Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[elly63]

Thanks Frankie, saved me the trouble of replying on both issues.

Just can't understand why people have wanted this (THF) to fail from the beginning. You never hear about Ottawa being compared to Winnipeg.

The conspiracy wingnut in me (extremely small part) makes me wonder if MLSE hadn't set this up to fail in the first place (no Argos at BMO), to bury the Argos. They must have known they wouldn't get federal money.

[circle33]

Convenient how this Armageddon for the Argos news leaks during a critical part of the labour negotiation process. I don't think this one is over yet.

[Migs]

I thought the city funding and allowing MLSE to do the renos was contingent on it being suitable for football?

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by Migs

I thought the city funding and allowing MLSE to do the renos was contingent on it being suitable for football?

Thats what I thought too

[esquire]

According to the Globe story, the City and the Province are still going ahead with their contribution even if it results in a soccer-only facility.

The federal contribution here is $10M... we're not talking an earth shattering amount of money here. Braley could finance that amount on his credit cards.

This is such a weird scenario... Toronto and Ontario are basically letting MLSE use their contributions to embarrass the feds into forking out their share by pointing a gun at the Argos' heads... "either you give us the $10M, or the Argos get it".

The whole thing is just too dumb for words. I cannot imagine that this small-time brinksmanship will result in anything other than the feds finding some pretext to cough up the money. Toronto will get the 2017 World Caber-tossing Championships or some other asinine one-week event to be hosted at BMO and it will suddenly justify a big federal contribution to "world-class sports infrastructure".

[Berklon]

I think this is for the best anyway. BMO Field should remain soccer-only - that's how it was made, and really that's what soccer fans want. I know a lot of TFC fans that hate the idea of sharing the stadium. There are only 5 MLS teams sharing a stadium currently... and 2 of them are planning to move to their own soccer-only stadium.

At the same time, the Argos should have their own stadium as well. It'll give the best experience for football.

[elly63]

Stadium on track to be ready for Ticats home opener: builder
Drew Edwards scratchingpost.thespec.com 05/27/2014

The new Hamilton stadium is still scheduled to open in time for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats first home game of the 2014 CFL season, the builder told a city hall committee on Tuesday.

“We're on track to meet the July 26th date,” said Gareth Barkey, site supervisor for Ontario Sports Solutions, the consortium responsible for building the $145 million stadium, informed the Pan Am Stadium precinct committee. “We are using every available resource and have every confidence that we will be able to get the facility ready.”

In late April, Ontario Sports Solutions announced that they expected the stadium to be in a state of “substantial completion” in time for the game versus the Ottawa Redblacks. In a letter to Infrastructure Ontario – the provincial agency responsible for construction – the consortium outlined a number of items they expected would not be completed, including a section of stands slated to hold more than 200 fans and the main concessions kitchen.

But the stands, along with several other smaller items that were behind schedule, are now slated to be finished on time.

“We have seen some significant progress in the last month.” Barkey said.

One area that remains a concern is the main concession kitchen. Ticats president Glenn Gibson said the team has already informed food and beverage provider Levy Restaurants of the challenges that may lie ahead.

“We've talked about the 'what ifs' and they are already working on some back up plans,” Gibson said. “In one form or another, there will be beer available – no question about that.”

Gibson said the team still has an as-yet-announced back up plan in place in case the new stadium isn't on time.

“We take our lead from the builder and we're on site on a regular basis so our confidence level is very high,” Gibson said. “We've got it to the point that we can turn and act on it rather quickly but it seems rather unlikely at this point that we'll need it.”

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I think this is for the best anyway. BMO Field should remain soccer-only - that's how it was made, and really that's what soccer fans want. I know a lot of TFC fans that hate the idea of sharing the stadium. There are only 5 MLS teams sharing a stadium currently... and 2 of them are planning to move to their own soccer-only stadium.

At the same time, the Argos should have their own stadium as well. It'll give the best experience for football.

While I agree with much of your sentiment, BMO Field or the original idea was not meant to be soccer only. I've been following this since the original drawings from the CSA when Kevan Pipe was in charge (long time ago).

Toronto City Council minutes have the stadium as supposed to being football ready.

This latest charade is another in the long line of MLSE shenanigans that make me hate Rogers and MLSE even more. If TSN wasn't such a good supporter of the CFL I'd include Bell in that vitriol as well.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

The whole thing is just too dumb for words. I cannot imagine that this small-time brinksmanship will result in anything other than the feds finding some pretext to cough up the money. Toronto will get the 2017 World Caber-tossing Championships or some other asinine one-week event to be hosted at BMO and it will suddenly justify a big federal contribution to "world-class sports infrastructure".

I don't think so because I thought the excuse for fed money would be holding the Pan Am rugby 7s at BMO and that is why the rush was on to complete the first phase of construction. Obviously that meant nothing to the feds. God I hate MLSE!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Thats what I thought too

If the city and the province allows and contributes to this while screwing the Argos, well...think bad thoughts.

[elly63]

Just for fun, how about planning the new Braley stadium. He is one of the biggest developers in Ontario and has decided he wants to do this. He's a well connected billionaire with construction companies and ties to entertainment organizational resources. We know if he were to do this, it wouldn't be a stadium alone but hotels and retail.

We have two new beautiful 33k stadiums for 200-300 million, what would be the cost of an iconic 25k stadium? Another option, could he rework the York deal and "gift" them a new stadium replacing the small but new Pan Am stadium?

