Tourist Attractions you would like to see in Calgary

[ue]

Originally Posted by speedog

With respect to a farmers' market, what do people consider a true farmers' market? Something like Calgary Farmers' Market or the Kingsland Farmers' Market or the Crossroads Market - which are more food courts with just a few actual farmers there?

Do people want a certified farmers' market in the core - not just a market which allows flea market stuff or resellers like Avon and such? Crossroads is not a certified farmers' market and doesn't call themselves one.

Would people rather have a real outdoor farmers' market that consists of mostly locally grown/produced produce/meats/jams/etc or locally produced artisan products - similar to Calgary's oldest certified farmers' market and also Calgary's largest outdoor seasonal farmers' market (Grassroots Northland since 1992)?

The biggest issue with an outdoor market comes down to the cost of the venue on which one operates a market - it's a very tricky balance between what the landlord charges and what the market charges for stall rent to their vendors. Some of these downtown markets in Edmonton, Vancouver and Toronto may very well be getting subsidized rents which makes the whole operation more viable but in Calgary, there currently isn't an availability of open space in the downtown core that is available at an realistic rent that makes an outdoor market feasible. Another problem is that there is already a glut of weekend markets in Calgary & area (Calgary Farmers, Kingsland Farmers, Crossroads, Blackfoot, South Fish Creek, Thorncliffe/Greenview, Inglewood, Bearspaw, Symons Valley, Cochrane, Millarville, Carstairs, Strathmore and Okotoks) - 14 weekend markets is a lot of stall spaces for the number of actual producers/vendors that are available.

Personally, I'd love to see an outdoor certified farmers' market in the core/beltline and probably the best place for it to get a start is from one of the community associations in those areas - problem is that they may not even have the space to do such. Another problem is it's very difficult to get established producers/vendors to give up a market they already may be at in exchange for a new market and or even opening up in a second, new stall at a new market.

Some might wonder how I have some insight with all of this - mostly because of a non-profit organization my wife is involved in runs a certified farmers' market here in Calgary and over the past 7 years, we've gained a lot of insight into what it takes to manage a farmers' market in Calgary. Believe it or not, rent costs versus stall income is a very big factor in the viability of an outdoor farmers' market in Calgary - The Hillhurst/Sunnyside market only just reopened in the past two years as well as the Triwood market. Triwood is still struggling and Sunnyside is only seeing success because of the live entertainment they can offer and the beer gardens as well.

Creating a new, outdoor certified farmers' market in the core/beltline would be a huge undertaking - see the Alberta Farmers' Market Association and the Alberta Approved Farmers' Markets web sites for more details regarding certified farmers' markets.

To be honest, I don't know much about Calgary Farmers Market or Crossroads. I just know those two are the more popular and "bigger" markets. But they're in odd locations and they never have the hype surrounding them like markets in practically every other city, so I haven't been, which is why I've refrained from giving my opinions of either place (aside from their odd locations).

The City Market in Edmonton is the city's oldest market. It started out where the Stanley Milner Library is now, and then I believe it went to the Boardwalk Market Building, until moving into what is now the City Market Art Lofts on 97 St. In 2004, the city decided to move the market outdoors to 104th St to help in the revitalization of that street, which was deemed to have huge potential. In the years since, the market has grown tremendously in popularity and has aided heavily in the revitalization of 104th St. It's now Downtown Edmonton's coolest street, even when the market is off.

For the City Market, they don't really take up any commercial land for their outdoor endeavours because the market happens right on the street, which is closed for a few blocks every Saturday from May long to Thanksgiving. So with that, I'm not sure what kinds of subsidies would be in place because the rent vendors are paying to be apart of the market aren't going to a landlord.

Something like this would work well on Stephen Ave too, especially since it has the benefit of already being closed of to vehicular traffic. I still like the Scarth St idea. The area around Tompkins Park would work too. Keep in mind this market could operate on a weekday or a Sunday, or operate multiple days per week. It doesn't have to be a Saturday market.

[speedog]

A farmers' market will never be a true tourist attraction - they're something that caters to a certain local population niche and if a tourist happens by, then that's just some extra gravy.

off-topic, too many people shop at what they believe to be a farmers' market when much of the produce being sold is not even produced by the people selling it. Then again, for many people just the idea of shopping for your food at a market as opposed to a grocery store gives them a sense, albeit often false, that they're doing something to help their local or regional economy.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by ue

To be honest, I don't know much about Calgary Farmers Market or Crossroads. I just know those two are the more popular and "bigger" markets. But they're in odd locations and they never have the hype surrounding them like markets in practically every other city, so I haven't been, which is why I've refrained from giving my opinions of either place (aside from their odd locations).

