DALLAS FORT WORTH | Urban + Suburban P & C

[Clev]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

Rae we missing something..."the tallest CONCRETE structure..."? I don't know, but I think we are talking apples and oranges. A "concrete structure" is like the Reunion Tower, not Bank of America Tower. While I am excited about this as everyone is, let's not go ape-shit about it being a "supertall".

Yes, but the article says it will be " the tallest concrete structure WEST of the MISSISSIPPI." Like someone already mentioned, the current tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi is the Stratosphere Tower, which is a concrete observation tower in Las Vegas. So if the proposal in the article goes through, it would have to be taller than 1149 feet to achieve the claim of being "the tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi."

[N90]

Originally Posted by Clev

Yes, but the article says it will be " the tallest concrete structure WEST of the MISSISSIPPI." Like someone already mentioned, the current tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi is the Stratosphere Tower, which is a concrete observation tower in Las Vegas. So if the proposal in the article goes through, it would have to be taller than 1149 feet to achieve the claim of being "the tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi."

If it's taller than 1,149 feet then it's taller than anything outside NYC and Chicago in the US.

CITC 1,120 feet
Wilshire Grand 1,100 feet
Salesforce Tower 1,060 feet

[N90]

Originally Posted by Clev

Yes, but I believe CITC is an office tower, not residential. Residential towers are usually much smaller than office towers with the same number of floors.

I accounted for the residential tower only having up to 700 feet. A design top can still make a big difference even for the residential. Some spires or design tops are just made for making statements. See the spire atop 1WTC and CITC. They are quite long on their own.

As for which of the 3 projects the city of Dallas would go with, well shucks, out of the 3 which one would all of you go with if you wanted to maximize on your tax base with as many people as possible?

[Dale]

Beau Ceil is going to be 400' at 33 stories. And if like Azure, pretty much a flat top.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by N90

I accounted for the residential tower only having up to 700 feet. A design top can still make a big difference even for the residential. Some spires or design tops are just made for making statements. See the spire atop 1WTC and CITC. They are quite long on their own.

As for which of the 3 projects the city of Dallas would go with, well shucks, out of the 3 which one would all of you go with if you wanted to maximize on your tax base with as many people as possible?

I agree that it's possible for it to be that tall with a design crown or antenna, but I'm still a little skeptical because usually residential towers don't just add crowns or antennas to make them taller. Usually it's office buildings. Trump Tower in Chicago is a hotel/condo tower that has a tall antenna and it looks pretty sharp.

I would definitely go with proposal 2 that has the two residential towers. Proposal 3 hasn't been revealed yet, but proposal 2 is definitely going to be tough to beat.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

Rae we missing something..."the tallest CONCRETE structure..."? I don't know, but I think we are talking apples and oranges. A "concrete structure" is like the Reunion Tower, not Bank of America Tower. While I am excited about this as everyone is, let's not go ape-shit about it being a "supertall".

My assumption is that "concrete structure" refers to how it's constructed (as opposed to steel beam structure) and not that this building would resemble Stratosphere or Reunion towers. E.g., Salesforce Tower in SF would likely be a steel beam tower, and that this tower in Dallas wouldn't necessarily be as tall.

[Dale]

I'm predicting 1,003' on this one.

And a hue and cry from Houston.

[toxteth o'grady]

My doubts are stoked by the developer being a foreign company. The Chinese are notorious for floating pie-in-the-sky ideas and not acting on them (at least not in flyover US), and I'm not convinced the Turks have deep pockets either. So no supertalls anytime soon for either Dallas or Houston.

[Dale]

None for Houston even ? Skeptical of the well-publicized rumors down there ?

[toxteth o'grady]

None. Unless a developer shows up with the money and a lead tenant, I'm not expecting it.

Meanwhile, they're building 2000-footers in Wuhan, Changsha and other places. it's amazing what you can do when money is no impediment.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by eburress

My assumption is that "concrete structure" refers to how it's constructed (as opposed to steel beam structure) and not that this building would resemble Stratosphere or Reunion towers. E.g., Salesforce Tower in SF would likely be a steel beam tower, and that this tower in Dallas wouldn't necessarily be as tall.

