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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2014, 4:05 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
This is an extreme example, but check out the sidewalk along the Bell switching building. Can't even walk side-by-side.
There's nothing to walk for on that side of the street anyway.

I prefer buildings to be closer to the street, not set back. Ottawa has a stupid fixation about setbacks and open space and sunlight and other assorted crap.
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  #102  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2014, 2:53 PM
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But isn't this more about creating pedestrian space by taking away from the road instead of about buildings being right at the sidewalk? We could fix the southern side of Albert by widening the sidewalk by taking from the cars (not that anyone would want to walk next to Bell, which I'm sure planners were aware of when they did this strip). With smaller, older streets that may be harder to do.
Downtown Moves will narrow the streets for wider sidewalks, but as you said, not as simple with older, narrower streets. It's nice when developers take the initiative with set backs and/or arcades.
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2014, 2:55 PM
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There's nothing to walk for on that side of the street anyway.

I prefer buildings to be closer to the street, not set back. Ottawa has a stupid fixation about setbacks and open space and sunlight and other assorted crap.
People walk through downtown east-west. Why should they cross the street to an overcrowded sidewalk for one block?

I can sort of understand your hatred for parks and plazas, but set backs for wider sidewalks, come on!
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 7:30 PM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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I do agree that the city shouldn't be footing the bill for this clean-up, that the developer spent more money on this property than they probably should have, and the developer should not be claiming they need a taller building to recuperate lost profits for a poor business decision.

That being said, certain people are claiming the community is against this building being taller than what's in the CDP. Have people changed their minds about this project? That the public consultation and amendments to the proposal were not enough to please them? Or do we just have certain "prominent community representatives" who oppose it based on the grounds that the CDP should be the ultimate word of god, that they personally oppose it so it should not be built?

Quote:
Hobbs wants city to pay to clean up Wellington Street brownfield

By Matthew Pearson, OTTAWA CITIZEN April 30, 2014 1:25 PM

Hobbs wants city to pay to clean up Wellington Street brownfield

Coun. Katherine Hobbs says having the city pick up the cost of remediating a Wellington Street brownfield might be the only option available to make the site economically viable.
Photograph by: Garth Gullekson , Ottawa Citizen

OTTAWA — Katherine Hobbs wants the city to pay the entire cost of cleaning up a contaminated site in Wellington Village so that a developer can finally build something on the property.

In a motion to the finance committee, the Kitchissippi councillor is asking for a special exemption for 1445 and 1451 Wellington St. W., under the city’s brownfields policy, to cover the full cost of rehabilitating the land.

The city’s current policy, revised in 2010, offers a reduction in development charges and other tax measures as an incentive for companies to redevelop these often vacant or underutilized sites where past uses have resulted in contamination. But under the policy, the city will only pick up 50 per cent of the tab.

Hobbs’s motion says the province has changed regulations regarding the level of remediation required for residential construction, resulting in additional costs to clean up the sites, which are just east of the intersection of Island Park Drive and Wellington Street West.

Hobbs said last week that she was “loath” to suggest a change or exemption to the current brownfields policy, but noted that it might be the only option available to make the site economically viable as numerous developers have walked away citing the combination of provincial rules, the current brownfields policy and the area’s height restriction.

She said the alternative — a derelict lot — is unacceptable to both her and the community.

Mizrahi Developments has said the high cost of remediation as one of the reasons it applied last week for a zoning amendment to build a 12-storey luxury condo tower on the property, which is currently zoned for a maximum of nine storeys.

Hobbs wants the city to approve the brownfields exemption so that the developer can build something within the allowable zoning.

Hobbs is likely facing an uphill battle. The city’s planning department is recommending against the finance committee’s waiving 100 per cent of the costs. City staff suggest that should councillors want to revisit the funding for the brownfields program that they do so in the next term of council.

