stal̕əw̓asəm (Riverview) Bridge (Pattullo Bridge Replacement) | U/C

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

If the touchy feely policy wonks and precious green Vancouverites really want to reduce CO2 and pollution, then let them put their money where their industrial size mouths are and help pay for.

Well, to address that we could follow Norway's lead. Toll the bridges, but make it free for EVs and HOVs. They did the same for ferries, and allow EVs to use bus lanes as well.

There's not much incentive (aside from low cost of ownership) for EVs in BC. All the gov't incentives expired in March. I have recently been seeing a few more Volts, Teslas and Leafs kicking around though.

[WarrenC12]

I've heard supply in Canada is partially constraining EV sales. IE: Some people want a Tesla or a Volt at MSRP, they just aren't available.

I think EVs are a good reason we should be building Site C yesterday.

The HOV lane already has a reduced toll on the PMB. I'd be ok with allowing EVs in that lane, much like California.

Any new crossing has to be tolled.

[SFUVancouver]

^ The volt really isn't an EV. The wheels are turned by an electric motor, and there is a small battery pack for electrical storage, but the electrical power to charge the battery pack is produced by an on-board gas engine and that means that it isn't an electric vehicle. By way of comparison, a diesel-electric locomotive, which turns the wheels with electric motors but burns practically bunker-grade diesel to generate current, is not considered to be an electric train by any stretch of the imagination. Were it to have an on-board battery pack, like the Volt, wouldn't change a thing either.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

^ The volt really isn't an EV. The wheels are turned by an electric motor, and there is a small battery pack for electrical storage, but the electrical power to charge the battery pack is produced by an on-board gas engine and that means that it isn't an electric vehicle.

The Volt technically is a plug in hybrid, but most of the time is functions as an EV.

I regularly get 60-70km on a charge these days. The battery pack isn't that small. It weighs about 200 kg and stores 16.5 kWh. The generator only turns on after the battery is depleted. My car right now has been used as an EV 85% of the time.

So, no Volts aren't like a Diesel-Electric train locomotive at all.

[Axe]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

^ The volt really isn't an EV. The wheels are turned by an electric motor, and there is a small battery pack for electrical storage, but the electrical power to charge the battery pack is produced by an on-board gas engine and that means that it isn't an electric vehicle. By way of comparison, a diesel-electric locomotive, which turns the wheels with electric motors but burns practically bunker-grade diesel to generate current, is not considered to be an electric train by any stretch of the imagination. Were it to have an on-board battery pack, like the Volt, wouldn't change a thing either.

you are talk about a Toyota Prius, a volt it not like that, I own a volt Got 45000km on it, Only 300L of gas used, because i go on long trips in the summer

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

^ The volt really isn't an EV. The wheels are turned by an electric motor, and there is a small battery pack for electrical storage, but the electrical power to charge the battery pack is produced by an on-board gas engine and that means that it isn't an electric vehicle.

The battery pack in the Volt is large enough to power the vehicle for over 100km - the normal mode of usage is to plug the car in overnight, use it exclusively on electric power during the day, and plug it in again the next evening - in other words, never using the ICE (Internal Combusion Engine). The ICE is there in case you have to drive further than the range available on battery power alone, but that should be a small minority of trips for most people.

The on-board computer will actually fire up the ICE every so often so that you're forced to re-fill it once in a while to avoid having the gas go stale, but I have no idea how often that kind of thing occurs.

So yes, the Volt really is an EV, but with the added bonus of unlimited range via gasoline if you really need it.

[Axe]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The battery pack in the Volt is large enough to power the vehicle for over 100km - the normal mode of usage is to plug the car in overnight, use it exclusively on electric power during the day, and plug it in again the next evening - in other words, never using the ICE (Internal Combusion Engine). The ICE is there in case you have to drive further than the range available on battery power alone, but that should be a small minority of trips for most people.

The on-board computer will actually fire up the ICE every so often so that you're forced to re-fill it once in a while to avoid having the gas go stale, but I have no idea how often that kind of thing occurs.

So yes, the Volt really is an EV, but with the added bonus of unlimited range via gasoline if you really need it.

If the engine doesn't run in a 30 day period the engine will run for 10 mins.



ok back on topic....
Why can trucks take up both lanes on the bridge... This drives me crazy!!! The GOOD truck drivers can fit in one lane. So if you can't drive a Large truck, then take one of the other bridges

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Really? Most people go 60 when I'm on there. Just stick to the right lane. Going to Surrey, I'll stick with 50 to the arc of the bridge then throw the car into 6th gear until I hit 60 then downshift to 5th gear and usually it holds at 60 down the rest of the curb. There's that prime cop hideout spot by the electronic billboard anyway.

From Surrey, I'll stick with 60 the entire way.

So I know this is off topic but what kind of car do you have? and how many gears does it have? The only reason I ask is, 60kmph seems super slow to be in sixth gear....what gear are you in when going freeway speeds? Tenth gear? (I'm joking).

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Well, to address that we could follow Norway's lead. Toll the bridges, but make it free for EVs and HOVs. They did the same for ferries, and allow EVs to use bus lanes as well.

There's not much incentive (aside from low cost of ownership) for EVs in BC. All the gov't incentives expired in March. I have recently been seeing a few more Volts, Teslas and Leafs kicking around though.

