The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[ssiguy]

Actually it was YVR of all people that basically set the technology design, at least by default. Officially they didn't care what the actual technology itself was but at the same time wanted wide 3 meter trains for ease of use for luggage and wanted the trains to have luggage racks. They also had a strict guideline on fast the train must be from YVR to Waterfront.

They basically had the city and province over a barrel as they were not going to fork over their portion of the bill without getting what they wanted and they knew Campbell was going to build this line hell or high water for his Olympics. Well the width of the trains negated any of the current LIM SkyTrain and the time demands got rid of any at grade route so voila..............standard Metro trains.

YVR didn't state the technology but with their speed and train demands there really was only one technology available to Translink. The funny thing is, is that the trains never did get the luggage racks. Vancouverites also got screwed because the province swore up and down on the bible that eventhough the stations were small they could be easily extended to 60 meters to accommodate 3 standard Metro cars but they lied and can only be extended to 590 meters. Just like they lied when the said they would not cut and cover in the Cambie Village corridor.

[J.OT13]

Confederation Line update:

Construction Summary
Week of May 11



Central Segment

Tunnel

West Portal (Jawbreaker)

• The roadheader continues excavating the full face of the Lyon Station Cavern in drifts[i], under Queen Street and Lyon Street.
• Tunnel reinforcements and shotcreting are ongoing in the station cavern.

Central Shaft (Chewrocka)

• Installation of the first umbrella was completed for Parliament Station cavern, as mining progresses in the station cavern.
• The roadheader is now past Bank Street (under Queen Street).

Picture of the Roadheader progressing from central shaft


East Portal (Crocodile Rouge)

• Tunneling works advance as mining continues through concrete.
• Twenty-four hour tunneling recommences as installation of the new initial support occurs to allow mining of the full tunnel face to resume mid-month.

Tunneling works progress at East Portal


East Segment

Maintenance and Storage Facility (MSF)

• Utilities excavation continues.
• Excavation progresses on the MSF building foundation.
• Signage and detour notifications have been installed in preparation of the upcoming full closure of Belfast Road scheduled to begin May 20, 2014.

Civic Works

Highway 417 Roadwork, Widening and Structure Rehabilitation

Roadworks

• Boring and sewer work progresses on the north and south side of the highway.
• From St. Laurent Boulevard to Vanier Parkway, drilling of piles, pouring and panel work progresses for the sound wall footings along the south side of the highway, while on the north side grading continues and drilling for the noise wall begins.

Equipment installation for electrical boring


Signage

• The three message signs have been installed; final construction and electrical works to power the signs continue.

Structures

• Widening, reconstruction and rehabilitation of various bridge structures along the highway continues to progress visibly.

Hurdman Bridge

• Preparation for pouring of the new deck occurs on the north side of the structure, as reconstruction advances.
• Formwork[ii] and rebar installation continue at the ends of the deck on the north side of the bridge as formwork and support brackets installation occur on the south side deck.

Hurdman Bridge parapet wall construction advances


St. Laurent Overpass

• Widening and rehabilitation progresses on the south side of the structure with chipping of the deck ends.
• Work continues on the roadway protection wall at the south side of the overpass.
• Shoulder and on-ramp reconstruction advance.

Shoulder reconstruction progresses at St. Laurent overpass


Vanier Parkway Overpass– work advances in preparation of the rapid bridge replacement scheduled for fall 2014.

• Work progresses in the staging area as girder installation begins, which will be followed by installation and forming of the new deck in the next few weeks.
• Reconstruction work on a section of the westbound on-ramp s completed this week, while work on the eastbound on-ramp continues.
• Refacing work continues on the abutments as overpass rehabilitation progresses.

Shoulder reconstruction advances at Vanier Parkway overpass


Belfast Road Underpass– work advances in preparation for conventional demolition of the existing structure and reconstruction of the new bridge.

• Forming of the new wing wall[iii] occurs this week.
• Piling occurs on the new retaining wall as temporary rehabilitation work advances on the existing structure.

Lees Avenue Underpass – work advances in preparation of the rapid bridge replacement.

• Construction of the new bridge components is ongoing in the staging area, including forming of the new deck.

Deck formwork continues at Lees Avenue staging area


Coventry Pedestrian Footbridge– pier and abutment work progresses in preparation of the superstructure installation scheduled for June.

• As work has advanced on the north abutment, extension of the south abutment footing occurs this week.

Structural steel for the Coventry Pedestrian footbridge


Stay on-track with us and follow our progress by visiting the sections related to each area of construction at the top of this webpage.

