Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Stenar]

Black is NOT one of the University of Utah's colors.

If you don't believe me, read the 2013 Utah Football Media Guide: http://http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schoo...4/misc_non_event/13-media-guide-full.pdf

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

The naming of the line the black line is very purposeful, the same reason the Red Line was named the Red Line. The naming of the red line wasn't just a nifty coincidence. Black is the third color of the University of Utah. Red/White and Black. If they stuck to primary colors, Red, Yellow, Blue, then the Green line would be the Yellow line and UTA would be out of color options, and couldn't add anymore lines.

I think there are benefits to both the airport alignment and the SL Central Alignment, and for the time being both options take riders to and through downtown, and both options connect with Front Runner. While the airport route connects students and fans to north temple and the Airport, routing it to SL Central connects it to many additional people as well. Taking the line to SL Central could really activate life in the Depot/Gateway District with students wanting to live downtown and have convenient access to trax, it could help to spur more possible development in that area. The same can be said about the Airport route as well, however it doesn't necessarily provide "downtown" type living out along N. Temple.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

I'd like to pitch in on the black line (as someone who would use it). First off, WHY ARE YOU CALLING IT THE BLACK LINE? what are the pseudoprimary colors? Black is not one of them yellow works much better and resorting to non-primar/secondary colors doesn't fit with the naming system. Secondly, it SHOULD NOT BYPASS DOWNTOWN. AT ALL. The purpose of the line is to connect the U to the airport, downtown, and a frontrunner. Bypassing downtown would reduce ridership. The system is also here to connect visitors from the airport back up to the U. Also, it is meant to increase downtown frequency to 5 min for easier mobility. Would rerouting the *cough* yellow line *cough* to slcntrl only connects the u to a frontrunner.

I don't see any reason to stick to primary colors. We've already moved away from primary colors with green, anyway.

[Stenar]

Main St. used to be the main bus corridor with almost every bus line in the valley ending up there, there were only a handful that went on State then. Because of TRAX, a lot of those bus lines feed into TRAX and don't come downtown any more, and Main St. is too narrow. I for one don't like Main becoming a transit mall where only buses can go.

Originally Posted by jubguy3

First off, thank you for the correction about the 11st east minority. From what I heard there was a group of people who wanted it up 21st but I looked it up and apparently that group was small. Secondly, i still think yellow fits better with the color scheme. Most other transit systems that have a RGB color designation with those three colors have added yellow or gold to the system (atlanta, portland, etc).

About the foothill BRT - i imagine it heading up lincoln highway in to park city as an actual frequent service to and from summit county (to the U) which could also mean UTA could a) transform stadium in to an important transfer hub or b) add rapid transit up mario capecci and down north campus drive and 2nd south (probably not, as it would have some redundancy). I think that foothill has a lot of potential as an arterial and I'd like to see it upzoned and its suburban elements (i.e. whatever the mall on 13th is called) redone to be a walkable community for students to get access to the university easily. The bus on foothill already is not very good in that it has little frequency and does not run the length of wasatch after foothill to act as a park and ride connector for the wasatch park and rides (39th, 62nd, maybe to 94th/20th?). Foothill has some undeveloped parcels and in addition to needing upgrades (due to congestion), a BRT could get wedged in a project plan so as to make foothill more pedestrian friendly but also less congested.

Again, I disagree that the goal of transit should be redevelopment. Why not serve preexisting communities with better transit and initiatives to encourage transit (i.e. free months) when we encourage a shittily repackaged version of sprawl for transit (i.e. 5600 west corridor... WHY SO FAR AWAY?) redevelopment? The sugarhouse project, main street trax (and otherwise downtown service), future DT streetcar, and salt lake central are good examples of using what we have and making it better for the preexisting communities. We can spur transit development anywhere and I think where we already have well designed, historic and also non historic communities with existing stores, shops, and parks is the best place to boost (smaller but higher quality) development.

Since I'd like to fit one more thing in to this post, id like to ask you about what you would think of turning main street and 2nd in to a pseudo transit mall? You could move all bus service on state street to main street (as well as buses that turn left or right on second before main street up to main street and continue on their regular routes) and have main street gain status as both a trax (kinda) hub and a transit mall? You could run some of the buses on the trax right of way if scheduling permits (i.e. 4xx buses during rush hour could be kept on state street) and just use the trax stops as bus stops? 2nd south, with a future streetcar, could also get upgraded from just a bus arterial to a transit arterial, making transfers easier and the transit system more centralized (in addition to SLCS). Do you think there would be logistical issues with this?

edit about foothill - the whole foothill corridor could get student housing with minimal condemnation of existing single family housing

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Main St. used to be the main bus corridor with almost every bus line in the valley ending up there, there were only a handful that went on State then. Because of TRAX, a lot of those bus lines feed into TRAX and don't come downtown any more, and Main St. is too narrow. I for one don't like Main becoming a transit mall where only buses can go.

