[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Dmajackson]

According to a poll by Corporate Research Associates Inc (on behalf of The Chronicle Herald) support for the convention centre is at it's highest level ever in HRM.

Poll: Most Back Convention Centre (TheChronicleHerald.ca)

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

As of yesterday, the last bit of the bottom of the hole is covered.
Stay Up to date on progress at http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/


http://37.media.tumblr.com/0dead4f8df39986900023e5d2c68eb18/tumblr_n4w98pAufZ1sjmgsso1_1280.jpg

It is interesting to compare the floor plans (http://www.halifaxconventioncentre.com/facility/) with your pictures.

This project will become particularly interesting over the next couple of months once Cherubini starts erecting 2,000 tons of steel girders for the exhibit hall and ballroom (source: allnovascotia.com, "Nova Centre Rising from Argyle Street Pit", by Amanda Fraser, Feb 13, 2014). When the allnovascotia.com story was written the expected start of steel erection was the end of May.

As a comparison the steel in the Casino Nova Scotia was 1,200 tons - http://cherubinigroup.com/wp-content/uploads/casino-nova-scotia-04.jpg (source: http://cherubinigroup.com/projects/casino-nova-scotia/) versus 2,000 tons for the Nova Centre.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

According to a poll by Corporate Research Associates Inc (on behalf of The Chronicle Herald) support for the convention centre is at it's highest level ever in HRM.

Poll: Most Back Convention Centre (TheChronicleHerald.ca)

LOL. So much for the disinformation campaign being pushed out there.

I wonder how many more articles and letters to the editor about the "120,000 sq ft vs 290,000 sq ft" lie we'll continue seeing.

At this point, opponents must know they're playing a game of diminishing returns.

[fenwick16]

Looking through the following Design Review Committee Report - http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/140429ca92.PDF - the Nova Centre approval process is now up to step 5. I hope that the province will fast-track step 5 so there won't be any delays in the Nova Centre construction schedule.

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Process

It is important to note that Council is not considering the approval of a building at this time. Rather, it is considering amendments to the DHSMPS and DHLUB that will enable the new building to be approved through the substantive site plan approval process. This will involve a confirmation by the Development Officer that the finalized development proposal meets the amended requirements of the DHLUB and a determination by the Design Review Committee on whether it meets the Design Manual conditions. At the same time, with respect to Grafton Street, Council will need to consider amending the DHMPS to allow an exception to the policy that calls for blocks not to be consolidated for development. It also has to consider the official closure and sale of the street. Based on this, the sequential series of major steps that are involved with an approval are as follows:

1. Review and recommendation of proposed amendments to the planning documents by the Design Review Committee;
2. Regional Council first reading and set public hearing date;
3. Combined public hearing on the amendments to the planning documents and the administrative order for the closure of Grafton Street;
4. Regional Council decision on the adoption of amendments to the planning documents to address the new built-form of the Nova Centre and the exception to the policy that calls for blocks not to be consolidated for development;
5. Provincial review and approval of the amendments to the planning documents, if adopted by Council;
6. Contingent upon the amendments to the planning documents becoming effective, Regional Council approval of the closure of Grafton Street and the terms of its sale; and
7. Review of substantive site plan application by the Development Officer and the Design Review Committee.

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[counterfactual]

Surette is back in the Herald again, ripping the Convention Centre.

Man that guy is useless.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Surette is back in the Herald again, ripping the Convention Centre.

Man that guy is useless.

Ralph Surette certainly is depressing. Even more depressing is that there is a small group of people who agree with him.

Here is a link to the most recent Surette rant - http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1204876-surette-sugarplum-visions-still-go-to-our-heads.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Ralph Surette certainly is depressing. Even more depressing is that there is a small group of people who agree with him.

Here is a link to the most recent Surette rant - http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1204876-surette-sugarplum-visions-still-go-to-our-heads.

Does he get paid for this crap? I hope he makes an in kind donation to the Herald every time they publish him. He's been useless for years.