[i]Drifts refer to the sections of the wider station cavern that are excavated in sequence as per diagram below.
[ii] Formwork refers to a mold in which concrete is poured.
[iii] Wing wall refers to a wall at the abutment of a bridge, extending beyond the bridge to restrain soil to unnatural slopes.

and

]Construction Summary
Week of May 18



Central Segment

Tunnel

West Portal (Jawbreaker)

• The roadheader continues excavating the full face of the Lyon Station Cavern in drifts[i], under Queen Street and Lyon Street.
• Drilling of the support umbrella and shotcreting begins.

Central Shaft (Chewrocka)

• Installation of the second umbrella of Parliament Station cavern begins this week, which will be followed by excavation and return east to complete excavating the bottom, refered to as the bench. Once bench is mined, the mud slab will be poured. These activities will be ongoing for the coming weeks.

Drilling the umbrella (entry from Central Shaft)


East Portal (Crocodile Rouge)

• Installation of the second support has been completed.
• Twenty-four hour tunneling continues in the full tunnel face.

For weekly updates on tunnel excavation progress please visit the Roadheader page.

East Segment

Maintenance and Storage Facility (MSF)

Construction activities ramp up at the MSF as long-term closure of Belfast Road south of Tremblay to Trainyards Drive begins.

• Utilities and storm sewer work continues.
• Excavation progresses on the MSF building foundation.
• Mobilization of equipment, installation of trailers, fencing, decommissioning of utilities and stripping of asphalt will begin this week.

Pouring of foundation walls at the MSF


Civic Works

Highway 417 Roadwork, Widening and Structure Rehabilitation

Roadworks

• Boring and sewer work progresses on the north and south side of the highway.
• From St. Laurent Boulevard to Vanier Parkway, drilling of piles, pouring and panel work progresses for the sound wall footings along the south side of the highway. On the north side grading continues and drilling for the noise wall begins.
• Roadway construction continues and includes excavation, grading, casting of concrete barrier walls and paving along the north and south sides of Highway 417 from St. Laurent Boulevard to Nicholas Street.
• Installation of high mast light poles occurs.

Casting in place of concrete barrier walls along south side of Highway 417


Preparation to pour pole base for luminaires along south side of highway


Signage

• The three message signs have been installed; final construction and electrical works to power the signs is ongoing.

Structures

Widening, reconstruction and rehabilitation of various bridge structures along the highway continues to progress visibly.

Hurdman Bridge

• Pouring of the new deck occurs on the north side of the structure as reconstruction advances.
• Installation of rebar and rails continue on the south side deck.

Hurdman Bridge pouring of north deck


St. Laurent Overpass

• Widening and rehabilitation on the south side of the structure progresses with chipping of the deck ends.
• Abutment work continues and includes backfilling and pouring of ballast wall[ii].
• Work continues on the roadway protection wall at the south side of the overpass.
• Shoulder and on-ramp reconstruction are ongoing.

Chipping of deck ends continues at St. Laurent Boulevard overpass


Chipping of deck ends continues at St. Laurent Boulevard overpass


Vanier Parkway Overpass– work advances in preparation of the rapid bridge replacement scheduled for fall 2014.

• Work progresses in the staging area as girder installation continues. Installation and forming[iii] of the new deck will follow in the next few weeks.
• Overnight roadwork continues on the on-ramps.
• Forming and concrete pouring for wing walls[iv] occurs this week.

Grading operations continue at the Vanier Parkway N-E on-ramp


Belfast Road Underpass– work advances in preparation for conventional demolition of the existing structure and reconstruction of the new bridge.

• Forming of the parapet wall[v] begins.
• Piling continues for the retaining wall as temporary rehabilitation work advances on the existing structure.
• Variable message signs indicating upcoming closure on Belfast Road, north of Tremblay Road to Coventry Road, have been installed and will powered this week.

Lees Avenue Underpass – work visibly progresses in the staging area in preparation of the rapid bridge replacement.

• Construction of the new bridge components is ongoing in the staging area, including forming of temporary footings for the existing structure.
• Rebar installation occurs on the new bridge deck.
• Preparatory work continues in advance of existing structure removal by rapid removal during a two-day period on June 21 and 22, 2014.

Rebar installation on new deck at Lees Avenue staging area

Coventry Pedestrian Footbridge – pier and abutment work progresses in preparation of the superstructure installation.

• Work has advanced on the north abutment, extension of the south abutment footing occurs this week, and includes forming as well as pouring of south side abutment walls.

Stay on-track with us and follow our progress by visiting the sections related to each area of construction at the top of this webpage.