Ok, simple color theory lesson: the true primary colors are RGB, presumably like your computer screen. We could start to include orange like other transit systems (dart), if that float your boat... My point is that black doesn't fit in with the primary and secondary colors that other systems use. I don't understand why its that complicated.

On to main street- I mean a pseudo transit mall where main is open to reduced traffic (but to still keep main street vital) and for local buses excluding the state capitol shuttle and rush hour inter county buses. They could use the TRAX lane with limited service to provide easier TRAX transfers. Auto traffic would still be allowed.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Ok, simple color theory lesson: the true primary colors are RGB, presumably like your computer screen. We could start to include orange like other transit systems (dart), if that float your boat... My point is that black doesn't fit in with the primary and secondary colors that other systems use. I don't understand why its that complicated.

On to main street- I mean a pseudo transit mall where main is open to reduced traffic (but to still keep main street vital) and for local buses excluding the state capitol shuttle and rush hour inter county buses. They could use the TRAX lane with limited service to provide easier TRAX transfers. Auto traffic would still be allowed.

RGB is not the "true primary." RGB is an additive color model. RYB is a subtractive color model. Modern science says that cyan, magenta and yellow are the best primary colors, which are hues of red, yellow and blue.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Ok, simple color theory lesson: the true primary colors are RGB, presumably like your computer screen. We could start to include orange like other transit systems (dart), if that float your boat... My point is that black doesn't fit in with the primary and secondary colors that other systems use. I don't understand why its that complicated.

You are WAY over-thinking this. Also, the primary colors are Red, Yellow and Blue... like in the elementary school song. RGB is a color system for monitors and televisions because they emit light rather than reflect light like CMYK or Pantone in print colors. The most important thing is that the lines have contrast to each other, and to the background.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by DMTower

You are WAY over-thinking this. Also, the primary colors are Red, Yellow and Blue... like in the elementary school song. RGB is a color system for monitors and televisions because they emit light rather than reflect light like CMYK or Pantone in print colors. The most important thing is that the lines have contrast to each other, and to the background.

Which is another reason yellow isn't a good choice, unless it's a golden yellow.

[ajiuO]

Why would you ever want to call a line the golden yellow line?? That is just ridiculous..

Who cares if it's primary colors or Black or white.. I would think that they would want to start out by using distinctively different colors, regardless as to if they are reflective or absorbiv primaries... Yellow would be the obvious next choice.. Simply because it looks very different than the other colors.. Black would also be a good choice.

Orange would look a little too close to red... Purple would look a little too close to blue... With that said.. I think that most people are still capable of distinguishing those colors.. And they will eventually be used

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Black is NOT one of the University of Utah's colors.

If you don't believe me, read the 2013 Utah Football Media Guide: http://http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schoo...4/misc_non_event/13-media-guide-full.pdf

Ok so it might not be "official" but it's on the field for many games, and on nearly every uniform that they wear during the football season. Maybe we can agree that it's an unofficial adopted color, and much more of a University color than Yellow.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by DMTower

You are WAY over-thinking this. Also, the primary colors are Red, Yellow and Blue... like in the elementary school song. RGB is a color system for monitors and televisions because they emit light rather than reflect light like CMYK or Pantone in print colors. The most important thing is that the lines have contrast to each other, and to the background.

I honestly don't understand why anyone here doesn't see yellow fitting in with the current color system better than black. Honestly, it's really simple.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Why would you ever want to call a line the golden yellow line?? That is just ridiculous..

Who cares if it's primary colors or Black or white.. I would think that they would want to start out by using distinctively different colors, regardless as to if they are reflective or absorbiv primaries... Yellow would be the obvious next choice.. Simply because it looks very different than the other colors.. Black would also be a good choice.

Orange would look a little too close to red... Purple would look a little too close to blue... With that said.. I think that most people are still capable of distinguishing those colors.. And they will eventually be used

And to add to this nearly every other transit system has opted for yellow or orange rather than a university color or a local color because the point of trax is to move people, not to attend the U games...

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by DMTower

You are WAY over-thinking this. Also, the primary colors are Red, Yellow and Blue... like in the elementary school song. RGB is a color system for monitors and televisions because they emit light rather than reflect light like CMYK or Pantone in print colors. The most important thing is that the lines have contrast to each other, and to the background.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model

No.

http://www.xaraxone.com/webxealot/workbook02/color_wheel_4.jpg

Wow what? And yellow fits in the best (even out of rby color system) because pink and cyan are stupid colors and for rby, yellow just feels nicer (no purple- confusion with frontrunner).

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Why would you ever want to call a line the golden yellow line?? That is just ridiculous..

Who cares if it's primary colors or Black or white.. I would think that they would want to start out by using distinctively different colors, regardless as to if they are reflective or absorbiv primaries... Yellow would be the obvious next choice.. Simply because it looks very different than the other colors.. Black would also be a good choice.

