Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[spm2013]

I guess the NIMBY profile is intact in Surrey/White Rock

Attendees were given “10 to 12 minutes” to formally comment or ask questions. Cost and where the funds would come from were among concerns raised. One attendee wanted to know how many fatalities have occurred along the line in its history; another asked Watts to “dig in your high heels” to help move the concept forward.

http://www.peacearchnews.com/news/233678581.html

[quobobo]

Just look at that sea of white hair! Maybe even more than at hearings in Vancouver...

[ClaytonA]

Thanks JLenko, there's a few maps showing it belonging to different railways including this one (apparently 3): http://www.asiapacificgateway.gc.ca/investments/mainmap_e.html

Interesting route options for the White Rock bypass.

-I'd prefer cut and cover or a trench (maybe just embankments?) with a roof over elevated for options 1-3 to mitigate noise and vibrations. You'd think piggybacking off the 176th St right of way (option 3) would be cheaper than offsetting the tracks to the east? The 180th St alignment (option 2) and option 1 avoids the cost of a tunnel and looks to have fewer conflicts with existing buildings/activity.

-As someone posted on Peach Arch New's site, what are Blaine's preferences? Any major issues with putting it along the truck route instead of along the sea shore? If we're choosing option 1 does it make sense for them to go north earlier and cross the border at 184th St?

-With the Southern Railway Line becoming the most direct route to the NewWest Rail Bridge and at least some? of the Fraser River Ports for options 1-3, could this increase the volume of trains on that line? Should there be improvements on it as well (ie some seperated grade at roads)?

http://sry.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/sry_route_map2.jpg


Here's a link to a online survey: http://www.surrey.ca/city-services/14285.aspx


The old right of way would make a great multi-use pathway connecting White Rock to the one south of Hwy 99 in Delta that goes through Mud Bay Park and Colebrook Rd.

[Whalleyboy]

I have to agree with the ones along pacific hwy. The idea of connecting with cloverdale is pretty cool. Also love seeing the picture of the waterfront walk way in south surrey

[Zassk]

On Google Maps satellite view, you can actually make out the 1890's right-of-way in various spots (mainly where it curves around the ridge). I wonder if any of it is still owned by a railway, or if the whole thing was sold off? The price tag of $300-400 mil seems like it must include tunnelling costs, and the options that exclude tunnel must be substantially cheaper, especially if there is some old right-of-way still in the railway's possession.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Zassk

On Google Maps satellite view, you can actually make out the 1890's right-of-way in various spots (mainly where it curves around the ridge). I wonder if any of it is still owned by a railway, or if the whole thing was sold off? The price tag of $300-400 mil seems like it must include tunnelling costs, and the options that exclude tunnel must be substantially cheaper, especially if there is some old right-of-way still in the railway's possession.

The portion in South Surrey largely is owned by the City, not all portions, some is private property, but it is a future greenway corridor as well.

To the north, the only rail alignment is Harvie Road, and where it curves gently just south of Highway 1, is where the curve continued on through Port Kells to the CN mainline.

in fact, you can see a little bit of the old alignment on the northwest corner of 94 ave and 190 st in port kells.

[jlenko]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

Thanks JLenko, there's a few maps showing it belonging to different railways including this one (apparently 3): http://www.asiapacificgateway.gc.ca/investments/mainmap_e.html

I asked a few people "in the know" at work.. (Yes, I work for CN) Apparently it IS still owned by the Government.. but CN pays $1 a year to lease it, and is responsible for running and maintaining it.

Used to be the same deal, but by operated by BNSF, up until the late 80's/early 90's. Couldn't figure out an exact date from the guys at work.

If there are plans to put a new rail bridge somewhere though, it's news to me. As I said, CN put lots of $$ into the bridge doing upgrades over the past few years.

[tybuilding]

Link to open house and youtube presentation http://www.surrey.ca/city-services/14285.aspx

It would be great to see the entire existing corridor as a dyke trail/sea front trail. It should connect to the Boundary Bay trail, use the existing rail crossings and go all the way to the border.

[cornholio]

According to the presentation pdf there has been a 1000% increase in rail traffic between 2004 and 2013. It is safe to assume that rail traffic will continue to increase and the number of local residents and waterfront users will also continue to increase.

Sooner or later that rail line will have to be moved, might as well plan for it now and do it sooner rather than latter. Also those costs seem to be on the low end for option 3,4...tunneling is not cheap especially if you want to run passenger rail through the tunnel. Having said that I obviously like option 3 and 4 the most, and imo in the long term they would prove to be the best choice.