[i]Drifts refer to the sections of the wider station cavern that are excavated in sequence as per diagram below.
[ii] Ballast wall refers to a wall built on the top of an abutment
[iii] Formwork refers to a mold in which concrete is poured.
[iv] Wing wall refers to a wall at the abutment of a bridge, extending beyond the bridge to restrain soil to unnatural slopes.
[v] Parapet wall refers to a protective barrier on the side of a bridge.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

You're right, LRT can be grade separated just like Ottawa is doing, but I've just gotten used to "metro" meaning grade separated and "LRT" being on the surface. Lots of people like to point out that the Skytrain is LRT, which it is, but at least in Vancouver I've noticed LRT to mean only at grade.

I disagree that surface LRT would be appropriate in Richmond. But I've made my views clear in the past that I don't think surface LRT is appropriate anywhere, so I'm not going to revisit that.

As far as S-Bahning goes, I think Vancouver's nodes are all close enough to each other that it's not necessary as of right now. But I think it would be a good idea in the future to help relieve capacity, so say mirroring the current Expo Line but only stopping at Waterfront, Commercial-Broadway, Metrotown, New Westminster and Surrey Central.

years ago, maybe the 90's, they ran express trains on the expo line with limited stops between downtown and surrey, it wasn't faster but it meant for less crowded cars and people could get a seat to surrey

[1overcosc]

To summarize Confederation Line update, we're about 20% done for the tunnel excavation, and the future rail yard is now under construction (building foundation going in). We're making good time! (Projected completion is in 2018).

The reason for all the highway widening updates included in, is because the LRT contractor (RTG) is also widening a 5 km stretch of Highway 417 from 6 lanes to 8 lanes at the same time as the LRT work, because the city is planning to use those two new lanes for temporary BRT service to replace the Transitway when the Transitway is shut down for LRT conversion. After the Confederation Line opens, those new lanes will then be turned over to traffic.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

years ago, maybe the 90's, they ran express trains on the expo line with limited stops between downtown and surrey, it wasn't faster but it meant for less crowded cars and people could get a seat to surrey

Was frequency lower? I can't see that working now without creating traffic jams.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

To summarize Confederation Line update, we're about 20% done for the tunnel excavation, and the future rail yard is now under construction (building foundation going in). We're making good time! (Projected completion is in 2018).

The reason for all the highway widening updates included in, is because the LRT contractor (RTG) is also widening a 5 km stretch of Highway 417 from 6 lanes to 8 lanes at the same time as the LRT work, because the city is planning to use those two new lanes for temporary BRT service to replace the Transitway when the Transitway is shut down for LRT conversion. After the Confederation Line opens, those new lanes will then be turned over to traffic.

Too bad those new lanes couldn't stay Bus Lanes.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Too bad those new lanes couldn't stay Bus Lanes.

There wouldn't be much point to retaining bus lanes after the Confederation Line is built as there will be no more BRT traffic into downtown.

In any event, that section of the 417 needs 8 general traffic lanes, very badly. It's by far the most congested section of the 417 and traffic counts have warranted 8 lanes for almost 20 years now.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Too bad those new lanes couldn't stay Bus Lanes.

They will likely be turned into carpool lanes.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Actually it was YVR of all people that basically set the technology design, at least by default. Officially they didn't care what the actual technology itself was but at the same time wanted wide 3 meter trains for ease of use for luggage and wanted the trains to have luggage racks. They also had a strict guideline on fast the train must be from YVR to Waterfront.

They basically had the city and province over a barrel as they were not going to fork over their portion of the bill without getting what they wanted and they knew Campbell was going to build this line hell or high water for his Olympics. Well the width of the trains negated any of the current LIM SkyTrain and the time demands got rid of any at grade route so voila..............standard Metro trains.

YVR didn't state the technology but with their speed and train demands there really was only one technology available to Translink. The funny thing is, is that the trains never did get the luggage racks. Vancouverites also got screwed because the province swore up and down on the bible that eventhough the stations were small they could be easily extended to 60 meters to accommodate 3 standard Metro cars but they lied and can only be extended to 590 meters. Just like they lied when the said they would not cut and cover in the Cambie Village corridor.

Do you ever get tired of stating the same misinformation all the time? Honestly, how many times have myself and other forum members corrected your misinformation, just for you to disappear for a month or so and then again re-state the same bs with no proof again.

When did the province ever promise 60 meter platforms? Please, show me a source!

The plan was always 40 meter platforms expandable to 50 meters.

Earlier you were claiming that a third car could no longer be added, also false!

The 40 meters allows for a two car train. The 10 meter extensions (to 50 meters) allows a third C car to be added in the middle of the 2 car pairs = a 3 car train.

