The SSP Calgary Baby/Children Thread

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by RWin

How is the learners permit thing going? My oldest got her permit when she was 16 and still hasen't bothered with her road test 2 years down the road. My youngest is 17 and still hasn't bothered getting a learners.

I just don't understand. When I was 16 (and living in BC), I got my learners on my birthday and did the road test 3 months later. Everyone wanted to get their license back then. It seems that today, my kids, their friends, and even my friends kids just don't want to bother.

As an early millennial, I got my drivers around 18, that said that was driven by my living location and the need to drive. If I lived where I live now (middle ring suburb, with excellent transit) I likely wouldn't bother, the cost/stress-benefit relation wouldn't work (it barely made sense at that point, early '00's pre-smartphones and with 60-80c gas).

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by freeweed

1. You didn't have graduated licensing (I'm assuming, but maybe BC had it decades ago?).

2. Cost. Are you buying her a car and offering to pay the $1000/year insurance?

Things are just different, and much more of a pain. I feel bad for kids today. I understand WHY we've gone this route, 16-21 year old males are something like 500x as likely to have an accident, but still...

I do wonder how this coming generation expects to get to work though. As great as transit is in a city like Calgary, the reality is that most entry jobs will need a car to get to. I guess Mom&Dad Taxi Service will be a booming business in 5-10 years.

Fixed that for you, girls get a sweet deal on insurance (or at least they used to). I remember paying $50+ per month to be an occasional driver on my parents 1986 truck.

Transit is surprisingly good to some of the industrial areas, I used transit to get to a few warehousing/labour jobs over the years. That said the instant you happen to work outside of normal hours it becomes horrible.

[RWin]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

That said the instant you happen to work outside of normal hours it becomes horrible.

Yeah, I worked for a short time at an office park on 11st SE right next to Glenmore Trail. I am a transit fan and tried getting there for the first couple of months that way. It took 2 busses and a train and even during peak hours took nearly an hour and a half. It took 20 minutes in the car. Guess how the transit fan got to work?

[RWin]

Originally Posted by freeweed

1. You didn't have graduated licensing (I'm assuming, but maybe BC had it decades ago?).

2. Cost. Are you buying her a car and offering to pay the $4000/year insurance?

Things are just different, and much more of a pain. I feel bad for kids today. I understand WHY we've gone this route, 16-21 year old males are something like 500x as likely to have an accident, but still...

I do wonder how this coming generation expects to get to work though. As great as transit is in a city like Calgary, the reality is that most entry jobs will need a car to get to. I guess Mom&Dad Taxi Service will be a booming business in 5-10 years.

No graduated licensing. The first one was good for 2 years instead of 5 but it was a full license.

We have no plans to buy anyone a car. She can drive ours. But my belief is that owning a car is her responsibility.

Even with good transit, you never know when a drivers license will come in handy. She is planning on moving to St. John's this fall and I'd like her to have her license by then. I think it may complicate things if she wants to get it after she moves.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

As an early millennial, I got my drivers around 18, that said that was driven by my living location and the need to drive. If I lived where I live now (middle ring suburb, with excellent transit) I likely wouldn't bother, the cost/stress-benefit relation wouldn't work (it barely made sense at that point, early '00's pre-smartphones and with 60-80c gas).

This is something I don't "get" with the current generation of teens. I can understand not wanting to waste money on a car. I can understand not wanting to spend the money on insurance when you're 19. I can understand fuel costs and the inconvenience of dealing with everything related to maintenance.

But not getting the license itself? It's baffling. All it takes is a small change in public transit and suddenly life becomes very difficult. Or moving to a different town/city for a work opportunity. Or going on damn near any vacation in North America - doing so without being able to drive limits you so much.

I guess we'll see what happens when these kids actually become adults, which seems to be around 23-25 these days. Heck, I didn't get my license right away (all my friends did on their 16th birthday, practically) but by my early 20s, I recognized how damned inconvenient it was. The only reason I survived without one for so long was that I was basically dirt poor, and in Manitoba your driving record really isn't that big of a deal. The monthly bus pass was all I could afford for transportation and vacations? lol. But a lot of the kids doing this are well off, and have a lot more opportunities than I did at their ages. I just don't see why a test and a $40 fee is such a big impediment. Hell, have the license, don't drive for 5 or 6 years, and if you ever DO get a vehicle, you'll start off with a stellar driving record! I'd be pushing heavily for this if I was a parent. Maybe I'm just looking at my own experience and seeing how much it impaired me, and I couldn't even dream of affording a car until I was 25 or so.

[lubicon]

Things sure have changed, and Freeweed is probably right on a number of reasons why. Small town for me too and ALL my buddies wrote our learner's test on our 14th birthday (or as soon after that as the office was open) and then took our road test for our Class 5 the first available day after our 16th birthday. Some of my buddies even drove themselves to the road test!

