Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

If Commuter/InterCity Rail comes to Phoenix, it's going to be at Union Station at 4th Avenue. This current Central Station is not long for this world. A good plan on this lot will allow the current Central Station to survive in the short term and then be filled in with other uses later.

+1

That would actually be awesome. I bet it would really help the warehouse district. Now, if we could just get the commuter rail to Union Station and a street car from Union Station to Central Station...

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

+1

That would actually be awesome. I bet it would really help the warehouse district. Now, if we could just get the commuter rail to Union Station and a street car from Union Station to Central Station...

I'm not sure we need streetcar from Union to Central. My point is, Central will go away. It'll always have those 2 LRT stops that serve ASU, the park and Downtown, and maybe a few bus connections but it won't be a "central" station.

All of those buses can be routed to terminate at Union. That works well as Union Station is right next to the City and County complexes and those employees generally take transit more often as they get subsidized passes.

The future Capitol line of the LRT will run East/West on Jefferson. It could have a stop at 4th Ave/Jefferson which would serve as a connection to Union Station.

The future N/S South Phoenix line could also connect. It could very well run South on 3rd Ave to connect to Union Station before then dogging East over to Central (and then running on Central from there on out) after Lincoln.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

The future N/S South Phoenix line could also connect. It could very well run South on 3rd Ave to connect to Union Station before then dogging East over to Central (and then running on Central from there on out) after Lincoln.

I was talking to Greg Stanton at a neighborhood meeting in December and asked him about the South Phoenix line connecting at Union Station and his response was that it was a good idea but he didn't think it would happen.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

I was talking to Greg Stanton at a neighborhood meeting in December and asked him about the South Phoenix line connecting at Union Station and his response was that it was a good idea but he didn't think it would happen.

All the preliminary work done by Valley Metro points toward using the Central / 1st Ave couplet -- just as with the current line.

http://www.valleymetro.org/images/upload...ral_Project_Report_Card_-_March_2014.pdf

[FitnessPower]

Originally Posted by turpentyne

FitnessPower, forgive me for jumping in here... I agree that people can get overzealous in their frustration. Sometimes though, it's a well-founded frustration. I believe the point is, there are benefits - but this building damages the viability of further developments that we need to make downtown Phoenix a successful, livable environment - so, in that sense, have we really won with this proposal?

Instead of cutting off our nose, to spite our face... we'd be building a tower to spite our community - without realizing it.

I don't think anybody wants them to NOT build there. But some input from the community on how to make it more worthwhile to the community should be taken to heart. It's in the best interest of developers, if they want more contracts in this city. A more viable downtown, with features that posters such as Jjs5056 have mentioned - will bring more contracts to these developers.

A win/win.

This is a beautiful building, but it has issues that put that future viability at risk. Yes, a city is organic, and will do what it has to. But remember, there's a stated goal of making the city more walkable and less dependent on the automobile. This building does far less than it could do to promote that goal. Every project should be the best it can be. not, "yay, we filled another hole!"

And, on one level, it has nothing to do with competing against the big cities like Los Angeles, New York, or Chicago. Yet... on another level. Yes, indeed we must compare ourselves to them. We need to do the things that bring people here to live and work. With more bright minds, we become a more successful city. So we DO need to be aware of what has made other cities grand in stature. Because we can get there - it will still be its own city, don't fear that.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Good points but you still have to be realistic. PHX will ALWAYS be dependent on the automobile. We can make Downtown more walkable yes that would be a big plus, but to take away parking from potential residents is not in the best interests for the developer. It would devalue the property.

Not every development has to be a Homerun according to the urban code, sometimes you have to hit some singles and doubles to overall get ahead. The Chase tower doesn't fit the urban code and just think how pathetic DT would be with out that building. Lets get some new residents down there first then everyone can start swinging for the fences with future projects when the time comes.

[Obadno]

Portland on the Park!





http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/new-market/multi-family/phase-2-portland-park

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by FitnessPower

PHX will ALWAYS be dependent on the automobile.

Why? It wasn't always that way after all.

Originally Posted by FitnessPower

The Chase tower doesn't fit the urban code and just think how pathetic DT would be with out that building..

Besides being the tallest building in the State, the Chase tower is awful. I'd trade it in a second for a building half as tall but designed well.

I know this is the skyscraper page and people get overly excited about height, but DC & Paris do just fine with moderate heights. Its the form that really matters, not the height.

[KevininPhx]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Why? It wasn't always that way after all.



Besides being the tallest building in the State, the Chase tower is awful. I'd trade it in a second for a building half as tall but designed well.

I know this is the skyscraper page and people get overly excited about height, but DC & Paris do just fine with moderate heights. Its the form that really matters, not the height.

Paris has several buildings in the 600-foot range and DC, while I love it, is an architectural train wreck. I'm not disagreeing with your point - Vancouver comes to mind. As for Chase, I think it's a salvagable building. If it were completely redone with modern glass - all glass, it could look amazing.

[poconoboy61]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Why? It wasn't always that way after all.

Phoenix was about 20 square miles or so before it became auto dependent. What is it now? 520 square miles? I would say we're past retrofitting this city into anything it used to be. There is not enough public support for such a radical change and the political support is not there either. Phoenix is what it is.

[turpentyne]

Cars will always be a part of the equation, sure.

But the footprint of this city, while large, is not an issue. Overlay other cities, and you'll find it can be done. Toronto's transit system could cover much of that distance - and they're considering more lines because some lines are at max capacity. Granted, it's a subway, not light rail, but my point is... what needs to change is the mentality of our residents and developers. We can't just say "that ship sailed."

