Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Radster]

I am doing YOW-FRA in late August. When I booked a month ago, system said 767. I just checked my reservation now, and its still 767.

[citydwlr]

Originally Posted by Harley613

i would LOVE to see a 787 in Ottawa. I'm an Airbus guy but the 787 is oh so pretty!

In the 2008/2009 airport master plan, they projected at least one terminal would accept a Code-E plane (a 787-8, for example) by 2017 (provided their expansion plans proceed on schedule):
http://ottawa-airport.ca/sites/default/f...ter_plan_executive_summary_2009-e.pdf#22

By 2030, we should have 4 terminals:
http://ottawa-airport.ca/sites/default/f...ter_plan_executive_summary_2009-e.pdf#23

[trhgr]

Originally Posted by Harley613

i would LOVE to see a 787 in Ottawa. I'm an Airbus guy but the 787 is oh so pretty!

I would love to see any plane going directly to Paris or other major cities in continental europe (I'm sick of layovers in FRA).

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

The a333 upgrade is great, and is very welcome by us plane spotters!

Does anyone have any info on whether Air Canada will use their 788s on rapidair test flights?

It's more likely to touch-and-go in Ottawa as part of internal crew training flights than it is to operate scheduled service on Rapidair. That's what happened when AC received its 77L aircraft some years ago.

[BenTheGreat97]

Originally Posted by Radster

I am doing YOW-FRA in late August. When I booked a month ago, system said 767. I just checked my reservation now, and its still 767.

Yes, this upgrade appears to be only for the month of May.

In the 2008/2009 airport master plan, they projected at least one terminal would accept a Code-E plane (a 787-8, for example) by 2017 (provided their expansion plans proceed on schedule):
http://ottawa-airport.ca/sites/defau..._2009-e.pdf#22

The airport has already handled a 777 parked at a gate, I don't know if the gates beside it were vacant or not though.

By 2030, we should have 4 terminals:
http://ottawa-airport.ca/sites/defau..._2009-e.pdf#23

4 terminals!?! I honestly think that's crazy and will never happen before 2050, if ever.

I would love to see any plane going directly to Paris or other major cities in continental Europe (I'm sick of layovers in FRA).

Yes, I've always thought Air Canada could make a Paris flight work. We would probably already have one to CDG if Air Canada had ordered 757s, as that would probably be well-sized for a route like that.

And yes, touch-and-go's would be almost a certainty, but I would also like to have some of the flights to YUL/YYZ upgraded. Imagine you're going to YUL on an old Dash 8-100, and all of a sudden you're told they're swapping your plane for a new 788 and putting everyone in Executive First as a complimentary upgrade . Sure it's only a 20-minute flight, but that would be a great gesture to attract more customers as well.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

Yes, this upgrade appears to be only for the month of May.

Correct!
I was going to post about this a couple of months ago when I found out but didn't think you all on here would care about it! For the entire month of May, and only May, AC838/839 YOW-FRA will be on the Airbus A-333. Flight is only 5x weekly though. Starting in June flight will revert back to B-767 and become Daily.

Other news if anyone is interested: Air Canada will operate their YOW-FLL (Fort Lauderdale) service 2x weekly starting in July. Usually this flight only appears in December-April as increasing from 2/3x weekly to daily during peak Jan-March and back to 2/3x until ending in late April. That seems like the game plan still but flight will reappear 2x weekly in July. Operating Sunday & Monday.
Also: The B-767 will be back on one of the 3 daily YOW-YVR (Vancouver) flights to go along with the A-320/321 that we had last summer and this one as well.

Furthermore: To touch on the Paris idea. It'll never happen on Air Canada, no matter what size of plane they have. There's no feed for them on the other side to route connecting passengers through and the YOW-CDG O&D market can't support that route on it's own. I'm sure Air France would consider operating it but they would eat at their YUL-CDG passengers as AF & KLM operate a bus service from Ottawa-YUL for their flights. Also, a lot of people drive to Montreal because they think it's cheaper than using YOW, or don't realize that YOW offers great service and connections to Europe and Asia through LHR & FRA!

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Furthermore: To touch on the Paris idea. It'll never happen on Air Canada, no matter what size of plane they have. There's no feed for them on the other side to route connecting passengers through and the YOW-CDG O&D market can't support that route on it's own. I'm sure Air France would consider operating it but they would eat at their YUL-CDG passengers as AF & KLM operate a bus service from Ottawa-YUL for their flights. Also, a lot of people drive to Montreal because they think it's cheaper than using YOW, or don't realize that YOW offers great service and connections to Europe and Asia through LHR & FRA!

The numbers are definitively there, at least when it comes to the May to September period; what is needed is to convince a large part of the market to break the YUL habit in order for this flight to work.... It's a matter of lining up the planets properly. I read an internal Air France report a few years ago stating that YOW was on their desired list.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

The numbers are definitively there, at least when it comes to the May to September period; what is needed is to convince a large part of the market to break the YUL habit in order for this flight to work.... It's a matter of lining up the planets properly. I read an internal Air France report a few years ago stating that YOW was on their desired list.

