DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by RyanD

I'm trying to not be a hamplanet this year, so when I fix my bike I'll hopefully bring that down to 50-60%. But here's the thing, come cold weather, I'm not biking to work, Target, KS, Safeway, etc. I'm going to be the crudder in the crowd and agree that bikes are not a year round form of 'transit'. I still look at them as fair weather commuter modes, as much as I love biking.

Now, I would still love to see a Colorado Blvd Street car, and especially a Cherry Creek since I'm about a mile south of CC. Then it's just a quick bus trip down University and a SC ride from Cherry Creek. That would be heavenly. However, it's also a quick bus ride to the University LRT as well. I just have to get used to the neighborhood.

I moved to Capitol Hill when I was 19, so now, 6 years later, having to use a car to get everywhere is really pissing me off and it annoys me. So I'm going to do a little experiment as I get settled in here (and once I fix my bike). I'm going to print a calendar and mark each day with what form of transit I use and where. I'm not hardcore on any form whether it be bikes, car, bus, train or helicopter. So it will be interesting to see what I use this summer!

Yea, this past winter on one one of those miserable -10 degree days (few and far between here) I saw a guy riding his mountain bike home along Speer (that's a death wish right there) and I though: how cool! But, not for me.

The nice thing is there are many days throughout the winter where cycling is still doing and actually quite enjoyable.

After college, I lived in Vail for 5 years. Everyone rode the bus. Housekeepers, teachers, tourists, millionaires, students, lift attendants, etc.

That is a small town and you do NOT need a car. The bus is consistent, clean, and most importantly FREE. At the end of the day, people think with their wallets.

[denconyny]

The public transportation system within the City and County of Denver, absent bus, is almost totally non-existent, except for a few stops inside of the city limits along the currently developed Fastracks routes. There will also be a few more added as the East Line, North Line, and a couple of others of lines are added. With all done in total, there still won't be enough to actually meet the public transportation needs within the City, and least from my POV.

As mentioned, Colfax, Broadway, Colorado Blvd, maybe Federal Blvd, and possibly a few other thoroughfares are definitely suited for more than just buses. It will probably require studies (as if there hasn't been enough already) to get a system coordinated within the City. I know that Streetcars seem to be the cost-effective preference, but going underground is probably a better solution, even though at present costs would appear to be prohibitive for these at this time. But..... in terms of speed, efficiency, safety and even desirability, this is what the City needs to be considering.

With that, Denver has a unique situation in terms of its physical/geographical composition. We have a downtown area, and there we have offices, the 16th Street Mall, a major league ballpark, theatre and live entertainment, museums, architecture (both old and new), fine dining, and other amenities consistent with a DT area. However, what is lacking DT is major premium shopping, and the bulk of which in the City is located at Cherry Creek. This breakup of geography, I feel, breaks up what allure the City has as being many things to many people, and being an attractive regional destination for any of those who would want to take an all encompassing (if that's the correct way to phrase this) adventure to the City. The great cities in the world - New York, London, Chicago, I could go on - all have the same DT amenities that we have as I've mentioned above plus premium shopping located within their DT areas..... but DT Denver lacks the premium DT shopping.

So on the subject of intracity transportation here, one of the first goals would be to bridge the geography of DT and Cherry Creek. A subway that would take some three or four minutes at most from Union Station to Cherry Creek (maybe with one stop at most along the way, but no more) would, I think, basically make DT and Cherry Creek virtually the same geography. It would be a boon for both City residents of DT and Cherry Creek, as well as more attractive for those out of town visitors to the area much more appealing, as such subway would virtually make DT and Cherry Creek one and the same. And the fact that the premium shopping in Denver is not located DT, but in Cherry Creek, and the two are too close in proximity for many premium retailers to have locations in both areas, is also in a way a handicap.

So that's just my thoughts as to where to begin with intracity transit in Denver. I'm sure that I'll hear from a lot from those that disagree (and I would welcome it) but to have the image of DT Denver having its premium shopping in the DT area, a high speed underground transportation system connecting DT and Cherry Creek could do wonders in in this direction.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

That would probably not be considered a close-in neighborhood. Plus 80% is not 100%. Good for you: a step (no pun intended) in the right direction.

That's a real problem considering that, back of the napkin here, 90-95% of the metro area's population lives as far or farther from the core. You keep talking about Highland and its travel characteristics - you realize that's a neighborhood that actually lost population at the last census. In a metro that gains half a million or so in a decade. Sort of the definition of insignificant there, what's happening with transportation patterns in Highland. Need to think bigger picture. And if you're writing off Cory Merrill... yeesh, you need to get out more, and see how the other 90% live.

