get someone to pick you up much easier from your local transit hub than all the way downtown.

As a transit operator the LRT is obviously better since it reduces staff requirements and cuts energy costs. Plus the LRT vehicles are less likely to break down since with EMUs if one motor breaks down, the rest of the consist can keep going rather than the vehicle needing to be towed. Also, an LRT tunnel is less expensive to build and maintain.

Overall I just can't imagine anyone advocating that a city that size try to continue using buses as the backbone of its system. Except for a city whose transit usage is ultra low and not likely to increase.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Actually, it would have been nearly twice the cost. A bus tunnel would have been built twice as wide to accommodate 4 lanes. Furthermore, a more complex exhaust system would have been needed. I know a lot of people say that it would not be necessary with dual mode buses, but I don't think it's that simple. Besides, none of our buses our more than 10 years old, so buying new ones would be a waste.

A 4 lane bus tunnel would have been three times wider than 2 track train tunnel, a single traffic lane is wider than a single train track.

The two-track Confederation Line tunnel is about the same width as 1.5 bus lanes.

[milomilo]

I'm surprised anyone is arguing to keep buses! As has already been said a bus tunnel is a complete non starter of an idea, it would literally be used worldwide as a case study example of a bad decision.

The system Ottawa is actually building seems perfect for the city and an excellent example for other similar cities to follow.

[Beedok]

I do hope they keep a strong bus system for the downtown with the buslanes already there and whatnot. More transit options means fewer cars which is always good.

[eemy]

It would be nice if they implemented BRT on Carling and Rideau in advance of them getting rail transit in the future, just starting with something simple and cheap like iXpress in Waterloo Region. It would benefit greatly from the bus lanes on Albert and Slater, and start making the corridors far more attractive for intensification.

Waterloo Region has actually seen quite a bit of development occurring along the Central Transit Corridor in advance of LRT even being fully approved by regional council with only the pared down BRT in place.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

It would be nice if they implemented BRT on Carling and Rideau in advance of them getting rail transit in the future, just starting with something simple and cheap like iXpress in Waterloo Region. It would benefit greatly from the bus lanes on Albert and Slater, and start making the corridors far more attractive for intensification.

Waterloo Region has actually seen quite a bit of development occurring along the Central Transit Corridor in advance of LRT even being fully approved by regional council with only the pared down BRT in place.

Express buses could do very well on Carling. One thing about Carling, is that it's way too wide! Even at rush hour, it flows quickly. Definitely has no need to be 6 lanes.

They should convert one lane in each direction to bus lanes, and put Waterloo/Kingston style express buses in those lanes. That alone would be almost as good as LRT.

[sportsdude]

Edmonton's Valley Line is a go after the Fed's kick in the final 150 million dollars of funding!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/v...er-ottawa-kicks-in-150-million-1.2654848

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by sportsdude

Edmonton's Valley Line is a go after the Fed's kick in the final 150 million dollars of funding!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/v...er-ottawa-kicks-in-150-million-1.2654848

It's irritating how the federal government always waits until the last minute to commit funding. They have a long standing policy of only funding projects that are tender-ready. The problem with this, is that municipalities have to go through the whole EA & initial design process completely unsure whether or not they can rely on federal $ to support it. The federal government needs to start earmarking exact amounts for each city each time it rolls out a multi-year infra funding program. That allows municipalities to actually plan around it.

[Chadillaccc]

That would be a really good idea. Has that ever been the case in Canada? I think they do that in the states, at least on a state-by-state basis, not city-by-city.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

That would be a really good idea. Has that ever been the case in Canada? I think they do that in the states, at least on a state-by-state basis, not city-by-city.

With the new Building Canada Program, the federal government did earmark amounts per province, but not by city. I don't think we've ever done the latter in Canada.

Wynne's proposed Moving Ontario Forward Program gives two regional earmarks, one for the GTHA, one for the rest of Ontario. Which is mildly disappointing as all the reports & plans leading up to the announcement of the program implied there would be municipality-by-municipality earmarking. Still forgivable as the amount of money flowing would be HUGE.

Ontario's election is nerveracking, because its outcome leads to wildly divergent outlooks on the province's future. A Liberal majority next month would mean Ontario would likely be the most left-wing jurisdiction in the entire continent, while a Hudak majority would result in the most right-wing government in Canada (although not the continent as beating out all the republican states is really hard).

Wynne's Moving Ontario Forward Program would easily be the largest transit investment we've ever seen in the entire history of this country.

With Hudak, we'll get diddly squat aside from projects already under construction (Eglinton-Crosstown LRT, the Confederation Line, and the Kitchener-Waterloo LRT).

This election, I'm casting a ballot in a riding which has one of the tightest races in the entire province, and I'm glad to say I'll be voting Liberal.

[Innsertnamehere]

At least you live in a riding that has a bats chance in hell of changing.. I'm stuck in a strictly PC riding to the bone.

Here's a hint: My MP until 2012 just adored buying $16 glasses of Orange juice.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

At least you live in a riding that has a bats chance in hell of changing.. I'm stuck in a strictly PC riding to the bone.

