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  #5861  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2014, 8:36 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Originally Posted by rocksteady View Post
I've always heard this as a big reason as to why our downtown fails to develop as quickly as it could/should. I'm curious if you know if this problem occurs or has occured in other quickly developing cities like Denver, Austin, San Diego...or is this just a Phoenix phenomenon.
Phoenix's problems are the result of a series of bad decisions and poor leadership/planning. Each of the cities you listed faced similar struggles, but were able to build strong downtown cores by turning their dilapidated building stock into usable real estate (vs. Phoenix who tore most of its down), leveraging a diverse community of professionals, students, families, etc. (while Phoenix has only one university and its a satellite school secluded from most of the CBD), using geographic or climatic advantages to differentiate themselves (which Phoenix has, but has mostly done so to promote suburban resorts), electing officials and policymakers that knew the type of businesses they wanted in their city and built incentives and aggressive strategies around securing relevant firms (while Phoenix has continued to lose HQs to suburban competitors, and now is letting its edge in the Biomedical field shift toward Desert Ridge).

They also have a much larger pool of talent, higher paying jobs, and architects/designers who are able to gain more experience creating those projects. They also have surrounding neighborhoods that were able to undergo revitalization, whereas Phoenix needs to essentially start over in most areas. Lastly, these cities had high ranking personnel outside government who were influential in bringing great things to those cities. Seattle had Bill Gates, for example. There isn't anyone here in a position of power passionate and proud enough of Phoenix to influence change within the central city.

Had we not up zoned Central, I wonder what downtown would be like today. Of course, the fact that it happened shows that there was a desire to do business outside the main core, but assuming we were able to keep all high rise development in downtown proper, I wonder if we'd have a bustling downtown and thriving midtown urban suburb, or if Roosevelt would be torn apart by anti urban towers and over zoned lots?
     
     
  #5862  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 7:34 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Phoenix Seeks Preservation and New Development at Barrister

     
     
  #5863  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 9:33 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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I hate how Phoenix continues to assemble land and RFP it. It's bad enough when the private sector is able to create a superblock, but it stings more when the dirty work is done and tied with a bow for them to open and unleash projects that continue to have the same pitfalls over and over. What makes city's walkable, interesting, unique and authentic is the mix of architecture, uses, textures, colors, age, etc. that comes when individual lots are able to be transformed by one entity. Having that entity define an entire city block is outrageous and has provided some of the least urban and exciting projects in downtown: AZ Center, Colliers, CityScape x2, Chase... these are nothing compared to areas of Monroe, Central and Adams where 2-3-4 different buildings are packed into a block.

I also wonder if packaging the parcels like this will 'scare' off developers, or leave us with a partially completed 'Phase I' with the remaining lots never developed.

Now, luckily, the Barrister has been designed well enough to hopefully force developers away from doing anything inward facing. The potential for the entire block to be developed, and developed well, is also exciting. I hope we can get a look at any proposals submitted.

Ideally, I'd like to see the original building converted into lofts, with an additional modern residential addition to create a bit of an urban neighborhood with CityScape. Retail along Jefferson would focus on community and wellness: a health clonic, day spa, GNC, etc. I would curve the corner at 1st to complement USAC, which might give opportunity to create a small "Legends Square" with pavement markers of famous Arizonans, and a central monument - preferably interactive, that would explain the district, provide a map, and show specific venue info. A sports bar would make sense on the first two levels, with maybe a mire upscale nightclub on the next two with a rooftop patio. I'd have the garage entry off Jefferson, along with other entertainment-type amenities (dance studio, martial arts, sports memorabilia...). Along Central, I'd try to get a Bliss-type restaurant bar and another bar preferably given the future light rail and hotel across the street, and Bitter and Twisted. Offices would go above (noise won't be an issue).
     
     
  #5864  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 9:48 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
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From the vantage point in my office, it looks like some prep work is being done on the Broadstone Central site (just north of the Walgreens and Staples on Central and Osborn. Looking at the site plans relative to the work that is being done, I am guessing that they are preparing the site for the planned multi story parking garage first and then possibly moving into the development of the complex. Supposedly the parking garage will replace some of the office parking that is being taken for this complex.
     