Their tolls are different though. You pay once then you can cross again and not pay over and over again. Unlike here. So even though people pay tolls, you can then use the infrastructure multiple times. Here though you pay a toll then if you immediately turn around and cross the bridge the other way you pay yet again. That punishes industry who must use the major routes to transport goods and as car statistics show, does absolutely nothing to discourage people driving.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

So I know this is off topic but what kind of car do you have? and how many gears does it have? The only reason I ask is, 60kmph seems super slow to be in sixth gear....what gear are you in when going freeway speeds? Tenth gear? (I'm joking).

Actually wondering the same thing. I shift into second gear when I hit 55kph in my car. Third = 95 :|

[SFUVancouver]

Re: Volt, I stand corrected on the significance of the battery pack. I'll leave it at that; didn't mean to derail the thread.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Well, to address that we could follow Norway's lead. Toll the bridges, but make it free for EVs and HOVs. They did the same for ferries, and allow EVs to use bus lanes as well.

There's not much incentive (aside from low cost of ownership) for EVs in BC. All the gov't incentives expired in March. I have recently been seeing a few more Volts, Teslas and Leafs kicking around though.

There should be an incentive. If BC (and Vancouver) want to be viewed as "green" EV's shouldn't be hit with extra taxes (tesla subject to 10% PST) to get people to make the switch. Down south they offer better incentives (zero sales tax in WA plus a federal incentive). Tesla's seemingly becoming more and more common. Will be nice when they bring their business lease scheme up here. And geez... volt payments are almost the same as tesla 60KW payments...

And most modern transmissions are in 6th by 60kph if you aren't accelerating hard.

----

Back on topic, I agree with the previous commenter that trucks shouldn't be allowed to take up both lanes, but then again many drivers aren't aware how big their cars are so they would be unlikely to pass and would then hold up traffic either way.

So much money and time is being wasted with this pissing match between the province, new west and translink. Would be easier if the province just moved the bridge and connecting roads into provincial jurisdiction.

[GMasterAres]

The roads, bridge, and connections are part of the Major Road Network right now which is Translink/Provincial jurisdiction already. That includes Patullo, King George Boulevard, Scott Road, SFPR, Royal Avenue, and McBride Boulevard.

So the Province and Translink can technically and legally do whatever they think is best for the region based on that.

[splashflash]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Their tolls are different though. You pay once then you can cross again and not pay over and over again. Unlike here. So even though people pay tolls, you can then use the infrastructure multiple times. Here though you pay a toll then if you immediately turn around and cross the bridge the other way you pay yet again. That punishes industry who must use the major routes to transport goods and as car statistics show, does absolutely nothing to discourage people driving.

Charging the user of infrastructure or services that they use should not be considered punishing industry but rather good economic management. Inefficient use occurs of goods and services occurs when these costs are internalized. Better to tax bridges than to hoist property taxes and then other industries pay and suffer. Goods which are moved for the least cost to destination should have their lower prices reflected in their costs to the customer, and be inflated as little by cross-subsidizing as possible.

[makr3trkr]

http://www.surreyleader.com/news/260171541.html

"[minister Todd Stone] noted the replacement of the Port Mann Bridge was only $800 to $900 million of the much larger $3.3-billion project, which widened Highway 1 and replaced numerous interchanges."

If a (longer) 10-lane bridge (closer to 12 lanes with the barriers removed) was 800-900 million, it becomes plain that New West is distorting the cost of a 6-lane bridge.

[Nites]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Really? Most people go 60 when I'm on there. Just stick to the right lane. Going to Surrey, I'll stick with 50 to the arc of the bridge then throw the car into 6th gear until I hit 60 then downshift to 5th gear and usually it holds at 60 down the rest of the curb. There's that prime cop hideout spot by the electronic billboard anyway.

From Surrey, I'll stick with 60 the entire way.

When I get off the bridge heading down to Surrey by the billboard I have the urge to speed up to 70-80 because the lanes are so wide and open.

[makr3trkr]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Pattullo+Bridge+crash+likely+drug+court+rules/9893806/story.html

METRO VANCOUVER -- A Pattullo Bridge crash victim has been awarded more than half a million dollars in compensation for injuries and drug addiction brought on by a head-on collision when he was 12.

[B.C. Supreme Court Justice] Kloegman found the defendants — Satvir Singh Gill, Aman Jit Singh, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority doing business as TransLink, and the provincial Ministry of Transportation and Highways — liable.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

http://www.surreyleader.com/news/260171541.html

"[minister Todd Stone] noted the replacement of the Port Mann Bridge was only $800 to $900 million of the much larger $3.3-billion project, which widened Highway 1 and replaced numerous interchanges."

If a (longer) 10-lane bridge (closer to 12 lanes with the barriers removed) was 800-900 million, it becomes plain that New West is distorting the cost of a 6-lane bridge.

I am going to bet that the 800-900 didn't include anything besides the structure itself. The Patullo will still need approaches, intersections/ ramps etc.

[makr3trkr]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

I am going to bet that the 800-900 didn't include anything besides the structure itself. The Patullo will still need approaches, intersections/ ramps etc.

Correct, which is why the price is about the same for a 6-lane Pattullo vs a 10-lane PMB (~900m) and why a 4-lane/5-lane Pattullo is not significantly cheaper (~850m).

The Pattullo rebuild would have to include new interchanges with KGB/SFPR/Front/Columbia/McBride/Brunette

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

I am going to bet that the 800-900 didn't include anything besides the structure itself. The Patullo will still need approaches, intersections/ ramps etc.

The Golden Ears Bridge cost below 1 billion, and that included a nearly 3km long 6 lane bridge and an extensive network of new roads, including interchanges and a 700 meter long viaduct.