Claridge Icon [505 Preston St] | 143m | 45 fl | Completed

[waterloowarrior]

I'm guessing it is the tweaked design posted in Jan 2014 since the Tall Buildings design review comments were also posted around that time

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6413957&postcount=434

[Stevenson]

Oh I didn't realize that design wasn't fully approved.

Also, their site mentioned nothing about in suite features. This could be a reason nobody is buying yet. Their site is really lacking.

[S-Man]

They are flogging this thing in every type of ad imaginable. I still don't think it will come to fruition in the form currently proposed.

[Boxster]

I think the building is just too high.

Originally Posted by S-Man

They are flogging this thing in every type of ad imaginable. I still don't think it will come to fruition in the form currently proposed.

[gjhall]

I think they said they would do 3 years of sales before construction, they have 20% sold, including one of the penthouses on 44, so after a year, it's barely behind schedule, no?

[JackBauer24]

They're at 20% sales? Last time I checked it out they were just over 10%, and that was earlier this year - I'd be surprised if they almost doubled their sales in that short span of time.

As I've posted before, most new projects usually sell a decent chunk of available units (15-20%) during their opening weeks/months - even if the Icon sales are at 20%, after more than a year of sales, that number should be much higher.

I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing they need 60-70% pre-sales before they can start construction - if they're estimating a 3 year pre-sales period, than they need to average at least 20%/year. At their current rate, their pre-sales period is more likely to be 5+ years, then you have at least a 2.5 year construction period (most likely longer). So even using ambitious predictions, if this is ever built, it won't be done til after 2020. Does anyone know what their Tarion outside completion date is?

Originally Posted by gjhall

I think they said they would do 3 years of sales before construction, they have 20% sold, including one of the penthouses on 44, so after a year, it's barely behind schedule, no?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The 735 sq ft 2-bedroom is an interesting design, they usually don't make 2 bedrooms that small. I guess they could be marketed as "get a roommate to help pay the mortgage"

.. or to attract investors. Small 2-bedrooms like that are ideal for rentals to students--2 tenants in one unit = more rent money. The proximity to Carleton via the O-Train would make this very attractive for the Icon.

They're claiming fall 2017 now... if this project is cancelled it would a huge blow to the Claridge brand. If their Tarion outside date is too soon, do you think they'd suck up the risk and build it only 20% sold? Do they have enough money in reserve to even do that, ie. not need construction financing?

[canabiz]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

.. or to attract investors. Small 2-bedrooms like that are ideal for rentals to students--2 tenants in one unit = more rent money. The proximity to Carleton via the O-Train would make this very attractive for the Icon.

They're claiming fall 2017 now... if this project is cancelled it would a huge blow to the Claridge brand. If their Tarion outside date is too soon, do you think they'd suck up the risk and build it only 20% sold? Do they have enough money in reserve to even do that, ie. not need construction financing?

What do you think investors will realistically charge for this 2-bedroom unit to at least break even/have + cash flow?

Without looking at the purchase price & condo fee, I am thinking $1,400, given the location and proximity to O-Train station as you alluded to.

So that $700/student/month + utilities + cable/Internet/phone that they can split in half. Most likely no parking. Not sure if many (undergrad) students will go for this when they can pile in a 4, 5-bedroom home (or 3-bedroom with a basement) and pay around $500/month/room.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by canabiz

What do you think investors will realistically charge for this 2-bedroom unit to at least break even/have + cash flow?

Without looking at the purchase price & condo fee, I am thinking $1,400, given the location and proximity to O-Train station as you alluded to.

So that $700/student/month + utilities + cable/Internet/phone that they can split in half. Most likely no parking. Not sure if many (undergrad) students will go for this when they can pile in a 4, 5-bedroom home (or 3-bedroom with a basement) and pay around $500/month/room.