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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Hobbs+...ton+Street+brownfield/9791080/story.html
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 8:22 PM
chiefboyle chiefboyle is offline
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"it might be the only option available to make the site economically viable"

If the site is not viable today, won't the value of the land then decrease to where it is economically viable for the next developer to buy it?

Mizrahi gambled and may have lost on it.. that's business. They can sell the land at a price that allows it to be developed within current remediation policies and zoning limits.

It need not remain 'derelict'.
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  #106  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 1:39 PM
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Not so simple. If the cost of a clean up exceeds the value of the land as zoned, or exceeds the value of the land as zoned once cleaned up, it isn't worth it even if the land is sold for $0.
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  #107  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 2:08 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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The lot was listed for $1.95 million for 11,761 square feet site area - $166 per square foot site area. Not sure what it (or Bella's) actually sold for.. or if any sale has actually closed.
http://f.tlcollect.com/fr2/513/48208/1451_Wellington_Street.pdf
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  #108  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 4:09 PM
S-Man S-Man is offline
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This project and the use of it as THE BIG THING in a candidate's battle in Kitchissippi ward is annoying.

I'd like to see it built as proposed. I don't like the city shelling out any extra cash in a situation like this. Yes, it's larger than zoning, but as someone has already mentioned, how many people were really that incensed about this project?

How many?

Seems to me it's just become a (12-storey) lightning rod amongst two candidates and their supporters, who are battling each other in a bid to appear the most sympathetic to the community plan.

Politics! God, how I hate it.
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  #109  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 3:30 PM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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Apparently this application will be going before council May 13, with the report rejecting this building. And Katherine Hobbs said she's withdrawing her suggestion of the city covering the brownfield clean-up.

I'm not optimistic city council will vote to approve this building, and unless Mizrahi is confident appealing that decision to the OMB will be fruitful it could lead to them withdrawing the application altogether.

Is the Arts Court site considered brownfield? I'm just wondering if Mizrahi would be bitter enough to withdraw from the Arts Court project is this building goes through. I would be bitter, especially considering all the time and effort with consultations and proposals only to have it rejected.
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  #110  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 3:44 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Just for clarification, planning committee is meeting on the 13th and would look at this first before going to Council. If it's on the May 13th agenda (sometimes reports get withdrawn last minute in this situation) it should be posted later today at http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agendaminutes/index_en.aspx
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  #111  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 3:45 PM
JackBauer24 JackBauer24 is offline
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Originally Posted by defishel View Post
Apparently this application will be going before council May 13, with the report rejecting this building. And Katherine Hobbs said she's withdrawing her suggestion of the city covering the brownfield clean-up.

I'm not optimistic city council will vote to approve this building, and unless Mizrahi is confident appealing that decision to the OMB will be fruitful it could lead to them withdrawing the application altogether.

Is the Arts Court site considered brownfield? I'm just wondering if Mizrahi would be bitter enough to withdraw from the Arts Court project is this building goes through. I would be bitter, especially considering all the time and effort with consultations and proposals only to have it rejected.
The approval process builders/developers have to go through in this city is ridiculous - in both the amount of time it takes and the cost. That, combined with the Green Belt, are the reasons why Ottawa has such a large geographical footprint (aka density is relatively low compared to other major North American cities) - which leads into other problems like transportation and property taxes. Throw in the high development cost (that's a cost builders have to pay for each unit they build on new projects), which is increasing soon, and it's not surprising that many developers avoid Ottawa. Money that is currently wasted on the costly approval process, could actually be spent on the construction of the project, which theoretically would result in higher quality buildings. But that;s just my two cents.

I really hope the city does something to change it otherwise out-of-town quality builders like Mizrahi simply won't come to Ottawa, or they won't build to the same quality (aka Minto in Toronto v Minto in Ottawa = difference is night and day).
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  #112  
Old Posted May 6, 2014, 3:46 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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While I don't agree with the city paying 100% of the clean up costs, it's ridiculous today's committee voted against at least doing a review of the brownfield policy to see if it's working.