[bunt_q]

Ryan, I'm really looking forward to seeing what sort of mode share you get from helicopter commuting. I think that's a winner for those days when the roads are just too icy for biking.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Ryan, I'm really looking forward to seeing what sort of mode share you get from helicopter commuting. I think that's a winner for those days when the roads are just too icy for biking.

I'm just disappointed drone isn't on that list.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by denconyny

The public transportation system within the City and County of Denver, absent bus, is almost totally non-existent, except for a few stops inside of the city limits along the currently developed Fastracks routes. There will also be a few more added as the East Line, North Line, and a couple of others of lines are added. With all done in total, there still won't be enough to actually meet the public transportation needs within the City, and least from my POV.

As mentioned, Colfax, Broadway, Colorado Blvd, maybe Federal Blvd, and possibly a few other thoroughfares are definitely suited for more than just buses. It will probably require studies (as if there hasn't been enough already) to get a system coordinated within the City. I know that Streetcars seem to be the cost-effective preference, but going underground is probably a better solution, even though at present costs would appear to be prohibitive for these at this time. But..... in terms of speed, efficiency, safety and even desirability, this is what the City needs to be considering.

With that, Denver has a unique situation in terms of its physical/geographical composition. We have a downtown area, and there we have offices, the 16th Street Mall, a major league ballpark, theatre and live entertainment, museums, architecture (both old and new), fine dining, and other amenities consistent with a DT area. However, what is lacking DT is major premium shopping, and the bulk of which in the City is located at Cherry Creek. This breakup of geography, I feel, breaks up what allure the City has as being many things to many people, and being an attractive regional destination for any of those who would want to take an all encompassing (if that's the correct way to phrase this) adventure to the City. The great cities in the world - New York, London, Chicago, I could go on - all have the same DT amenities that we have as I've mentioned above plus premium shopping located within their DT areas..... but DT Denver lacks the premium DT shopping.

So on the subject of intracity transportation here, one of the first goals would be to bridge the geography of DT and Cherry Creek. A subway that would take some three or four minutes at most from Union Station to Cherry Creek (maybe with one stop at most along the way, but no more) would, I think, basically make DT and Cherry Creek virtually the same geography. It would be a boon for both City residents of DT and Cherry Creek, as well as more attractive for those out of town visitors to the area much more appealing, as such subway would virtually make DT and Cherry Creek one and the same. And the fact that the premium shopping in Denver is not located DT, but in Cherry Creek, and the two are too close in proximity for many premium retailers to have locations in both areas, is also in a way a handicap.

So that's just my thoughts as to where to begin with intracity transit in Denver. I'm sure that I'll hear from a lot from those that disagree (and I would welcome it) but to have the image of DT Denver having its premium shopping in the DT area, a high speed underground transportation system connecting DT and Cherry Creek could do wonders in in this direction.

Don't worry about the shopping. As all the rabble is being priced out of downtown the rich that are left there are going to bring the shopping.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

How are we going to have European density with our current zoning? I'm no expert but 3/4 of Lohi has SFH zoning...

Parts of downtown are actually getting sorta, kinda, close to some. And where converting many of the streets to have good separate bike lanes would probably have a noticeable effect on what the people there use.

[bunt_q]

LoHi is not an area where you're going to have European density, nor are any of the other core neighborhoods. That's not what we want, as Cirrus mentioned about the difficulties in upzoning residential areas. The only place Denver is comfortable with density is in our underutilized nowheres, seas of parking, former industrial warehouse districts, freight corridors - places where there is nobody to fight it. Our zoning doesn't allow for a lot of things, but you're not going to change that politically. Two words: West Highland. They sued the city for a year to stop a single 5-story building. Nobody in their right mind goes into a public meeting and talks about changing the zoning for more density.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

That's a real problem considering that, back of the napkin here, 90-95% of the metro area's population lives as far or farther from the core. You keep talking about Highland and its travel characteristics - you realize that's a neighborhood that actually lost population at the last census. In a metro that gains half a million or so in a decade. Sort of the definition of insignificant there, what's happening with transportation patterns in Highland. Need to think bigger picture. And if you're writing off Cory Merrill... yeesh, you need to get out more, and see how the other 90% live.