Before you state another incorrect fact all the train doors will open on the platform with just the front / ends of the trains overhanging (not the door areas!).

Also the Canada Line is comparable in speed to essentially all standard heavy metro systems.

It only feels slower due to the relatively fast speed of skytrain and its insanely fast acceleration.

So in reality, the Canada Line is not slow, it is actually very standard, it is just that skytrain is very fast.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They will likely be turned into carpool lanes.

They won't be. The MTO studied HOV lanes in Ottawa, and concluded that while HOV lanes are a great idea west of Highway 416, they are a horrible idea anywhere east of there, because the exists are too closely spaced. (Closer exits = more weaving = fewer people staying on the far left = fewer people able to use HOV lanes).

Incidentally, the huge number of exists and the associated high levels of lane changing is one of the main factors that makes Highway 417 so congested despite Ottawa's relatively low population & high transit use.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

They won't be. The MTO studied HOV lanes in Ottawa, and concluded that while HOV lanes are a great idea west of Highway 416, they are a horrible idea anywhere east of there, because the exists are too closely spaced. (Closer exits = more weaving = fewer people staying on the far left = fewer people able to use HOV lanes).

Incidentally, the huge number of exists and the associated high levels of lane changing is one of the main factors that makes Highway 417 so congested despite Ottawa's relatively low population & high transit use.

My mistake. Thanks for the update.

[ssiguy]

No, the province stated the stations would be able to accommodate 3 Metro cars...........60 meters. They said it would have a capacity of 15,000 pphpd and now it can have at most 13,000.

As far as Ottawa, although the Confederation Line looks good and god knows they needed to improve the downtown core stretch, has there been any backlash? One of the many benefits of the Transitway is that it allowed express buses from the burbs to downtown without having to transfer getting rid of the dreaded last mile and the pain in the ass of a transfer. There is nothing better than only having to take one bus to get to work.

For many that luxury will now be gone and I think that was one of the elements that made the Transitway such a success in the first place. Considering the huge cost of transferring the non-downtown Transitway over to LRT, what was the rational of not just making it a bus tunnel? I know that the buses are diesel and thru a tunnel use to be a problem but not today with dual-mode buses that run on diesel and then battery when going thru tunnels. The batteries are recharged when the bus is using diesel.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your LRT just curious.

[SFUVancouver]

Great update. Thank you.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

No, the province stated the stations would be able to accommodate 3 Metro cars...........60 meters. They said it would have a capacity of 15,000 pphpd and now it can have at most 13,000.

As far as Ottawa, although the Confederation Line looks good and god knows they needed to improve the downtown core stretch, has there been any backlash? One of the many benefits of the Transitway is that it allowed express buses from the burbs to downtown without having to transfer getting rid of the dreaded last mile and the pain in the ass of a transfer. There is nothing better than only having to take one bus to get to work.

For many that luxury will now be gone and I think that was one of the elements that made the Transitway such a success in the first place. Considering the huge cost of transferring the non-downtown Transitway over to LRT, what was the rational of not just making it a bus tunnel? I know that the buses are diesel and thru a tunnel use to be a problem but not today with dual-mode buses that run on diesel and then battery when going thru tunnels. The batteries are recharged when the bus is using diesel.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your LRT just curious.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Show your sources, where are the documents?

It was always (and still is) 50 meters, which as I just told you is capable of 3 car trains. It is still 15 000 pphpd.

So stop spreading your misinformation.

[jlousa]

Again another false post by ssiguy, here is evidence that the Canada Line capacity is in fact 15K people per direction per hour.

http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us/Media/2010/June/Addressing-Canada-Line-capacity-questions.aspx

That same 15K is the current capacity of the Expo/Millenium combine line which has had almost 30yrs to build ridership and serves an area with a much larger population then the Canada Line will ever see.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

No, the province stated the stations would be able to accommodate 3 Metro cars...........60 meters. They said it would have a capacity of 15,000 pphpd and now it can have at most 13,000.

As far as Ottawa, although the Confederation Line looks good and god knows they needed to improve the downtown core stretch, has there been any backlash? One of the many benefits of the Transitway is that it allowed express buses from the burbs to downtown without having to transfer getting rid of the dreaded last mile and the pain in the ass of a transfer. There is nothing better than only having to take one bus to get to work.

For many that luxury will now be gone and I think that was one of the elements that made the Transitway such a success in the first place. Considering the huge cost of transferring the non-downtown Transitway over to LRT, what was the rational of not just making it a bus tunnel? I know that the buses are diesel and thru a tunnel use to be a problem but not today with dual-mode buses that run on diesel and then battery when going thru tunnels. The batteries are recharged when the bus is using diesel.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your LRT just curious.