Kids today (I can't believe I just said that) just seem not to see the value in getting their licence. As Freeweed has mentioned, how do they expect to get to work? Hell, how do they even think they are going to get a job without a licence? They are eliminating themselves from a ton of jobs that require a driver's licence. I just don't get it.

[Boris2k7]

*shrug*

I'm an early Millennial as well (mid-20's) and I got my Class 7 at 14 and my Class 5 (with GDL) at 16. I've been listed as a "new driver" for over a decade now and haven't seen much point in taking the advanced driving test to get the full license.

I went for about seven years without a personal vehicle, but for the last three years I've required a car to get to work (since I work in an industrial park and I'm not one of you lucky bastards who gets to work downtown).

I can really blame young people for giving up on driving. It seems like every few years it becomes even more onerous and costly.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by freeweed

This is something I don't "get" with the current generation of teens. I can understand not wanting to waste money on a car. I can understand not wanting to spend the money on insurance when you're 19. I can understand fuel costs and the inconvenience of dealing with everything related to maintenance.

But not getting the license itself? It's baffling. All it takes is a small change in public transit and suddenly life becomes very difficult. Or moving to a different town/city for a work opportunity. Or going on damn near any vacation in North America - doing so without being able to drive limits you so much.

I guess we'll see what happens when these kids actually become adults, which seems to be around 23-25 these days. Heck, I didn't get my license right away (all my friends did on their 16th birthday, practically) but by my early 20s, I recognized how damned inconvenient it was. The only reason I survived without one for so long was that I was basically dirt poor, and in Manitoba your driving record really isn't that big of a deal. The monthly bus pass was all I could afford for transportation and vacations? lol. But a lot of the kids doing this are well off, and have a lot more opportunities than I did at their ages. I just don't see why a test and a $40 fee is such a big impediment. Hell, have the license, don't drive for 5 or 6 years, and if you ever DO get a vehicle, you'll start off with a stellar driving record! I'd be pushing heavily for this if I was a parent. Maybe I'm just looking at my own experience and seeing how much it impaired me, and I couldn't even dream of affording a car until I was 25 or so.

It's a $80+ to renew a license, seems like a lot of carrying cost for something you don't use. Also to complete a road test you typically need a vehicle (only a small number of places will supply one) if you don't have access to one this can halt the whole process. Also IIRC the GDL advanced test was closer $100, so from learner permit to full licence you are out of pocket over $200, that money just purchased a new smartphone or any number of other items that have a higher priority.

The vacations I've enjoyed the most are the ones that didn't include a car, I specifically plan vacations so that I don't need one. The vacations that I have taken that required a car for all or a portion of the trip were stressful and annoying, I find driving in an unfamiliar vehicle in an unfamiliar city one of, if not the most annoying thing I could do. A familiar vehicle in an unfamiliar city is better but not by much.

Originally Posted by lubicon

Things sure have changed, and Freeweed is probably right on a number of reasons why. Small town for me too and ALL my buddies wrote our learner's test on our 14th birthday (or as soon after that as the office was open) and then took our road test for our Class 5 the first available day after our 16th birthday. Some of my buddies even drove themselves to the road test!

Kids today (I can't believe I just said that) just seem not to see the value in getting their licence. As Freeweed has mentioned, how do they expect to get to work? Hell, how do they even think they are going to get a job without a licence? They are eliminating themselves from a ton of jobs that require a driver's licence. I just don't get it.

That may be, but those same employers are also eliminated a huge section of possible employees by locating in a location that requires driving to get to. The portion of jobs that require driving as part of the job itself may be jobs this generation isn't interested in.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by freeweed

1. You didn't have graduated licensing (I'm assuming, but maybe BC had it decades ago?).

2. Cost. Are you buying her a car and offering to pay the $4000/year insurance?

Things are just different, and much more of a pain. I feel bad for kids today. I understand WHY we've gone this route, 16-21 year old males are something like 500x as likely to have an accident, but still...

I do wonder how this coming generation expects to get to work though. As great as transit is in a city like Calgary, the reality is that most entry jobs will need a car to get to. I guess Mom&Dad Taxi Service will be a booming business in 5-10 years.

If your parents drove you everywhere you needed to go would you have bothered? I likely wouldn't have.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by RWin

Yeah, I worked for a short time at an office park on 11st SE right next to Glenmore Trail. I am a transit fan and tried getting there for the first couple of months that way. It took 2 busses and a train and even during peak hours took nearly an hour and a half. It took 20 minutes in the car. Guess how the transit fan got to work?

Transit to the industrial locations definately isn't great, I've been fortunate the times that I worked there to live fairly directly on a transit route that served where I worked.