Wait, isn't the RTD or fastracks or whatever its called supposed to serve those people who do not live in the core? If it doesn't, then wow, what a colossal fail.

I think Highland, Capital Hill, etc. are good examples of some fine close-in, former streetcar neighborhoods. Capital Hill probably doesn't gain population because its practically all built out. I would be suprised if Lohi lost population, given the number of large apartment projects that replaced derelict old bungalows. The boundary for Highland is large and there were no doubt many poorer people displaced. Maybe that factors into the equation. It will be interesting to see the next census. I would imagine a gain.

I've spent ample time in pretty much every neighborhood in Denver (and the suburbs) through my past job. When it came time to buy, my wife and I were very educated and knew where we wanted to be. We got less in Lohi but our #1 criteria was location, walkability, etc. Not whether I could fit my homebrew equipment in my 2 car garage.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Parts of downtown are actually getting sorta, kinda, close to some. And where converting many of the streets to have good separate bike lanes would probably have a noticeable effect on what the people there use.

True, would love to see some other neighborhoods be allowed to look like Capital Hill...

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

LoHi is not an area where you're going to have European density, nor are any of the other core neighborhoods. That's not what we want, as Cirrus mentioned about the difficulties in upzoning residential areas. The only place Denver is comfortable with density is in our underutilized nowheres, seas of parking, former industrial warehouse districts, freight corridors - places where there is nobody to fight it. Our zoning doesn't allow for a lot of things, but you're not going to change that politically. Two words: West Highland. They sued the city for a year to stop a single 5-story building. Nobody in their right mind goes into a public meeting and talks about changing the zoning for more density.

Actually, didn't the landowner win? I expect to see condos on that site at some point, hopefully 5 stories for all 3 buildings.

And, in Lohi, there are many 5 story apartment buildings going in, mixed with with smaller multi-family structures, and commercial nodes. Isn't that European? Or at least back to the early-American city building template.

I was referring to the blocks on blocks of zoning like U-TU-B and the like. Would be nice to have that be U-MX-3 so that you could build a 3 family dwelling with minimal set backs and near-zero lot lines.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

I think Highland, Capital Hill, etc. are good examples of some fine close-in, former streetcar neighborhoods. Capital Hill probably doesn't gain population because its practically all built out. I would be suprised if Lohi lost population, given the number of large apartment projects that replaced derelict old bungalows. The boundary for Highland is large and there were no doubt many poorer people displaced. Maybe that factors into the equation. It will be interesting to see the next census. I would imagine a gain.

I would be surprised if there was a gain. The lower income families that were driven out tend to have larger household sizes than the higher income households that replaced them. Now if you and your wife have three kids and your parents move in with you than you've done your part to maintain population parity.

As for the question of whether FasTracks is meant to serve people outside of the core, the answer is yes. But the caveat is that it's meant to serve those people by giving them a station to drive to to take the train into downtown. FasTracks is a commuter transit service first, and a means for communities to build high-density urban nodes second. Somewhere in a distant sixth or seventh is the inner-city transit mission that is represented by the Central Corridor extension.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Ryan, I'm really looking forward to seeing what sort of mode share you get from helicopter commuting. I think that's a winner for those days when the roads are just too icy for biking.

Oh man let me tell you, it's great. I take off at the Darth Vader tower, and land at St. Joe's. There's a little bit of walking involved but meh. There are some days I just feel like spending gallons to the mile...

Originally Posted by enjo13

I'm just disappointed drone isn't on that list.

I'm getting there! Some of my drone funds went to moving, security deposit, etc. But still workin' on it!

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

I would be suprised if Lohi lost population, given the number of large apartment projects that replaced derelict old bungalows.

It's a common stage in gentrification. When it was a poor neighborhood, every housing unit was stacked full with lots of people. Now that it's redeveloping there are more units, but the number of people living in each unit is lower.

This happens all the time. Every city in America spent the 10 years from 2000-2010 wondering why its inner city neighborhoods were booming but their populations were still declining. The good news is it hits a tipping point and eventually turns around.

We know from census data that LoHi lost population. It's not a surprise. But it's also not a long term situation, nor really a problem (except as it relates to gentrification/displacement, which is a problem but isn't what we're talking about here).

Originally Posted by bunt_q

90-95% of the metro area's population lives as far or farther from the core

True enough. And largely (admittedly not completely) irrelevant to a discussion about how to best serve the trips of the 5-10% in the core.