This is why:




The sheer volume of buses and people hoarding and slighting slows the downtown portion to a painful crawl. Even with a bus tunnel, the number of vehicles needed just to support current demand wouldn't solve the bus jams or the issue of platform crowding (since everyone is waiting for a different bus, the platforms are almost always full, making the boarding/alighting process even longer and creating longer bus jams as vehicles line up behind). A transfer will be necessary once LRT is up and running, but the tunnel alone will save rush-hour commuters 20-30 minutes, longer if the weather isn't ideal. I'd wager that for most people, the pros will strongly outweigh the cons, especially once Phase 2 is completed.

BRT is great in low(er)-ridership areas, but one of its main advantages (transfer-less trips) becomes its downfall in high-demand corridors (too many vehicles, slow boarding and bus jams).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

No, the province stated the stations would be able to accommodate 3 Metro cars...........60 meters. They said it would have a capacity of 15,000 pphpd and now it can have at most 13,000.

As far as Ottawa, although the Confederation Line looks good and god knows they needed to improve the downtown core stretch, has there been any backlash? One of the many benefits of the Transitway is that it allowed express buses from the burbs to downtown without having to transfer getting rid of the dreaded last mile and the pain in the ass of a transfer. There is nothing better than only having to take one bus to get to work.

For many that luxury will now be gone and I think that was one of the elements that made the Transitway such a success in the first place. Considering the huge cost of transferring the non-downtown Transitway over to LRT, what was the rational of not just making it a bus tunnel? I know that the buses are diesel and thru a tunnel use to be a problem but not today with dual-mode buses that run on diesel and then battery when going thru tunnels. The batteries are recharged when the bus is using diesel.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your LRT just curious.

The backlash will come when the Confederation Line opens. But Ottawans have already had a taste of it with the botched opening of Rapidbus across the river based on a hub and spoke model that replaced express buses with transfers that instead of saving time, has actually increased travel time significantly. This after spending hundreds of millions of dollars that was supposed to speed up bus service but has not. The STO in Gatineau is being forced by the backlash to reassess the design of the Rapidbus system (which has also had many accidents because of awkward intersection designs). Fortunately, it is a busway so there is some flexibility that the Confederation Line will not feature.

At this point, everything regarding the Confederation Line is still theoretical however when transit detours start reality will begin to set in. There have been ridiculous comments of 15 minute time savings, which I believe are unachievable and will quickly be offset by time lost waiting for transfers. There is no doubt that there is a serious transit congestion problem in downtown Ottawa, which is now compromising service levels and reliability especially during bad weather. A downtown tunnel is absolutely necessary.

But when the choices were examined, the idea of a bus tunnel was dismissed very quickly. I have been of the opinion that the choice that we made is the most costly possible requiring our existing rapid transit infrastructure to be completely replaced with all the disruption involved. The bus tunnel was dismissed because it was felt that it would not have the capacity to handle the passenger traffic. This did ignore the possibility of continuing to use surface streets for some of the traffic.

We will have to wait until the 2018 opening to see the real impact of the Confederation Line but it will depend on the design of the new bus system and whether it will be effective. I have my doubts based on one proposal that was released that also would extend walking distances. It seems that the Confederation Line is being implemented with the idea of cost savings rather than service improvement. I have had other concerns about what will happen. Currently, the Transitways are used for trunk line bus service, express service and also cross-town service. The loss of the latter will reduce the connectivity of the transit system and will make transit less competitive in non-downtown locations.

Other faulty aspects of the rail plan includes the lack of full integration with the existing O-Train that potentially makes it a two transfer trip between the southern suburbs and downtown, now a direct trip.

The other issue was today's announcement that a possible future Conservative government may not fund the critical Phase 2 of the Confederation Line leaving Ottawa with an incomplete rail line.

There is general excitement from Ottawa posters about the shiny new train. I have been the skeptic in the group. I am expecting no savings in travel times for the vast majority of transit riders and I won't be surprised that the loss of express buses will result in longer travel times. This after spending $2.1 billion.

[eemy]

It's also more significantly more expensive to operate a system like that. Having to transfer to a train that's coming every 3 minutes, although certainly a deterrent, is not a significant hardship. Phase 2 is critical though.

[GlassCity]

Has the Confederation Line's planned frequency been released? I couldn't find it on google.

[lrt's friend]

A transfer will be necessary once LRT is up and running, but the tunnel alone will save rush-hour commuters 20-30 minutes,

This is ridiculous. It typically takes me 20 to 25 minutes to travel from downtown to South Keys using the Transitway. Yes, there are congestion problems but lets not overstate them.