Not every student is struggling to make ends meet. The percentage of wealthy foreign students is actually quite high in respect to what we would expect. I met my share of spoiled kids during my uni years and the numbers of students paying in the vicinity of $20,000 for tuition per year is growing.

[canabiz]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Not every student is struggling to make ends meet. The percentage of wealthy foreign students is actually quite high in respect to what we would expect. I met my share of spoiled kids during my uni years and the numbers of students paying in the vicinity of $20,000 for tuition per year is growing.

That is true but on the same token, if I had the coins to spend, I wouldn't worry about bringing in a roomate to help with the cost.

Let's face it, 735 square feet is small for 2 adults. God forbid if you want to bring somebody home or have a party.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by canabiz

What do you think investors will realistically charge for this 2-bedroom unit to at least break even/have + cash flow?

Without looking at the purchase price & condo fee, I am thinking $1,400, given the location and proximity to O-Train station as you alluded to.

So that $700/student/month + utilities + cable/Internet/phone that they can split in half. Most likely no parking. Not sure if many (undergrad) students will go for this when they can pile in a 4, 5-bedroom home (or 3-bedroom with a basement) and pay around $500/month/room.

There are some students who want 2-bedroom arrangements. In Kingston's student housing market, there's a decent number of 1-bedroom and 2-bedroom student rentals on the market despite the massive number of 4-6 bedroom houses that are available.

Also bikegypsy is right in that are some students who demand quality and have the money to pay for it. BPE Development, a Kingston development company who owns a bunch of student rentals to help finance their construction projects, has a line of premium student rentals that seem to have no trouble renting each year, that go for $725/bedroom. If that can work in Kingston it can work in Ottawa.

I'm not an investor so I'm obviously not an expert, but I feel like there's room in the market for cheap 2-bedrooms.

Touch wood I'll be ready to buy my first home in 2-3 years, and I would actually like a place like that. I could bring in a friend from university to pay me rent for the second room, then use it as a spare room after he/she leaves.

[JackBauer24]

Well, since 1+dens rent for $1600-1650 and 2 bdrms for $2000-2100 at 330 Loretta/327 Breezehill, I'm going to assume the smaller 2 bedrooms rent at the Icon would be closer to $1800. Where does your $1400 figure come from?

Originally Posted by canabiz

What do you think investors will realistically charge for this 2-bedroom unit to at least break even/have + cash flow?

Without looking at the purchase price & condo fee, I am thinking $1,400, given the location and proximity to O-Train station as you alluded to.

So that $700/student/month + utilities + cable/Internet/phone that they can split in half. Most likely no parking. Not sure if many (undergrad) students will go for this when they can pile in a 4, 5-bedroom home (or 3-bedroom with a basement) and pay around $500/month/room.

[JackBauer24]

Savvy parents would be wise to buy a property near the school their child(ren) is/are attending instead of wasting money on paying the school a fee for renting a dorm room.

Pick up a 2 bedroom condo or 3 bedroom townhome, get your child to rent out a room or rooms, and you have tenants for 4 years. That will be enough time for the property's equity to increase if you wanted to sell, or you can continue holding on to the property since a rental close to a school is a solid investments.

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Not every student is struggling to make ends meet. The percentage of wealthy foreign students is actually quite high in respect to what we would expect. I met my share of spoiled kids during my uni years and the numbers of students paying in the vicinity of $20,000 for tuition per year is growing.

[Boxster]

Square footage is the primary cost driver.

Number of rooms is secondary.

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Well, since 1+dens rent for $1600-1650 and 2 bdrms for $2000-2100 at 330 Loretta/327 Breezehill, I'm going to assume the smaller 2 bedrooms rent at the Icon would be closer to $1800. Where does your $1400 figure come from?

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by Boxster

Square footage is the primary cost driver.

Number of rooms is secondary.

Exactly my point.

The 1+dens at 330 Loretta/327 Breezehill are further from the O-train Station, Preston and Dow's Lake than the Icon, and they're about 700-725 sq. ft.