The City Market in Edmonton is the city's oldest market. It started out where the Stanley Milner Library is now, and then I believe it went to the Boardwalk Market Building, until moving into what is now the City Market Art Lofts on 97 St. In 2004, the city decided to move the market outdoors to 104th St to help in the revitalization of that street, which was deemed to have huge potential. In the years since, the market has grown tremendously in popularity and has aided heavily in the revitalization of 104th St. It's now Downtown Edmonton's coolest street, even when the market is off.

For the City Market, they don't really take up any commercial land for their outdoor endeavours because the market happens right on the street, which is closed for a few blocks every Saturday from May long to Thanksgiving. So with that, I'm not sure what kinds of subsidies would be in place because the rent vendors are paying to be apart of the market aren't going to a landlord.

Something like this would work well on Stephen Ave too, especially since it has the benefit of already being closed of to vehicular traffic. I still like the Scarth St idea. The area around Tompkins Park would work too. Keep in mind this market could operate on a weekday or a Sunday, or operate multiple days per week. It doesn't have to be a Saturday market.

So would the CoC be amicable to such an endeavour on Stephen Avenue? And would it be free for a market to set-up in? Our experience was that the CoC wasn't approachable on such an idea - they'd rather have the markets at community associations or in larger venues such as Calgary Farmers, Kingsland, Crossroads, etc. We know this because we looked at moving our market after the mall we're associated decided to start charging rent for the space we use in their parking lot and trust me, there just isn't a great location of a large enough size to properly host a good sized outdoor farmers' market.

Early weekday markets are another tough sell to vendors because that's when they do much of their production/preparation - hence why there are so few Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday markets in the city. Thursday's have more markets with the bulk of markets focused on the three day weekend span.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think an aquarium is a silly idea. Instead of focusing on our strengths, geology, energy, dinosaurs, in-land sea, evolution of glacier activities, and leveraging assets such as nose hill, we want to "import" an aquarium.

Instead of fighting our assets and strengths, we should be embracing them.

Hmm.... Maybe we could use advanced cloning techniques to make an aquarium filled with pre-historic dinosaur fish? Now THAT would be a tourist attraction!

[Riise]

Originally Posted by speedog

A farmers' market will never be a true tourist attraction - they're something that caters to a certain local population niche and if a tourist happens by, then that's just some extra gravy.

I wouldn't be so sure. When people visit me in London I always seem to take them to one of the bigger markets. As I'm living over here at the moment, when ever I visit London I have to go to Borough Market and Spitalfields at least once during my trip.

Markets are a good excursion for tourists because you can do a quick visit just to check out the hype or spend an entire afternoon depending on the size of the market.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Riise

I wouldn't be so sure. When people visit me in London I always seem to take them to one of the bigger markets. As I'm living over here at the moment, when ever I visit London I have to go to Borough Market and Spitalfields at least once during my trip.

Markets are a good excursion for tourists because you can do a quick visit just to check out the hype or spend an entire afternoon depending on the size of the market.

K, I was thinking tourist attraction in that a farmers' market would be on my check-list of things to see and do when in a new city - for most that would be the exception. Our family's first time in Montreal - no farmers' market was on our list. Same goes for Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle (and they've got a good one), San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Amsterdam (although we did stumble upon a neat farmers/flea market there), London (UK), Ottawa, Quebec City.

Now would I take a non-Calgarian to a farmers' market in Calgary as a touristy thing to do - dunno. Drumheller, Heritage Park, Glenbow would all come up first, maybe even the zoo and for a more unique experience, Red Rock Coulee down by Seven Persons.

[ue]

Originally Posted by speedog

So would the CoC be amicable to such an endeavour on Stephen Avenue? And would it be free for a market to set-up in? Our experience was that the CoC wasn't approachable on such an idea - they'd rather have the markets at community associations or in larger venues such as Calgary Farmers, Kingsland, Crossroads, etc. We know this because we looked at moving our market after the mall we're associated decided to start charging rent for the space we use in their parking lot and trust me, there just isn't a great location of a large enough size to properly host a good sized outdoor farmers' market.

Early weekday markets are another tough sell to vendors because that's when they do much of their production/preparation - hence why there are so few Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday markets in the city. Thursday's have more markets with the bulk of markets focused on the three day weekend span.

I honestly don't know the inner workings of how the City Market here is managed. I'm just telling you what I know as an outsider. However, I would surmise that in order to use city property like streets, sidewalks, or parks, that yes, you'd need to work with the City of Calgary. That being said, I don't think such an endeavour would have to be supported by the City like ours is here.

You're telling me of your struggles with the City of Calgary over such an idea tells me that it'd be a tough sell so it is probably unlikely for Calgary to get something akin to Edmonton's City Market for the time being. Do you guys have something similar to Make Something Edmonton? Maybe you could pitch and garner support through something like that, or another social platform. If the City of Calgary sees enough interest for such a thing, maybe they would change their minds.