The fact that most people in Highlands Ranch will drive for most trips does not mean we shouldn't build transit downtown from Highlands Ranch, nor does it mean we shouldn't have bike lanes in LoHi. It does mean bike lanes in LoHi shouldn't be the only discussion we have. That is a totally legitimate criticism. But those aren't the same statements.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

True enough. And largely (admittedly not completely) irrelevant to a discussion about how to best serve the trips of the 5-10% in the core.

I think you missed the point. The neighborhood he was writing off is a neighborhood that is, in nearly everybody's mind, a core Denver neighborhood. It's west of Colorado and north of I-25. If that's not within the reach of what we should be focusing on for a workable transit area, and a workable area for densifying the City, then we're talking about an incredibly narrow area. Aren't you the one who's all about big-tent urbanism? I don't see the Colorado and Cherry Creek corridors, and their surrounding neighborhoods, as being all that different from the Highland(s) neighborhoods, or even Cap Hill; places where development potential is somewhat limited. If you're only talking core downtown neighborhoods, then you're going to have a heck of a time funding anything. (Take a look at a map of Denver Council Districts if you're wondering how the City's population is distributed.) There's a lot of gray area between Highland Ranch and Union Station.

Are we only focused on a 1-mile radius of downtown, now? Maybe we need to create a subforum for that too, so make it three - Downtown-Snobs, Real Denver, and then the rest of the Front Range.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

But it's also not a long term situation, nor really a problem (except as it relates to gentrification/displacement, which is a problem but isn't what we're talking about here).

I think you miss the point here too. Maybe it's an East Coast thing, where significant urban growth in real numbers isn't terribly common. But gentrification or not, we're talking about a City that's added 50,000 people in three years. There are neighborhoods adding people somewhere, in significant numbers, and (hopefully) not just in Stapleton and GVR. If LoHi isn't one of them, and isn't one that's open to changing that, then perhaps it's not the place we need to direct our sharpest focus on transportation alternatives.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I think you missed the point. The neighborhood he was writing off is a neighborhood that is, in nearly everybody's mind, a core Denver neighborhood.

Reference (star is where I live). I still live within the 'triangle'. Granted I am pretty close to LRT to get downtown. 1.5 miles to the Colorado Station, 1.3 miles to University.

[bobg]

I cannot think of a single person outside of those on this forum that thinks Cory-Merill is a core neighborhood. Edgewater, Glendale, Lakewood, and Wheat Ridge have large swaths of land closer to DT than the center of Cory-Merrill

That said the Colorado Blvd corridor is a key transportation corridor for the city. It also has substantial potential for strip mall redevelopments. Since Cory-Merill borders Colorado Blvd I think it merits some improvement.

I would never equate Cory-Merill to Highland as Cory-Merill has been predominately middle to upper middle class single family residential for decades. Highland has a substantially different history, zoning, and characteristics (although the income levels are getting close).

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by bobg

I cannot think of a single person outside of those on this forum that thinks Cory-Merill is a core neighborhood.

What about Congress Park or Platt Park? What do you consider to the core neighborhoods? West Highland?

What are the neighborhoods the forum thinks "count." And which ones are basically Highlands Ranch?

[bobg]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

What about Congress Park or Platt Park? What do you consider to the core neighborhoods? West Highland?

What are the neighborhoods the forum thinks "count." And which ones are basically Highlands Ranch?

It's not that black and white. Just because it's not a central core neighborhood it doesn't mean it's Highlands Ranch or that it doesn't "count".

Cory-Merrill is defined in the zoning code as having a neighborhood context of urban edge and I think that's a good way to put it.

[Wizened Variations]

I suspect that a few of you, at least, had to be a janitor sometime during your college or high school lives. So, I also suspect that the few of you know how to clean.

Both Frontier planes I rode this weekend were filthy. Not in terms of loose trash, but in terms of the half hearted attempts to remove that aerosol mix composed of minute parts of hydraulic fluid, cabin dust, etc., that tends to accumulate on plastic surfaces.

When you clean something off that has one color, the cleaned surface should be one color, not a large series of sponge wide streaks of various shades of the same color.

Bathrooms were dirty on concourse A. By dirty, I am not referring to the floor, which was shiny. I am referring to the thick accumulation of soap film on sinks. (Soap film does not accumulate in one day.)

In the east terminal, sponge streaks and missed spots were evident on many surfaces.

I also smelled a lot of moldy, dirty carpet.

Come on, DIA! Don't ruin first impressions with dirt!