[KnoxfordGuy]

So...what happens to the site if the building doesn't get approved?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

So...what happens to the site if the building doesn't get approved?

Anti-convention centre activists keep trying to present every step in the process as a referendum on whether or not the project will proceed but they are misrepresenting the situation. Unfortunately, media outlets like the Herald also seem to be failing to present the issue in a clear way.

My understanding is that the funding is already in place, the critical requirements of the public component of the development (e.g. square footage of convention space) are already agreed upon, and this development already received more or less de facto approval years ago when it was built into the downtown plan. Under HRM by Design, there is no council vote on height with every proposal. That was one of the key reasons for moving away from the old development agreement process.

The most recent approval was for moving the convention space above Grafton vs. leaving it underground. It wasn't a vote on whether or not to proceed. The site plan approval will involve a review by the DRC and maybe some design tweaks but they are not really "gatekeepers" for the project. Ultimately it's the province that has the final say. The current work has been happening under provincial order before HRM approval was in place. This might not be ideal but the reality is that it's also not reasonable to give city councillors absolute veto power over provincial projects in the capital. Thankfully that's not how it works.

[fenwick16]

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/12...ince-over-nova-centre-planning-exemption )

Thiel Group sues province over Nova Centre planning exemption

The development of the new convention centre under construction in downtown Halifax has taken a new litigious twist.

The Thiel Family Group of Companies, owners of the Bank of Montreal Building, TD Centre and the downtown block buildings proposed to be redeveloped as 22 Commerce Square, has launched a Nova Scotia Supreme Court action alleging that the province broke its own laws by granting Argyle Developments Inc., owner and developer of Nova Centre, an exemption from municipal planning rules.
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I wonder what the Thiel Group expects to gain from this court action? Polls indicate that the convention centre has majority support so if this action delays the opening of the convention centre then it will hurt the HRM and province.

I believe the Thiel Group will make more enemies than friends from this move. The Nova Centre hasn't exactly been a walk in the park versus the TD Centre and 22nd Commerce Square, which both seem to have had less red-tape than the Nova Centre.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/12...ince-over-nova-centre-planning-exemption )


I wonder what the Thiel Group expects to gain from this court action? Polls indicate that the convention centre has majority support so if this action delays the opening of the convention centre then it will hurt the HRM and province.

I believe the Thiel Group will make more enemies than friends from this move. The Nova Centre hasn't exactly been a walk in the park versus the TD Centre and 22nd Commerce Square, which both seem to have had less red-tape than the Nova Centre.

Well the outcome is going to be pretty simple - every province is the key holder of planning matters - that stems from the original British North America act when the Crown (Federal Government) delegated those powers to the Provinces.

Thus the Province under the Municipal Government Act has the ability to designate projects or sites exempt from Municipal Planning Approval. I don't know the specifics of the NS rules - but in Alberta, the rules in the MGA are so broad that there isn't even a need to have a project of "Provincial significance" or anything like that.

I'd argue as a counter to their lawsuit that the Nova Centre is a project of Provincial Significance and thus with 3 levels of government committing money, the need to move the project along was decided at a Provincial level to be of economic importance.

These guys really aren't making friends in Nova Scotia now are they...I suspect they are a little annoyed also that their appeal to Regional Council was tossed. I had hoped that this sort of vindictive type of lawsuits were gone, but alas...

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/12...ince-over-nova-centre-planning-exemption )


I wonder what the Thiel Group expects to gain from this court action? Polls indicate that the convention centre has majority support so if this action delays the opening of the convention centre then it will hurt the HRM and province.

I believe the Thiel Group will make more enemies than friends from this move. The Nova Centre hasn't exactly been a walk in the park versus the TD Centre and 22nd Commerce Square, which both seem to have had less red-tape than the Nova Centre.

I don't know what they have to gain either but I also don't think this has the ability to cause any delays/

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well the outcome is going to be pretty simple - every province is the key holder of planning matters - that stems from the original British North America act when the Crown (Federal Government) delegated those powers to the Provinces.