There are plenty of good spots for an outdoor or an indoor market in Calgary, be they on the street, in a park, or in a purpose-built facility. The problem is more about finding the people who are willing to make it happen.

Thursday is a weekday . The 124 Grand Market in Westmount here is on from 4-8pm on Thursdays in the summer and is pretty popular for a more neighbourhood-orientated market.

Originally Posted by speedog

K, I was thinking tourist attraction in that a farmers' market would be on my check-list of things to see and do when in a new city - for most that would be the exception. Our family's first time in Montreal - no farmers' market was on our list. Same goes for Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle (and they've got a good one), San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Amsterdam (although we did stumble upon a neat farmers/flea market there), London (UK), Ottawa, Quebec City.

Now would I take a non-Calgarian to a farmers' market in Calgary as a touristy thing to do - dunno. Drumheller, Heritage Park, Glenbow would all come up first, maybe even the zoo and for a more unique experience, Red Rock Coulee down by Seven Persons.

That just shows that the old adage of different strokes being for different folks is still alive and well . Personally, I couldn't not see the Kensington Market if I were in Toronto, it's easily one of the coolest things about the city. The ByWard Market in Ottawa is pretty much unavoidable if you want to take in the best of that city. Vancouver's Granville Island Market is also very popular. Jean-Talon in Montreal is the go-to market for outsiders to check out. Here in Edmonton, the Old Scona, St. Albert, and City Markets are often touted as must-see things by urban-minded Edmontonians. The first and last are also in areas that tourists are likely to be in anyways (Old Strathcona and Downtown).

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by speedog

A farmers' market will never be a true tourist attraction - they're something that caters to a certain local population niche and if a tourist happens by, then that's just some extra gravy.

off-topic, too many people shop at what they believe to be a farmers' market when much of the produce being sold is not even produced by the people selling it. Then again, for many people just the idea of shopping for your food at a market as opposed to a grocery store gives them a sense, albeit often false, that they're doing something to help their local or regional economy.

There used to be a section at Crossroads on the south side directly beside Blackfoot Tr. (it might be there still, I haven't been in a few years) that had a significant number of Hutterites/Farmers excluding some of the resellers further north, would that not have been considered a Certified Farmers Market?

[Trans Canada]

A museum on Nose Hill would never get public support. Nose Hill is great and well-appreciated by the public as it is - a natural untouched preserve of land. We do not need to leverage it into a tourism scheme.

This museum would require a service entrance, so a road connection is necessary. Not to mention the fact that the majority of the public wouldn't want to walk any distance to a museum in the middle of Nose Hill, especially not in the winter. People like convenience and the ability to park their SUV as close to the front door as possible. Forcing people to walk any significant distance would convince some people not to go (people are lazy), not to mention impacting bus tours, handicap, and emergency access.


Unrelated, as someone above suggested, 4th and 8th would be a great location for some kind of attraction (museum etc), with the opportunity for waterfront integration. Does the city have any kind of long-term plan for that space?

And it really is surprising that Calgary doesn't have an energy-related museum.


Mewata Armoury would be a good place for a farmer's market but to get the best result it would have to be developed in conjunction with West Village. As it stands the area directly W of 11th would create a buffer WV and downtown; it will need some changes if WV is to be integrated in any way with downtown.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Trans Canada

A museum on Nose Hill would never get public support. Nose Hill is great and well-appreciated by the public as it is - a natural untouched preserve of land. We do not need to leverage it into a tourism scheme.

This museum would require a service entrance, so a road connection is necessary. Not to mention the fact that the majority of the public wouldn't want to walk any distance to a museum in the middle of Nose Hill, especially not in the winter. People like convenience and the ability to park their SUV as close to the front door as possible. Forcing people to walk any significant distance would convince some people not to go (people are lazy), not to mention impacting bus tours, handicap, and emergency access.


Unrelated, as someone above suggested, 4th and 8th would be a great location for some kind of attraction (museum etc), with the opportunity for waterfront integration. Does the city have any kind of long-term plan for that space?

And it really is surprising that Calgary doesn't have an energy-related museum.


Mewata Armoury would be a good place for a farmer's market but to get the best result it would have to be developed in conjunction with West Village. As it stands the area directly W of 11th would create a buffer WV and downtown; it will need some changes if WV is to be integrated in any way with downtown.

I thought it was mentioned that, that land is designated for a opera hall...dunno though

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

I thought it was mentioned that, that land is designated for a opera hall...dunno though

I think that was just a fanciful day dream mentioned by a councillor. No official plans that I am aware of.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

There used to be a section at Crossroads on the south side directly beside Blackfoot Tr. (it might be there still, I haven't been in a few years) that had a significant number of Hutterites/Farmers excluding some of the resellers further north, would that not have been considered a Certified Farmers Market?