Here's a hint: My MP until 2012 just adored buying $16 glasses of Orange juice.

Shitty.

My MPP has a name that would make Rob Ford explode in happiness.

Better than last time around, where I voted in Kingston and the Islands. That riding had one of the safest incumbents in all of Ontario in that election.

Funny how I moved from ultra-safe seat to ultra-competitive seat.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

My MPP has a name that would make Rob Ford explode in happiness.

I was going to quip 'McCracken' but took a look at a list and saw this:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_all_detail.do?locale=en&ID=7176

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This election, I'm casting a ballot in a riding which has one of the tightest races in the entire province, and I'm glad to say I'll be voting Liberal.

Really hoping for a Wynne majority there.

I'm looking forward to the next elections in Alberta and Canada. Calgary will likely vote in our first liberal MP (if not 2 or 3), and my new electoral district that I just moved to is one of the potentials for that Also, our next provincial election is pivotal, we risk either losing the province to rightwing nut jobs, easily becoming the most rightwing government the country has seen in decades (Wildrose) likely leading to a collapse in infrastructure spending. Or we will see centrist control continue (by the next election, the PCs will have the longest lasting political dynasty in Canadian history) and one of the top candidates for the leadership is the current transportation minister, who does a fantastic and measured job in the roll, so it could spell great things for our infrastructure future.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I was going to quip 'McCracken' but took a look at a list and saw this:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_all_detail.do?locale=en&ID=7176

That's the one. Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, the only rural seat in all of Ontario currently held by the Liberals, represented by Grant Crack.

When I moved here, I practically exploded with laughter when I found out the name of my new MPP. It's even more amusing to see bumper stickers and such that say "Vote Crack". (Of which I've seen a few lol).

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by sportsdude

Edmonton's Valley Line is a go after the Fed's kick in the final 150 million dollars of funding!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/v...er-ottawa-kicks-in-150-million-1.2654848

While it's nice to see Edmonton get better transit, it certainly won't be rapid like it's current line. Seriously, 13km has 28 stations and is going to take 30 minutes.....that's absurd. Edmonton maybe getting better transit but at that speed it's not getting one foot of rapid transit.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Really hoping for a Wynne majority there.

I'm looking forward to the next elections in Alberta and Canada. Calgary will likely vote in our first liberal MP (if not 2 or 3), and my new electoral district that I just moved to is one of the potentials for that Also, our next provincial election is pivotal, we risk either losing the province to rightwing nut jobs, easily becoming the most rightwing government the country has seen in decades (Wildrose) likely leading to a collapse in infrastructure spending. Or we will see centrist control continue (by the next election, the PCs will have the longest lasting political dynasty in Canadian history) and one of the top candidates for the leadership is the current transportation minister, who does a fantastic and measured job in the roll, so it could spell great things for our infrastructure future.

Sounds like the next AB election could be just as pivotal as the Ontario one. Here's hoping both provinces make the right choice.

Out of curiosity, what your impression of Redford? From what I gathered she was quite a lefty by Alberta PC standards. Think the new PC leader could be left-leaning as well?

[Chadillaccc]

She was a good leader overall, but stole from the taxpayers to further hers and her family's comforts, so she had to go. She even commissioned the construction of a private suite (mansion) in a government building currently being renovated next to the Capitol. Just some really crazy stuff. It is likely that the next PC leader will be left of centre. The PCs are Alberta's Liberal Party, especially with the polarizing effect that the founding of the rightwing (racist, homophobic, psycho) Wildrose Party about a decade ago.

[tkoe]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Sounds like the next AB election could be just as pivotal as the Ontario one. Here's hoping both provinces make the right choice.

Out of curiosity, what your impression of Redford? From what I gathered she was quite a lefty by Alberta PC standards. Think the new PC leader could be left-leaning as well?

While Redford may have campaigned from the left, she was anything but once elected. With the right dominated by the Wildrose and the progressives burned from Redford's heavy-handed labour legislation, it will be difficult for the Tories to win again (especially in light of their current polling numbers).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

While it's nice to see Edmonton get better transit, it certainly won't be rapid like it's current line. Seriously, 13km has 28 stations and is going to take 30 minutes.....that's absurd. Edmonton maybe getting better transit but at that speed it's not getting one foot of rapid transit.

At first glance 28 stations in 13km does sound like a bit much. Ottawa's Confederation Line, after phase 2 is done, will be 27 stations in 34km... although to be fair, that includes a 3.5km stretch through the Greenbelt where there will be no stops (the longest distance without stopping of any Canadian RT possibly? Would be cool if someone could verify this), so let's say 27 stations in 30.5km. Our other metro line, the O-Train, will be 15km with 10 stations, so even fewer stops per km, but that's necessary because O-Train will use diesel vehicles.

But the Confederation Line is intended to be an extremely high volume line that will form the trunk of the entire city's transit system.

I'm not familiar with Edmonton's plans, is this line intended to be more of a heavy-duty line like Confederation or more of a local needs line for that area? If its the latter, then the stop spacing is fine.

And congrats to Edmonton on a major new RT project! That's another to add to our ever growing national list!