It would be sad to see this proposal die. I'm sure Mizrahi will tell other Toronto developers about his experience of unsuccessfully trying to invest in Ottawa. Some reputation management is in order here.
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  #113  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 1:16 AM
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  #114  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 1:20 AM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Ugh... What can be said...
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  #115  
Old Posted May 7, 2014, 5:24 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Too much green for brownfield cleanup

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 02:52 PM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 05:21 PM EDT


A bid to have the city pay the full cost of cleaning a contaminated property eyed for a condo development was shot down by the mayor and councillors Tuesday.

Kitchissippi Coun. Katherine Hobbs asked for support from council's finance and economic development committee to pay 100% of the remediation at 1445 and 1451 Wellington St. at Island Park Dr.

It was a unique request since the city has never funded 100% of the cleanup cost at a privately owned contaminated site.

A city brownfield policy covers 50% of the cleanup costs for companies looking to redevelop contaminated land.

Hobbs wanted the city to pay the full cost on the high-profile gateway property as a last-ditch effort to make a condo proposal by Mizrahi Developments comply with the nine-storey height limit in a community design plan.

A 12-storey proposal is not supported by city planning staff, Hobbs said.

The idea is, if the developer can build higher, it would have more revenue to fund the brownfield cleanup.

Alta Vista Coun. Peter Hume, council's planning chairman, tried to buy more time for Hobbs by suggesting that the developer prove it needs 100% of the cleanup costs.

The committee rejected the idea.

Covering 100% of a brownfield cleanup is "too rich for the taxpayers of Ottawa," Mayor Jim Watson said.

Builders should be aware of the cleanup costs of a contaminated site when they buy land, Watson said.

Seeing it was bound to fail, Hobbs withdrew her motion before a vote.

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Twitter: @JonathanWilling

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/05/06/too-much-green-for-brownfield-cleanup
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  #116  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 12:46 AM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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I agree the City should not pay a penny more for soil remediation than the current policy allows. That would indeed set a very bad precedent.

On the other hand, allowing the extra 3 measly floors, it would set a precedent that, if you want the extra height, you must have an excellent design, have vigorous consultations with the public and have the communities overwhelming support.

Enough with the red tape and bureaucracy. This is a good project all around. Get er' done!
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  #117  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 1:05 AM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I agree the City should not pay a penny more for soil remediation than the current policy allows. That would indeed set a very bad precedent.

On the other hand, allowing the extra 3 measly floors, it would set a precedent that, if you want the extra height, you must have an excellent design, have vigorous consultations with the public and have the communities overwhelming support.

Enough with the red tape and bureaucracy. This is a good project all around. Get er' done!
+1

If not, this sends a bad message to other developers, from Ottawa and elsewere. They may not want to put all the effort into dealing with Ottawa if it means nothing will come of it.
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  #118  
Old Posted May 8, 2014, 1:36 AM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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I think this is going to be a really interesting one both at committee and Council. This has been one of the most lobbied files recently. The local councillor likes the project, the neighbours support, and they are throwing in a Section 37 agreement to fund park improvements identified in the CDP. The BIA also supports and the community association is against the height increase in principle but "will not oppose" based on the design and consultation process. However Chair Hume has come out strongly against and staff have several concerns.

I don't have a guess on the odds, but remember that the politicians make the decisions and it would be quite difficult for an individual neighbour to oppose at the OMB unless they have money and/or a good understanding of the system.
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  #119  
Old Posted May 9, 2014, 1:40 AM
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A condo fight with a twist in Wellington West

By Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen May 6, 2014


Coun. Katherine Hobbs failed in what she called a “last-ditch attempt” to help a developer build a controversial condo at the northeast corner of Wellington Street West and Island Park Drive at council’s finance committee.

The fact that her colleagues wouldn’t support her suggestion that the city pick up the entire tab for the contaminated site’s clean up — instead of the usual 50 per cent — isn’t too surprising. Granting an exemption for one particular developer is just not on. It took Mayor Jim Watson to point out the obvious: “We’re going to be having other companies asking for the same.”