Orange would look a little too close to red... Purple would look a little too close to blue... With that said.. I think that most people are still capable of distinguishing those colors.. And they will eventually be used

Obviously, you wouldn't call the line "golden yellow," but you'd make the color more goldenrod colored so it shows up on white. You'd still call it YELLOW.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Ok so it might not be "official" but it's on the field for many games, and on nearly every uniform that they wear during the football season. Maybe we can agree that it's an unofficial adopted color, and much more of a University color than Yellow.

They have one blackout game per season. It's to get fans extra psyched for a difficult opponent.

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model

No.

http://www.xaraxone.com/webxealot/workbook02/color_wheel_4.jpg

Wow what? And yellow fits in the best (even out of rby color system) because pink and cyan are stupid colors and for rby, yellow just feels nicer (no purple- confusion with frontrunner).

Honestly people, it's a stupid freaking color of a line, this is to everyone not just jubguy3, whether they color the line pink, yellow, black, or polka dot, it isn't going to change who rides the line, it won't change whether a skyscraper is built next to the line, it won't change anything except people making stupid petty arguments over why they like one color over another, congrats on having an opinion.

With regard to primary and secondary colors y'all are arguing apples and oranges, based on different theories, none of which again matters for this board.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

And to add to this nearly every other transit system has opted for yellow or orange rather than a university color or a local color because the point of trax is to move people, not to attend the U games...

Nope, TRAX is to move people to games, which is one of the largest reasons people ride TRAX. Also, the University of Utah is the second largest commuter destination in Utah after downtown Salt Lake. AND Yellow is a lame color.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

I honestly don't understand why anyone here doesn't see yellow fitting in with the current color system better than black. Honestly, it's really simple.

It's true that black is a shade, not an actual color. Again, you are WAY over-thinking this. The point is contrast between the lines, not which color model you are using.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model

No.

No, what? Everything I said was completely accurate. Quoted from your link:

"The main purpose of the RGB color model is for the sensing, representation, and display of images in electronic systems, such as televisions and computers, though it has also been used in conventional photography. Before the electronic age, the RGB color model already had a solid theory behind it, based in human perception of colors."

"Typical RGB input devices are color TV and video cameras, image scanners, and digital cameras. Typical RGB output devices are TV sets of various technologies (CRT, LCD, plasma, etc.), computer and mobile phone displays, video projectors, multicolor LED displays, and large screens such as JumboTron. Color printers, on the other hand, are not RGB devices, but subtractive color devices (typically CMYK color model)."

Red Green and Blue are primary colors only within the RGB color model, which only has specific uses. There are several other color models, each of which have their own different primary colors. Why don't you check out RYB while you're looking into it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RYB_color_model

This is one of the most famous subway maps ever designed (Massimo Vignelli). You can see it uses a wide range of colors (including a tint of black) and secondary colors as well.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Nope, TRAX is to move people to games, which is one of the largest reasons people ride TRAX. Also, the University of Utah is the second largest commuter destination in Utah after downtown Salt Lake. AND Yellow is a lame color.

Yellow is also hard on the eyes.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by DMTower

No, what? Everything I said was completely accurate. Quoted from your link:

"The main purpose of the RGB color model is for the sensing, representation, and display of images in electronic systems, such as televisions and computers, though it has also been used in conventional photography. Before the electronic age, the RGB color model already had a solid theory behind it, based in human perception of colors."

"Typical RGB input devices are color TV and video cameras, image scanners, and digital cameras. Typical RGB output devices are TV sets of various technologies (CRT, LCD, plasma, etc.), computer and mobile phone displays, video projectors, multicolor LED displays, and large screens such as JumboTron. Color printers, on the other hand, are not RGB devices, but subtractive color devices (typically CMYK color model)."

Red Green and Blue are primary colors only within the RGB color model, which only has specific uses. There are several other color models, each of which have their own different primary colors. Why don't you check out RYB while you're looking into it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RYB_color_model

This is one of the most famous subway maps ever designed (Massimo Vignelli). You can see it uses a wide range of colors (including a tint of black) and secondary colors as well.

That is a really nice subway map, but it also reinforces my point - there are a lot of secondary shades we could choose before picking black as a color for the line... its all up to UTA anyways. I still stand by my opinion (seriously guys, find a transit system that has four lines and uses black as one of the line colors. Try. Now find one with yellow or all secondary/primary colors and no monochromatic designations. It just looks weird and out of place having black as a line.

"yellow is hard on the eyes"
maybe for a powerpoint, but apparently other transportation map makers don't see it that way. Besides, printed yellow can be easily modified to have a pleasing tone.

Another argument for yellow - three letter abbreviations. BCK- back? BLK might work but it looks a little wordy. YLW rolls off the tongue nicely and looks, well, like the word yellow.