We're better than that.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by poconoboy61

Phoenix was about 20 square miles or so before it became auto dependent. What is it now? 520 square miles? I would say we're past retrofitting this city into anything it used to be. There is not enough public support for such a radical change and the political support is not there either. Phoenix is what it is.

Phoenix's size is why a "pick your winners" strategy is important. Sure Happy Valley isn't going to be walkable, but who cares? Central Phoenix has the potential to be as walkable as just about any other American city.

[Buckeye Native 001]

The ship hasn't sailed, but Phoenix is at an extremely volatile point in its history/growth and has to make a decision/commitment to whatever type of city it wants to be.

I think the foundation for a viable urban core has been placed thanks to the leadership of mayors Gordon and Stanton. At the same time, I worry that someone like DiCiccio will be the next mayor in 2015 and kill off whatever progress has already been made.

That said, I like what Phoenix has done so far and grow tired of critics who demand that Phoenix transform itself into urban mecca yesterday (or have whatever unrealistic expectations that the majority of forumers from elsewhere think Phoenix should be at its present stage) completely disregarding the last sixty years of urban development trends not just locally but also nationwide.

Long story short: While I'm no longer a resident of Phoenix, I've since learned to appreciate what it is and what it represents and am hopeful it will continue to urbanize its central core in the future. From personal experience, the majority of Arizonans not living in the Valley simply have no idea how dependent we are on Phoenix no matter how much we might despise it (looking at you, Flagstaff)

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I worry that someone like DiCiccio will be the next mayor in 2015 and kill off whatever progress has already been made.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I don't think DiCiccio has his eye on City Level politics. I'd think his next move would be taking a shot at the State Legislature or even US Congress perhaps. I think the City wide GOP knows he's pretty volatile and unlikely to win an election in PHX which almost always elects a Democratic Mayor. Jim Warring would seem to me a more likely pick for them, or even Bill Gates.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Thanks for the heads up on that, I wasn't entirely sure what the situation was. My parents live in Ahwatukee (DiCiccio's district, or one of them) so its all I'm familiar with outside of what's posted here and in the local media.

[soleri]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Phoenix's size is why a "pick your winners" strategy is important. Sure Happy Valley isn't going to be walkable, but who cares? Central Phoenix has the potential to be as walkable as just about any other American city.

Urban triage for Phoenix would necessarily focus on Roosevelt, adding density and perhaps even more transit options like a streetcar line down Roosevelt St to Grand Avenue and possibly running up to McDowell over to 16th St. This is, of course, just fantasy/speculation on my part since there's not nearly the density in place to support such a line.

30-some years ago, it looked like Coronado and the old Miracle Mile strip on McDowell would evolve into real urban neighborhoods. Gays were at the forefront in gentrifying the area. Then AIDS came along, and the effort floundered as many of the pioneers died. The other historic neighborhoods are opposed to density in their midst, so don't look for Willo, Encanto Vista, Palmcroft, Alvarado or Ashland to allow much if any development. Once you're north of Thomas, there's little urban fabric since it was all developed in the 1950s with cars in mind. There are two other areas to watch. One is the Camelback corridor from 7th Avenue to 7th Street. It's probably the hottest area in Phoenix now with all the new restaurants and businesses. Medlock Place is a historic neighborhood but it's got great mid-century apartment complexes on Pasadena and Medlock. With The Newton opening soon, this area could really upgrade dramatically. The other area, Melrose, possesses some decent buildings and urban values (read: gay bars) but sits on 7th Avenue, which is a virtual freeway. There are a number of good mid-century apartment complexes on 8th Avenue, but it's going to need some help. One partial remedy: getting rid of the "suicide lane" on 7th Avenue.

If you're an urban curator in Phoenix, you have to do a couple of things. One is squint your eyes a lot because there really isn't much to work with. The second thing is to encourage people to walk or bike. If you go to Postino's, Windsor, Joyride, or Federal Pizza, parking is already a hassle. This is actually good news since anything that prompts people to get out of their cars and act like city dwellers is a plus.

Would it be possible to knit together Phoenix's disparate semi-urban islands? I'm not sure but if Arizona becomes less right-wing in the coming years, a real urban renaissance would probably happen in central Phoenix. This means more people, businesses, and possibly even a return to downtown's traditional role as the economic core. Focus on more shade, more bicycles, more urban-style businesses (e.g., brew pubs), and less of the suburban stuff (Applebee's!). Good luck, Phoenix. I'm rooting for you.

[Spitfiredude]

Call me a lazy 🞵🞵🞵, but could someone give an updated list of the projects and heights? I'm kind of lost at where some of these projects are... 2 midtown ones specifically? Yes...I've tried to go back through the pages...or at least a good amount

[Obadno]

Nobody into the rendering of Portland phase two?

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Nobody into the rendering of Portland phase two?

People already commented on it two pages back.

[arp32]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
I agree, lots of exciting projects planned downtown and midtown all of the sudden.

- Luhrs Hotel
- Portland Place 2
- Union
- Ballpark Lofts
- Central Station


What's the scoop on "Ballpark Lofts?" Only seen it mentioned in lists, no details...

[PHXFlyer11]

Go back to early March, you'll see some nice renderings. They may be called the Ballpark Apartments or Stadium Apartments or something... it was originally received very negatively as they wanted to shutter Buchancan street. The revised design is great in my opinion and will be key in the development of the warehouse district.