Certified farmers' markets in Alberta have to adhere to a very strict set of rules - the two web sites I provided earlier in this thread will list only certified Alberta farmers' markets.

Basically 80% of a certified market's vendors have to either make/bake/grow their products in Alberta. Resellers are also frowned upon - the object is to provide the consumer the ability to interact directly with the people who actually make/bake/grow the items they're selling.

That said, there are only 5 Sunny Girl certified farmers' markets in Calgary - the two newest which are Fish Creek and Kingsland, the one most central to the core which is Hillhurst/Sunnyside, the most well known which is the Calgary Farmers' Market and the oldest and largest outdoor seasonal farmers' marker which is Grassroots Northland (in it's 23rd year). Grassroots followed by Fish Creek and Hillhurst/Sunnyside probably provide the best true farmers' market experience as Kingsland and Calgary Farmers are more a large food court with a smattering of non-food court vendors - the food court vendors all fall into the 80% which allows those two certified markets to bring in more non-Alberta based vendors.

[speedog]

On Nose Hill, let's leave it as it is. Most people have never been there and can't truly appreciate the gem that it is - yes, some of it is most definitely not natural but some of the reclaimed areas are quite wonderful, catching frogs and tadpoles in the pond on the top of Nose Hill is a great family activity if you can get your kids away from their screens. The rest of the hill is wonderful natural prairie which is difficult to find near Calgary in a publicly accessible space.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Riise

I wouldn't be so sure. When people visit me in London I always seem to take them to one of the bigger markets. As I'm living over here at the moment, when ever I visit London I have to go to Borough Market and Spitalfields at least once during my trip.

Markets are a good excursion for tourists because you can do a quick visit just to check out the hype or spend an entire afternoon depending on the size of the market.

While it is always cool being a local when traveling, I've never actually traveled to London to go to a market. I have, however, gone to the victoria & albert, natural history museum, ismaili centre, tower of london, london eye, british museum & library, the theatre district, the parliament buildings, spend time around the Thames, Trafalgar square, hyde park, harrods, etc.

Originally Posted by speedog

On Nose Hill, let's leave it as it is. Most people have never been there and can't truly appreciate the gem that it is - yes, some of it is most definitely not natural but some of the reclaimed areas are quite wonderful, catching frogs and tadpoles in the pond on the top of Nose Hill is a great family activity if you can get your kids away from their screens. The rest of the hill is wonderful natural prairie which is difficult to find near Calgary in a publicly accessible space.

I've gone through several times and see it twice a day actually. The wonderful things you talked about need to be leveraged more. Anyway, I'll get off the tourist attraction rant and let you guys continue talking about where you can buy apples in the concrete jungle.

[Trans Canada]

^ I get that we need tourist attractions - that's what this thread is about - but my reading of this thread is that you're the only person who supports development on Nose Hill.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Trans Canada

^ I get that we need tourist attractions - that's what this thread is about - but my reading of this thread is that you're the only person who supports development on Nose Hill.

Several people actually agreed that an institution on the edge of the hill, perhaps the SW corner, is an interesting idea. A natural history museum, that becomes for tourists, a gateway to a fantastic natural asset.

Anyway, back to the apples.

[speedog]

A better place for a natural history museum might be the Paskapoo slopes to the east of COP. . Lots of natural history in there and native history as well. Another possibility - build something where one of the old sandstone quarries was. Problem is that we've probably built over or reclaimed most of them.

Really it's too bad Calgary doesn't have something like the clay district in Medicine Hat - maybe something could be created out of the old brewery in Inglewood, the one with the huge underground cistern. Harvey Passage was a good start although the 2013 flood pretty much destroyed a fair chunk of that project.

Hard to say what one can build in Calgary to tout as a major tourist draw - when I've been to other cities it's been the historic things that I was drawn to and fantadtic natural wonders. Calgary doesn't have many historic structures if any note to draw from but we do have so.e wonderful natural areas

[speedog]

Well poop. Posted too soon from my cellphone but you get the gist of what I was trying to convey.

[googspecial]

I would like to see some more festivals. Something like Folklorama in Winnipeg would do pretty good here I think. Ethno-Cultural Pavilions at their respective community centres across the city to showcase cuisine and dance.

[speedog]

Okay, for those of you wanting for a market in the core/beltline - apparently someone will be opening a market back up in the Eau Claire Market Mall. It probably won't be a certified farmer's market meaning that the produce/products being sold there could come from anywhere - never the less, it will be interesting to see if a market can succeed in this space, would be nice to have there again what was there 20+ years ago. Certainly the number of residential units in the area has increased substantially in the years since there was a real market there and that just might be the key to any future success.