     
  #5865  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 9:52 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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One thing I've been fantasizing about is a diagonal, walkable bisecting of a lot. Sort of taking advantage of the RFP being for such a huge block, to create a little walkable strip of land. It'd add, street-level storefront space. I think one of the problems with Cityscape is that raised-up isolation in the east half of it Those steps are not inviting. I think that such huge projects need to not JUST face out, but also inward.

But, alas, it would be better to portion off these lots and let individual projects develop a nice diversity of structures.
     
     
  #5866  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 10:00 PM
Freeway Freeway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
From the vantage point in my office, it looks like some prep work is being done on the Broadstone Central site (just north of the Walgreens and Staples on Central and Osborn. Looking at the site plans relative to the work that is being done, I am guessing that they are preparing the site for the planned multi story parking garage first and then possibly moving into the development of the complex. Supposedly the parking garage will replace some of the office parking that is being taken for this complex.
I wish I could be excited about this project, but it is way too suburban oriented. This belongs in Gilbert or Buckeye, not along the Central corridor in Phoenix
     
     
  #5867  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 10:24 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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I really hope it happens, but "still hoping" to open by the Super Bowl is different than we're going to do it. Get the lead out!

Developer hopes to have vacant Hotel Monroe ready for Super Bowl

A Minneapolis developer still hopes to have the long-vacant Hotel Monroe building redeveloped into a 165-room Hilton hotel before February’s Super Bowl.

If that’s going to happen, Minnesota-based CSM Corp. will have to get moving on the $40 million redevelopment. Super Bowl XLIX is scheduled for February 1, 2015 in Glendale.

The vacant downtown building has been home to countless pigeons and exposed to the desert elements for several years after getting caught up in the Mortgages Ltd. bankruptcy and resulting foreclosures.

Redevelopment plans from CSM will be before the Phoenix City Council in the coming weeks and the approvals, along with other city permits, could allow construction to start soon.

“The Hotel Monroe is a downtown landmark, and it’s our hope to have this beautiful property back to life in time for Super Bowl XLIX,” said

Kate Burda, vice president of sales and marketing for CSM.

The National Football League and Arizona Super Bowl Host Committee plan on holding a number of events in downtown Phoenix for the championship game. The media center will also be at the Phoenix Convention Center.

The 13-story Professional Building was built in 1932 and has historic designation.

It has sat vacant for several years after a foreclosure and failed plans for Hotel Monroe project on the site at Monroe Street and Central Avenue in downtown Phoenix. A number of efforts to purchase the site fell short before CSM bought the downtown property for $7.85 million late last year.

Mike Sunnucks writes about politics, law, airlines, sports business and the economy.
     
     
  #5868  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2014, 11:06 PM
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Classical in Phoenix Classical in Phoenix is offline
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Poconoboy61, I office just across the street at the Financial Center. Looking out my window, it appears a portion of the surface parking lot just North of Staples has been fenced off. I don't see any equipment though.
     
     
  #5869  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 2:15 AM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
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Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix View Post
Poconoboy61, I office just across the street at the Financial Center. Looking out my window, it appears a portion of the surface parking lot just North of Staples has been fenced off. I don't see any equipment though.
From my area, north of the site, I have seen crews and equipment there all day for the past two days or so. There also used to be a parking lot cover just north of Staples that has been taken down within the past couple of days. The site looks very active from my window.
     
     
  #5870  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 2:46 AM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
From my area, north of the site, I have seen crews and equipment there all day for the past two days or so. There also used to be a parking lot cover just north of Staples that has been taken down within the past couple of days. The site looks very active from my window.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is planned for that site? I can see it from my window as well.

In the same area... 3rd st. and Indian School, there is work being done on a lot next to the gas station (I think it's a Chevron or something). It looks like maybe some sort of industrial building or parking garage is being built.
     