[RWin]

I find the lack of interest in getting a drivers license a little facinating and was curious why it's not important. I got my answer (not one answer since my kids are happy to tell me as well). It looks like we're on the verge of an us and them argument here and that wasn't the intent.

My kids probably think I'm as weird as I thought my parents were. Your kids will feel the same about you

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by RWin

I find the lack of interest in getting a drivers license a little facinating and was curious why it's not important. I got my answer (not one answer since my kids are happy to tell me as well). It looks like we're on the verge of an us and them argument here and that wasn't the intent.

My kids probably think I'm as weird as I thought my parents were. Your kids will feel the same about you

No us vs them intended here, mind sharing what you kids are telling you?

[RWin]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

No us vs them intended here, mind sharing what you kids are telling you?

Basically they don't need one. Happy to take the bus for the rest of their life.

And, our car is a manual. She is pretty much afraid of it.

[RWin]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

My son's tour of the Bow skygarden.

• Video Link

Thanks for the ear worm

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by RWin

Basically they don't need one. Happy to take the bus for the rest of their life.

And, our car is a manual. She is pretty much afraid of it.

Interesting, it'll be interesting to see if they regret not getting their licence when they reach their late 20's.

I can understand the manual thing, only recently learnt manual after driving for 10+ years, it was nerve wracking. I can only imagine how much more it would be if I had to constantly think about the rest of driving as you do as a new driver.

[freeweed]

This just seems like passport renewal. I know people who don't bother maintaining an active passport if they aren't going out of country in the immediate future, but... I've always kept mine current "just in case". And it's come in handy innumerable times - very short notice work trips that bring all sorts of benefits, plus short notice "boys trip" type vacations that can be a blast. Coincidentally a license has come in handy on both... I mean even if it's just once in a blue moon, it's still nice to have it handy.

A drivers license in AB is one of the cheapest things around. Maybe I've just forgotten what $80 every 5 years means to a kid. I'd just hate to be sitting there thinking "damn, if only I had done that"... like I said, it'll be interesting to see what happens in 10 years with people. Like it or not, so much of our society is car-oriented - while it's possible to structure 99.99% of your life away from them, I just don't see the point in actively preventing yourself from it. Simply visiting my sick mother in hospital a few years ago would have become a huge chore without being able to drive.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

I'm an early Millennial as well (mid-20's) and I got my Class 7 at 14 and my Class 5 (with GDL) at 16. I've been listed as a "new driver" for over a decade now and haven't seen much point in taking the advanced driving test to get the full license.

I went for about seven years without a personal vehicle, but for the last three years I've required a car to get to work (since I work in an industrial park and I'm not one of you lucky bastards who gets to work downtown).

So... you obviously have enough of a license that you can get to work. I imagine it would cover off those rare, spontaneous uses that I'm thinking of? What are you restricted from doing?

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by freeweed

So... you obviously have enough of a license that you can get to work. I imagine it would cover off those rare, spontaneous uses that I'm thinking of? What are you restricted from doing?

All I'm restricted from is having even a single drink before I get behind the wheel. 0.00% tolerance. That's it.

Oh, and having more passengers than I have seatbelts. But that goes without saying.

(I also don't get as many demerit points, but I don't have any demerits, and that's not a restriction)

EDIT: Oh, and I guess I also can't train someone with a class 7. But I'm single and don't have kids, so meh.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by freeweed

This just seems like passport renewal. I know people who don't bother maintaining an active passport if they aren't going out of country in the immediate future, but... I've always kept mine current "just in case". And it's come in handy innumerable times - very short notice work trips that bring all sorts of benefits, plus short notice "boys trip" type vacations that can be a blast. Coincidentally a license has come in handy on both... I mean even if it's just once in a blue moon, it's still nice to have it handy.

A drivers license in AB is one of the cheapest things around. Maybe I've just forgotten what $80 every 5 years means to a kid. I'd just hate to be sitting there thinking "damn, if only I had done that"... like I said, it'll be interesting to see what happens in 10 years with people. Like it or not, so much of our society is car-oriented - while it's possible to structure 99.99% of your life away from them, I just don't see the point in actively preventing yourself from it. Simply visiting my sick mother in hospital a few years ago would have become a huge chore without being able to drive.

I think you hit on the key point, the thought isn't I should do this I might need it one day, its that's an inconvenience, I'll do it someday when I need it, not realizing the time that is required to get it.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

All I'm restricted from is having even a single drink before I get behind the wheel. 0.00% tolerance. That's it.

Oh, and having more passengers than I have seatbelts. But that goes without saying.

(I also don't get as many demerit points, but I don't have any demerits, and that's not a restriction)

EDIT: Oh, and I guess I also can't train someone with a class 7. But I'm single and don't have kids, so meh.

This one always got me, since when is it legal for anyone to have more passengers than seatbelts?

Edit: And Cupcakes! Sorry for derailing the thread.