The 2-bedrooms (even though small) are larger than 725 sq. ft. and, as mentioned previously, are in a better location.
If the 1+dens are renting at $1600+, shouldn't the 2-bdrms at the Icon rent for more?

[canabiz]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Exactly my point.

The 1+dens at 330 Loretta/327 Breezehill are further from the O-train Station, Preston and Dow's Lake than the Icon, and they're about 700-725 sq. ft.

The 2-bedrooms (even though small) are larger than 725 sq. ft. and, as mentioned previously, are in a better location.
If the 1+dens are renting at $1600+, shouldn't the 2-bdrms at the Icon rent for more?

My estimate is definitely on the conservative side. You mention properties on Breezehill and there just happens to be one for rent on MLS right now

http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyResults.as...&mp=0-0-0&mrt=0-0-4&trt=3&of=1&ps=10&o=A

It is a 2-bedroom, 2-bath with well over 1,100 sq.ft AND a parking spot and it is asking for $2,299/month. Note the MLS number of 900425, indicating this property has been looking for tenants number of months. The newer MLS listings currently start at 908xxx and up. Suffice to say, the $2,299 monthly rental price might be too aggressive.

I have the conservative estimate of $1,400, you have the aggressive estimate of $1,800 so why don't we meet in the middle for $1,600 for this 2-bedroom unit at the Icon?

Looking at the current price list and going with the cheapest Nelson unit of $311K and $238.97 condo fee(not always realistic but for the sake of discussion) and a rent price of $1,600/month, I would like to go back to my original questions

1. Is this going to break even and/or give + cash flow to the investors, assuming the standard 20% down for rental properties? My answer off the top of my head would be No but I will run some numbers when I got home later.

2. Are people willing to rent a 2-bedroom, 735 sq.ft here for $1,600/month? We have talked about wealthy/international students as a possibility, what are other target market? Downsizers, empty-nesters, divorcees, young professionals?

http://www.claridgeicon.com/uploads/icon-availability.pdf

[Stevenson]

http://www.claridgeicon.com/uploads/icon-availability.pdf

43 sold

[1overcosc]

So in almost 3 weeks they've only sold 1 unit.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by canabiz

My estimate is definitely on the conservative side. You mention properties on Breezehill and there just happens to be one for rent on MLS right now

http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyResults.as...&mp=0-0-0&mrt=0-0-4&trt=3&of=1&ps=10&o=A

It is a 2-bedroom, 2-bath with well over 1,100 sq.ft AND a parking spot and it is asking for $2,299/month. Note the MLS number of 900425, indicating this property has been looking for tenants number of months. The newer MLS listings currently start at 908xxx and up. Suffice to say, the $2,299 monthly rental price might be too aggressive.

I have the conservative estimate of $1,400, you have the aggressive estimate of $1,800 so why don't we meet in the middle for $1,600 for this 2-bedroom unit at the Icon?

Looking at the current price list and going with the cheapest Nelson unit of $311K and $238.97 condo fee(not always realistic but for the sake of discussion) and a rent price of $1,600/month, I would like to go back to my original questions

1. Is this going to break even and/or give + cash flow to the investors, assuming the standard 20% down for rental properties? My answer off the top of my head would be No but I will run some numbers when I got home later.

2. Are people willing to rent a 2-bedroom, 735 sq.ft here for $1,600/month? We have talked about wealthy/international students as a possibility, what are other target market? Downsizers, empty-nesters, divorcees, young professionals?

http://www.claridgeicon.com/uploads/icon-availability.pdf

I would think this would be a good location to rent to someone working at the hospital. Residents nurses etc. There is a higher end rental building on Aberden that rents 2 bedrooms in the $1600 range.

The days of buying new condos for cash-flow are basically over in Ottawa.

[Boxster]

It's the beginning of the end for the "ICON".

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

So in almost 3 weeks they've only sold 1 unit.