     
  #5871  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 5:06 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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I think they're talking about this:

http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/internet/@inter/@dept/@dsd/documents/web_content/z-39-13n.pdf

The Broadstone Central. Looks to be another 4-story luxury condo community with 192 units from 630 to 1200 square feet. It's supposed to look similer to Broadstone Camelback.. which personally, I think ... meh.
     
     
  #5872  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 9:00 PM
soleri soleri is offline
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While I can understand why you don't like the design of the "Broadstone" (or its ridiculously pompous name), there is still something to be a little happy about. More people living in central Phoenix, for one thing. And one less gap in the Central Avenue yawning streetscape. It's not much infill but you gotta start somewhere.

Real urban projects need real urban settings - short blocks, greater diversity of uses, approrpriate urban scale, and so on. This does not describe Central Avenue north of Thomas Rd. Pretend urban projects here would probably just stick out like the Chateaux on Central - a displaced fantasy.
     
     
  #5873  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by soleri View Post
While I can understand why you don't like the design of the "Broadstone" (or its ridiculously pompous name), there is still something to be a little happy about. More people living in central Phoenix, for one thing. And one less gap in the Central Avenue yawning streetscape. It's not much infill but you gotta start somewhere.

Real urban projects need real urban settings - short blocks, greater diversity of uses, approrpriate urban scale, and so on. This does not describe Central Avenue north of Thomas Rd. Pretend urban projects here would probably just stick out like the Chateaux on Central - a displaced fantasy.
I agree. More density can't hurt. My office (in the Financial Center) faces north, and there are many vacant lots between here and Indian School.

Another plus is that an architectural firm will be moving into the South Rotunda at the Financial Center in June.
     
     
  #5874  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 9:32 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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oh, I agree wholeheartedly. The look just doesn't win my heart, is all.
     
     
  #5875  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 9:33 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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I have a hard time getting excited about this... what ever happened to the RFP for Central Station? Did they get no responses? Why is none of this public?

I feel like you can download all of this on the City of Tempe web site, and they require developers to provide much more detail. In Phoenix it goes into a whole and the public sees nothing.
     
     
  #5876  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 9:52 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Originally Posted by turpentyne View Post
One thing I've been fantasizing about is a diagonal, walkable bisecting of a lot. Sort of taking advantage of the RFP being for such a huge block, to create a little walkable strip of land. It'd add, street-level storefront space. I think one of the problems with Cityscape is that raised-up isolation in the east half of it Those steps are not inviting. I think that such huge projects need to not JUST face out, but also inward.

But, alas, it would be better to portion off these lots and let individual projects develop a nice diversity of structures.
Yes, the eastern CityScape tower almost accomplishes a well-designed product, but the change in grade is more of an obstacle than an enhancement: it requires work for the pedestrian who isn't able to see what they'd be walkiing to, and cuts off all views to the east, which could eventually be pretty active.

The issue with that, and your proposition, is that additional "streets" aren't needed, and yet always take precent over our traditional grid, leaving back f house and garage entries fronting major roads, as is the case on Washington, Jefferson and 1st Ave.

A diagonal pathway would do the same. If streets faced this path, back of house servicing would have to occur along at least one of Central, Madison, Jefferson, and 1st. I'm curious why you think these projects need to face inward at all? I guarantee that a Barrister project that faces outward, aligned to the existing street grid, using alleyways for service access and parking garage entrances, would have better street presence all around than any inward fading project we've seen. This reduces dead space and allows for uninterrupted street level activity. If it's open space you desire, this can still be accomplished depending on the site plan. All can have an architectural facade that allows for landscaping; corners can provide entry plazas or programming / gathering space, middle floors can be open air, roofs can be activated, recessed balconies, patios, etc. all provide that.

Otherwise, envision CityScape without the PSP requirement. On the east lot, the barber shop could squeeze next to the yogurt place, with most of Washington covered by a 2-story Golds wrapped around the lobby. A 2-story charming Charlie's would occupy the corner, followed by Jos A Bank, and alleyway for service and entry into the garage. Next, the base of the Palomar would start with Pearl Sushi, and apartment entry. On Jefferson, you could have The Breakfast Club, hotel lobby, Tilted Kilt wrapping the corner, with Blue Hound recessed on Level 7 along with entrance to the pool. The apartments would still be built atop this recessed portion. 1st Ave would remain the same.