Thus the Province under the Municipal Government Act has the ability to designate projects or sites exempt from Municipal Planning Approval. I don't know the specifics of the NS rules - but in Alberta, the rules in the MGA are so broad that there isn't even a need to have a project of "Provincial significance" or anything like that.

I'd argue as a counter to their lawsuit that the Nova Centre is a project of Provincial Significance and thus with 3 levels of government committing money, the need to move the project along was decided at a Provincial level to be of economic importance.

These guys really aren't making friends in Nova Scotia now are they...I suspect they are a little annoyed also that their appeal to Regional Council was tossed. I had hoped that this sort of vindictive type of lawsuits were gone, but alas...

This should be common knowledge to them and if it isn't too their lawyer they should be fire them for pushing for this or agreeing to it. I really don't think they have any slim chance of coming out on top with this, its a very cut and dry clearly laid out that the Province has the authority in this mater.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

This should be common knowledge to them and if it isn't too their lawyer they should be fire them for pushing for this or agreeing to it. I really don't think they have any slim chance of coming out on top with this, its a very cut and dry clearly laid out that the Province has the authority in this mater.

Just had a quick peak and here is the link to the statement of Provincial Interest for Nova Centre.

I think they are going to have a tough if not impossible time fighting this one.

[someone123]

Setting aside the fact that the province has the authority to circumvent HRM planning rules, there was also a tendering process for the convention centre. Thiel Group could have put in a bid too. Rank isn't getting random special treatment, they are the ones who won the bid to build a public development.

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by someone123

Setting aside the fact that the province has the authority to circumvent HRM planning rules, there was also a tendering process for the convention centre. Thiel Group could have put in a bid too. Rank isn't getting random special treatment, they are the ones who won the bid to build a public development.

sort of. Rank owned the site, the site was designated for the convention Center, so rank was really the only eligible bidder and it was basically sole sourced.

did anyone notice that starfish opposed the extension of the development agreement for the zellers building, since they got the roy started on time.

i think its a thing developers have - if someone else gets an exception, and they didnt, they think its unfair.

besides didnt trilluim start work before they had all their approvals, and got a fine?

[Ziobrop]

Progress update Via http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com
after a year, we are basically in the same place, just going in the other direction now.

May 22/2013:


May 22/2014:

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

sort of. Rank owned the site, the site was designated for the convention Center, so rank was really the only eligible bidder and it was basically sole sourced.

There was a site selection process though, and had another developer offered a suitable site it would have been considered. Rank was not arbitrarily chosen.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was a site selection process though, and had another developer offered a suitable site it would have been considered. Rank was not arbitrarily chosen.

If memory serves, Thiel in fact submitted a bid for the site that will become 22 Commerce Square. It lost.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/12...ince-over-nova-centre-planning-exemption )


I wonder what the Thiel Group expects to gain from this court action? Polls indicate that the convention centre has majority support so if this action delays the opening of the convention centre then it will hurt the HRM and province.

I believe the Thiel Group will make more enemies than friends from this move. The Nova Centre hasn't exactly been a walk in the park versus the TD Centre and 22nd Commerce Square, which both seem to have had less red-tape than the Nova Centre.

Yeah it never ceases to amaze me when developers decide to get litigious with each other, when the root of it is just being a poor loser. I can see what the short term gain might be, but in the long term you just open yourself up to a game of "what is good for the goose...". It probably puts other developers in a mood to oppose aspects of the Commerce Square proposal!

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I wonder what the Thiel Group expects to gain from this court action? Polls indicate that the convention centre has majority support so if this action delays the opening of the convention centre then it will hurt the HRM and province.

Maybe that's what they want... to delay the convention centre. With all the new towers and upgrades to towers coming online commercial vacancy rates in the core are skyrocketing. Commerce Square is one of the least complete proposals, so perhaps they're worried they're going to end up "last to the show" and be stuck with office space they can't fill. A delay to the convention centre would be a delay to the (competing) office space associated with it.