Ok, so you're saying that the developer meant to say that this building would be the tallest "concrete building" west of the Mississippi river. That would make more sense. I know that Trump Tower in Chicago is the tallest concrete building in the U.S, but I'm not sure what the tallest concrete building west of the Mississippi is. So I guess it doesn't have to be a supertall if you go by that definition. But if they mean the tallest "concrete structure" west of the Mississippi, then it would have to be taller than the Stratosphere Tower in Las Vegas

[Owlhorn]

Originally Posted by Dale

I see the pooh-poohing has already started, here and on dallasmetropolis.

Wouldn't call it pooh-poohing. Just a good sense of development in Dallas. If they were going to build, they would give a construction date, and it would be in the calendar year. Dallas developers try to squeeze the heck out of condo pricing as well, and will try to sell Blue Ciel or Museum Tower type prices. Many a building has failed with this strategy and has had to drastically lower prices or auction off units for much less per sq ft. Also, projects like these are thrown out there to gauge interest from investors as well. I could actually see this happening in the Harwood District or Turtle Creek, but not downtown unless they are going after the middle class market(they would be the first and only to do this in Dallas) This would probably have a better chance being built in Preston Center.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Owlhorn

Wouldn't call it pooh-poohing. Just a good sense of development in Dallas. If they were going to build, they would give a construction date, and it would be in the calendar year. Dallas developers try to squeeze the heck out of condo pricing as well, and will try to sell Blue Ciel or Museum Tower type prices. Many a building has failed with this strategy and has had to drastically lower prices or auction off units for much less per sq ft. Also, projects like these are thrown out there to gauge interest from investors as well. I could actually see this happening in the Harwood District or Turtle Creek, but not downtown unless they are going after the middle class market(they would be the first and only to do this in Dallas) This would probably have a better chance being built in Preston Center.

It's a brand new proposal. Let the guy come up for air first.

[dollaztx]

There certainly have been lots of leads lately that give Dallas a high chance of landing a 50+ building. You got both this project and Perot's that seem to point to something big. There are also a lot of towers changing hands and being converted to residential. The vast amount of vacant buildings that downtown once had are now quickly running out. Due to the density that is being created there is a higher demand for parking lots so in turn surface lots are either turning into garages or new developments include underground parking. Nearby Uptown was the area that used to land most new developments and it's almost maxed out as well.

For some reason also FAA seems to have relaxed it's height restrictions or they simply might not affect the areas where these towers are being proposed.

[Dallaz]

Pictures of the proposed residential towers

http://media.bizj.us/view/img/2570311/pacific-plaza4-copy*600.jpg
http://media.bizj.us/view/img/2570331/pacific-plaza5-copy*600.jpg

[N90]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Pictures of the proposed residential towers

http://media.bizj.us/view/img/2570311/pacific-plaza4-copy*600.jpg
http://media.bizj.us/view/img/2570331/pacific-plaza5-copy*600.jpg

When I read it, I knew it would have a design top because no way a 70 floor residential (meaning 700 feet minimum) would be "the tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi". That design top will probably add 100-200 feet. Not a supertall it seems like but an 800-900 footer along with another 60 story tower is pretty great.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by N90

When I read it, I knew it would have a design top because no way a 70 floor residential (meaning 700 feet minimum) would be "the tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi". That design top will probably add 100-200 feet. Not a supertall it seems like but an 800-900 footer along with another 60 story tower is pretty great.

For this to be a supertall, the floor height would need to be 15 ft. I don't see that happening at all....seems like it will have a crown/spire.

[Owlhorn]

Originally Posted by Dale

It's a brand new proposal. Let the guy come up for air first.

nope, same type of place-holder crap that has kept DT Dallas full of parking lots for years. I get why he(and Perot for that matter) make these types of "proposals" public, but this isn't even that. Its just someone bidding for a construction site to show what they might do.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Owlhorn

nope, same type of place-holder crap that has kept DT Dallas full of parking lots for years. I get why he(and Perot for that matter) make these types of "proposals" public, but this isn't even that. Its just someone bidding for a construction site to show what they might do.

You seem fairly determined about this. Don't worry, I won't try to take your fun away.

[dch526]

2 towers
16 story office building
20 story residential (300 units)

Start Construction: 1Q 2015
Project Completion : 4Q 2016

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/0...l-have-office-and-apartment-towers.html/