This would pull all of the energy out of the inner staircase and second floor onto the streets. Washington and Jefferson, in particular, would benefit greatly.

Similarly, Having a Comedy Club, Copper Blues, and Lucky Strike across from the Luhrs arcade would been fantastic. However, that block should've been redesigned regardless once the upper level apartments were scratched. A city block of 1-story retail would be a huge wasted opportunity. Depending on what was allowed height wise, 2-3 story townhouses along 1st Ave would've been nice, with the CVS mixed in; then, the retail could've clustered along the portion west of the alley. Escalators to the 2nd floor along Central would definitely catch your eye.
     
     
  #5877  
Old Posted May 1, 2014, 10:29 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
I have a hard time getting excited about this... what ever happened to the RFP for Central Station? Did they get no responses? Why is none of this public?

I feel like you can download all of this on the City of Tempe web site, and they require developers to provide much more detail. In Phoenix it goes into a whole and the public sees nothing.
The city is constantly submitting RFPs, and I agree that it's extremely frustrating to not be able to see the proposed responses or read brief overviews prior to presentations.

The problem is that each firm's proposal will look different. Unless specified, companies can choose their own template, making it difficult to digitalize- unless a digital version was required.

All of this is public record, I just don't know if there's an online resource.

As for Broadstone, it's unfortunate that this was allowed along the light rail. It should be close enough that mixed use should be included and garage wrapped within the complex or built over retail. Yes, it's great to see so much residential momentum in midtown as I think that's the way for it to find its purpose. But, these initial projects should set the precent, yet none of them are all that urban: Broadstone is one use, with surface parking fronting Central and a large parking structure behind; Highland and Central: massive frontage along Central with no public amenities, one use, garage is one story taller than the project itself; Edison: nice plan here; wish 1 restaurant or gallery space was included, though.

Does anyone know what's up with Central/McDowell suburban project? Also, any rendering of artHAUS behind the ballet HQ? Lastly, someone HAS to have information on the proposal for the Artisan Haus II lot, and whether there are plans for Virginia/Central.
     
     
  #5878  
Old Posted May 2, 2014, 6:23 PM
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  #5879  
Old Posted May 3, 2014, 5:57 AM
Freeway Freeway is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056 View Post
The city is constantly submitting RFPs, and I agree that it's extremely frustrating to not be able to see the proposed responses or read brief overviews prior to presentations.

The problem is that each firm's proposal will look different. Unless specified, companies can choose their own template, making it difficult to digitalize- unless a digital version was required.

All of this is public record, I just don't know if there's an online resource.

As for Broadstone, it's unfortunate that this was allowed along the light rail. It should be close enough that mixed use should be included and garage wrapped within the complex or built over retail. Yes, it's great to see so much residential momentum in midtown as I think that's the way for it to find its purpose. But, these initial projects should set the precent, yet none of them are all that urban: Broadstone is one use, with surface parking fronting Central and a large parking structure behind; Highland and Central: massive frontage along Central with no public amenities, one use, garage is one story taller than the project itself; Edison: nice plan here; wish 1 restaurant or gallery space was included, though.

Does anyone know what's up with Central/McDowell suburban project? Also, any rendering of artHAUS behind the ballet HQ? Lastly, someone HAS to have information on the proposal for the Artisan Haus II lot, and whether there are plans for Virginia/Central.
Here we go with ground floor retail again... Where is the market for all of this retail. I don't think Broadstone demonstrates that there is a lot of residential demand in Midtown. How many of these proposals are actually seeing dirt moving? Two?
     
     
  #5880  
Old Posted May 5, 2014, 8:23 PM
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The City of Phoenix selected the proposal from Smith Partners, LLC for the Central Station redevelopment project.

http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/internet/@inter/@sols/@ced/documents/web_content/112728.pdf

Not sure how to see what their proposal actually was.
     
     
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