[elly63]

Argonauts’ move to BMO Field ‘on hold,’ MLSE says
MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke says football reno at Toronto FC home “may be a year later than initially expected” with federal, provincial funding uncertain
Daniel Dale City Hall, The Star May 27 2014

The chief executives of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment and the Toronto Argonauts say the CFL team might still move to BMO Field, though an early financial hurdle has not yet been overcome.

In a Tuesday interview, MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke rejected a newspaper report that said the company has “cancelled” its plan to renovate the soccer stadium and allow the football club to play there after its Rogers Centre lease expires in 2017.

Leiweke said the relocation plan is not dead — just “on hold”as MLSE attempts to secure $10 million from the provincial government, which is in the middle of an election campaign, and $10 million from the federal government.

Because the money has not arrived, MLSE is now asking city council to endorse a change to the renovation agreement that was approved by council only last month on the condition of an Argos move.

The agreement was for a $120-million project to be paid for by MLSE ($90 million), the city ($10 million, to be repaid by MLSE with interest), the federal government ($10 million) and the provincial government ($10 million).

Leiweke said MLSE still faces pressure to add about 8,000 permanent seats to the city-owned stadium in time for the Pan Am Games next summer. So the company wants council to quickly sign off on a scaled-back renovation which would add those seats and build a roof.

The new plan would require the $90 million in MLSE money and $10 million from the city. “If and when” the additional $20 million arrives, Leiweke said, MLSE would then do the work to accommodate the Argos and 10,000 extra temporary seats for major events such as the NHL Winter Classic.

“There is a path,” Leiweke said. “It may be a year later than initially expected.” He added: “There is no stress or tension here, nor is there any disagreement between us and the governments.”

“We still believe that the project will eventually move forward as it was always anticipated,” said Argos CEO Chris Rudge.

Ottawa says it will not provide funding for sports stadiums. Leiweke countered that he is asking instead for a $10 million contribution to the “big events” the expanded stadium could host, tourist draws such as the Winter Classic, Grey Cup and MLS All-Star Game.

“Our government has been clear that it would not fund professional sport infrastructure,” said Vincent Rabault, press secretary for federal infrastructure minister Denis Lebel. “This decision is being implemented uniformly across the country. That being said, amateur sport infrastructure is now eligible for funding under the Gas Tax Fund.”

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by elly63

Argonauts’ move to BMO Field ‘on hold,’ MLSE says
'...That being said, amateur sport infrastructure is now eligible for funding under the Gas Tax Fund.”

Say what?

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

They need 27 days to install the turf

http://www.fieldturf.com/en/artificial-turf/construction-and-installation

So you think pro football is going to be played on synthetic turf that has just been laid down without the infill being worked in and allowed to settle?

Might as well just let them play in the parking lot. That's absolute bare minimum installation. If the infill isn't given time to settle and be worked into the "grass," there will be a lot of pressure put on the players knee and hip joints before the leaves turn.

When my football club installed FieldTurf in 2010/11, our rep told us that we should allow a calendar season for installation and field prep for it to be playable. We did, and the turf was great from day one. I had the comparison of the old Winnipeg Stadium when they installed it in 2003, I played on it the summer after and the infill pellets were right at the surface, it was awful, like standing on a mattress with no give.

And I'm not saying Hamilton is better or worse than Ottawa, just simply commenting on the update/photos posted.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by elly63

The conspiracy wingnut in me (extremely small part) makes me wonder if MLSE hadn't set this up to fail in the first place (no Argos at BMO), to bury the Argos. They must have known they wouldn't get federal money.

I don't know about burying the Argos, but it certainly calls into question how serious they were/are about accommodating the CFL.

You'd think MLSE could easily finance the shortfall, paid back through a stadium fee on Argo tickets (whether they own the team or someone else buys them from Braley)

Typical sports ownership powerplay.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

So you think pro football is going to be played on synthetic turf that has just been laid down without the infill being worked in and allowed to settle?

Well - yes - that's what the turf company says. And I'll guess they've got some pretty decent experience with regards to time lines for installation

In less than 30 days you’ll go from an empty base to a lush playing field.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Well - yes - that's what the turf company says. And I'll guess they've got some pretty decent experience with regards to time lines for installation

And they want to move product.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by elly63

While I agree with much of your sentiment, BMO Field or the original idea was not meant to be soccer only. I've been following this since the original drawings from the CSA when Kevan Pipe was in charge (long time ago).

Toronto City Council minutes have the stadium as supposed to being football ready.

This latest charade is another in the long line of MLSE shenanigans that make me hate Rogers and MLSE even more. If TSN wasn't such a good supporter of the CFL I'd include Bell in that vitriol as well.

And yet they still poured the concrete and sealed the framing for the stands...

Argos just need to go to the suburbs where they belong. Maybe they can team up with Ryerson for a Stadium as I'm trying to think whom they haven't burned bridges with yet still. Lol.

Now also I think this was set by MLSE to fail. The Argos don't make MLSE money, yes they get rent money but they jeopardize TFC money base which makes more money in one game probably then the Argos do all year.

[elly63]

Hmm, who do I believe, building site supervisors and product engineers whose job it is to oversee projects day after day, or Internet forum posters. That's a tough one, I'll get back to that when I finish watching the 5 minute YouTube "documentary" about the fake moon landing that was filmed at night on the grassy knoll.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by osmo

but they jeopardize TFC money base which makes more money in one game probably then the Argos do all year.

Yeah that's funny since the Argos average game attendance has been better for every year of TFCs existence except one, I believe. And that was by a couple hundred people IIRC. And we won't even go into TV ratings.