[casper]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Link to open house and youtube presentation http://www.surrey.ca/city-services/14285.aspx

It would be great to see the entire existing corridor as a dyke trail/sea front trail. It should connect to the Boundary Bay trail, use the existing rail crossings and go all the way to the border.

Someone who lives in the area should start a petition for a streetcar running along the old line. Perhaps even a heritage line.

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by cornholio

According to the presentation pdf there has been a 1000% increase in rail traffic between 2004 and 2013. It is safe to assume that rail traffic will continue to increase and the number of local residents and waterfront users will also continue to increase.

It's safe to assume more people will get killed crossing by cars than by a train, when are they going to move all the roads?

[AverageJoe]

Did the discussions consider asking BNSF to use the existing BNSF alignment that crosses the border at Sumas? It's a bit of a longer route and tracks there that may need a little work to handle heavy coal traffic but the tracks already exist without having to build a new alignment and raise all sorts of hell.

The Sumas tracks cross mainly farmland in Washington State and BC. It joins with SRY and routes through Abbotsford and Aldergrove before joining back up with the government tracks in Langley toward Roberts Bank where CN/CP coal trains already run.

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by casper

Someone who lives in the area should start a petition for a streetcar running along the old line. Perhaps even a heritage line.

I've been thinking the same thing with the old line. It doesnt even have to be fast moving at all

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

I've been thinking the same thing with the old line. It doesnt even have to be fast moving at all

Great way to connect Crescent Beach to White Rock.

[yesheh]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

Did the discussions consider asking BNSF to use the existing BNSF alignment that crosses the border at Sumas? It's a bit of a longer route and tracks there that may need a little work to handle heavy coal traffic but the tracks already exist without having to build a new alignment and raise all sorts of hell.

The Sumas tracks cross mainly farmland in Washington State and BC. It joins with SRY and routes through Abbotsford and Aldergrove before joining back up with the government tracks in Langley toward Roberts Bank where CN/CP coal trains already run.

Someone correct me if they know otherwise, but I believe BNSF did consider this option a while back and decided against it for cost [of upgrade] and NIMBY reasons (probably Everson, some of the other communities along that line). Not sure who is louder, the Canadian or the US NIMBYs. The line through Abby is under-utilized; however there are a few trains a week that use that line.

Also, the grades on the SRY line are quite steep at points - I remember once the CN mainline was diverted to the SRY line because of a slide somewhere, and the CN train derailed on the SRY line going down a hill... that was the last time that happened.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

Did the discussions consider asking BNSF to use the existing BNSF alignment that crosses the border at Sumas? It's a bit of a longer route and tracks there that may need a little work to handle heavy coal traffic but the tracks already exist without having to build a new alignment and raise all sorts of hell.

The Sumas tracks cross mainly farmland in Washington State and BC. It joins with SRY and routes through Abbotsford and Aldergrove before joining back up with the government tracks in Langley toward Roberts Bank where CN/CP coal trains already run.

Only issue is Amtrak. doing this would bypass the Bellingham station and I can't see them doing that. Although I think the larger issue here is freight, and having 6-8 passenger trains along here would probably work.

For freight purposes, it may be possible, but again, I don't know how much freight movement is seen on the existing line between Burlington and Blaine, which then would need to come south to Burlington to go north again through Sumas.

Still regionally, this is something I've commented on. The rail line through Abbotsford that follows Sumas Highway (Highway 11) has a few trains per day, and a new connection to the CN mainline just south of the Fraser River would need to be made, and these trains also go right through downtown Abbotsford in which I bet that community would object to 10X the amount of trains going through that area. Still, I like this idea for freight traffic, but from a passenger rail perspective, there could be some issues.

Separately, there is an old rail right-of-way that connects from Bellingham to Everson that then connects to Sumas. Still, the amount of effort to upgrade this portion of line and get through Bellingham for a Canadian issue, I can't see BNSF or Whatcom County being interested in that in any way.

[mattropolis]

Build some more pedestrian overpasses and underpasses on the existing line. Probably can build quite a few for half a billion dollars.

[logicbomb]

Does anyone know if Southern Railway of British Columbia (SRY) still owns the old ROW that runs parallel to the expo line from Joyce to New Westminster? I recall being informed that was a major reason why we haven't seen the full development of a "greenway" down this corridor.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by spm2013

I guess the NIMBY profile is intact in Surrey/White Rock





http://www.peacearchnews.com/news/233678581.html

they're all white people. LOL.

[Klazu]

Maybe we will one day get our high-speed rail connection to the US - thanks to China.