What may seem surprising is that a councillor is trying to help a developer bend the rules. That’s especially true for the first-time Kitchissippi councillor, who is sometimes accused of being too “development friendly” (meaning she sometimes supports tall buildings). Given it’s an election year, you’d think Hobbs would be loath to be seen supporting Toronto-based Mizrahi put up a 12-storey condo where only nine-storeys is allowed.

But from the start, almost everything about this project has been different and it’s producing some unexpected results.

Developer Sam Mizrahi started by consulting extensively with the community. Now, he didn’t engage with neighbours, businesses and community associations out of the goodness of his heart. Mizrahi says he needs the property rezoned because, among other things, the province has changed regulations regarding the level of remediation required for residential construction, resulting in additional cleanup costs. And the developer has hired some high-priced local help to argue his position, from private planners to lobbyists.

Still, by actually acting upon community feedback in designing a beautiful building and promising to expand and maintain an existing parkette, Mizrahi appears to have won many to his side. Except for two key parties: the city’s planning department and the chair of the planning committee, Coun. Peter Hume.

“It undermines everything we’ve been talking about, about certainty, about predictability, about the speed of development,” Hume fumed to the Citizen’s David Reevely. (It’s a little rich, by the way, for Hume to complain this story “has all been done through the newspaper” considering he unilaterally approached the Citizen with those line-in-the-sand comments.)

So the planning officials want to stick with the Community Design Plan, a fairly fresh planning document that calls for a max of nine storeys at the corner. And good for them — usually we’re complaining that the city planners are ignoring official planning documents and granting all kinds of exemptions.

Ironically, though, it’s those other exemptions that are the issue. Why, wonder residents, would the city grant additional height in cases where neighbours are against it, but are denying one that many residents want?

The conundrum here is that every argument is somewhat compelling.

Mizrahi is paying just under $6 million for the property — is it someone else’s fault if he overpaid? As Watson said, it’s a “buyer beware” situation. However, a number of developers have walked away from the site because they say they couldn’t make it work financially at nine storeys. Hobbs worries that the corner will simply remain “a derelict lot” for many years to come.

On the one hand, using planning mechanisms — in this case, extra height — isn’t an appropriate way to deal with contamination issues. A rezoning approval should be based on planning principles only.

On the other hand, “planning principles” have resulted in rezonings that, well, suck. Take, for example, the looming nine-storey building at the former convent site in Westboro, just a few blocks west of the property in question. No setbacks, a too-narrow sidewalk, banal design at best. It’s no wonder some residents in the Wellington West area are willing to accept Mizrahi’s request for additional height — at least they’re being promised an attractive building.

A stalemate? Hardly.

Mizrahi’s application is expected on the agenda for the May 13 planning committee meeting, even though the planning staff is recommending against its approval. This is highly unusual. Most of the time, if the city’s planners are not willing to approve a project, it’s simply withdrawn. The fact that Mizrahi is moving ahead suggests he thinks a majority of councillors are on his side.

We’ll see. But it will be interesting — indeed, bizarre — to see residents come out to argue in favour of extra height, and against city planners.

[email protected]
twitter.com/jchianello

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Ch...twist+Wellington+West/9812974/story.html
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  #120  
Old Posted May 13, 2014, 4:44 PM
citydwlr citydwlr is online now
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In case you want to follow along with today's city planning committee meeting, the Ottawa Sun's Jon Willing is covering the events today via Twitter:

https://twitter.com/JonathanWilling

It looks like many residents have come out, uncharacteristically, to praise the Mizrahi development; a lot of them saying they'd prefer the development over the current dilapidated ruins of an auto-body shop. Pretty cool! Apparently the council is baffled by the reaction...

Last edited by citydwlr; May 13, 2014 at 6:19 PM. Reason: changed "council" to "planning committee"
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