I have no doubts it is on their desired list. But what company would want to staff gate & ticket agents, contract ground handlers, pay for gate space, landing fees, ticket desk rental, etc for only a 4 month summer period of flights?
I would love to know the actual O&D numbers for YOW-CDG (I'll see if I can dig them up) and the numbers for how many people from YOW and area use YUL instead. I guarantee YOW looses 1 million+ to YUL, YYZ, and SYR yearly. Look at Edmonton: similar size population to us but has 2 million more passengers a year. I don't think as many people there drive to Calgary. If Ottawa was situated on the East Coast with exactly the same metrics we have now (population, area, etc) we'd have a huge airport hub for flights across the Atlantic and much much more domestic/USA flights. I hate being sandwiched between Toronto & Montreal.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

4 terminals!?! I honestly think that's crazy and will never happen before 2050, if ever.

I think the poster meant to type 4 GATES for wide-bodied jets. At least that's what shows on the plan.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

The numbers are definitively there, at least when it comes to the May to September period; what is needed is to convince a large part of the market to break the YUL habit in order for this flight to work.... It's a matter of lining up the planets properly. I read an internal Air France report a few years ago stating that YOW was on their desired list.

Didn't Air Transat offer YOW-CDG (ORY??) several years ago. It was seasonal only. More telling, it didn't return the next season.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by citydwlr

In the 2008/2009 airport master plan, they projected at least one terminal would accept a Code-E plane (a 787-8, for example) by 2017 (provided their expansion plans proceed on schedule):
http://ottawa-airport.ca/sites/default/f...ter_plan_executive_summary_2009-e.pdf#22

By 2030, we should have 4 terminals:
http://ottawa-airport.ca/sites/default/f...ter_plan_executive_summary_2009-e.pdf#23

The airport can already accommodate code E aircraft and does so periodically (diversions, military charters, etc.). Heck, even the old airport was able to accommodate code E.

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

Didn't Air Transat offer YOW-CDG (ORY??) several years ago. It was seasonal only. More telling, it didn't return the next season.

It was YOW-CDG. Actually, technically it was YYZ-YOW-CDG since the Canada-France/Europe bilateral at the time only allowed scheduled services to YUL/YYZ. Open skies in 2009 has changed all of that. The fact that it didn't return doesn't say all that much to be honest; TS has no feed opportunities in CDG, or anywhere else for that matter, since it is a charter operation.

YOW-CDG may some day be operated by AF, since it can capitalize on its vast network to feed pax to Europe, Africa, mid-East, and Asia.

[BenTheGreat97]

First Air and Canadian North to merge into one carrier.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6052618

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canadian-north-first-air-plan-merger-of-equals-1.2607324

http://newnorthernairline.com/#top

Will be interesting to see how this affects routes out of Ottawa.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

First Air and Canadian North to merge into one carrier.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6052618

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canadian-north-first-air-plan-merger-of-equals-1.2607324

http://newnorthernairline.com/#top

Will be interesting to see how this affects routes out of Ottawa.

On the last point (RE: how this effects routes out of Ottawa), I've wondered why First Air 860 and Canadian North 436 (or 439 on Wednesdays) are scheduled to depart Ottawa for Iqaluit within each other?

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by JCL

On the last point (RE: how this effects routes out of Ottawa), I've wondered why First Air 860 and Canadian North 436 (or 439 on Wednesdays) are scheduled to depart Ottawa for Iqaluit within each other?

This is fairly common worldwide, usually has to do with desired timing for customers.

For instance many of the flights from Toronto to China leave in the early afternoon.

I was recently in Tokyo flying to Japan and there were flights on United and ANA just 20 minutes apart to Bangkok (a 7 hour flight).

[kevinbottawa]

Airport traffic dips 1.4% in Q1

OBJ Staff
Published on April 29, 2014

A decline in the number of passengers flying to and from the United States through the Ottawa International Airport pushed first-quarter traffic down to a three-year low, according to recently released figures.

Some 1,169,679 passengers flew in and out of the city’s airport between January and March of 2014. That’s down 1.37 per cent from the same period last year and down 6.36 per cent from 2012, which was a record-setting year for passenger traffic.

Domestic travel – which accounts for nearly two-thirds of the airport’s passenger volume – was largely flat year-over-year in the first quarter, while international travel to and from destinations other than the U.S. was up 2.46 per cent.

However, that failed to offset an 8.36 per cent decline in transborder (Canada-U.S.) travel.

Airport officials have previously said that passenger traffic is a barometer of the overall health of the local economy. Earlier this year, the Conference Board of Canada found that Ottawa-Gatineau had the lowest level of GDP growth in the country. The economy expanded by just 0.3 per cent last year, and the think tank forecast the local economy would grow 1.4 per cent in 2014.

Last year, 4.58 million used the Ottawa airport, down 2.29 per cent from 2012.

http://www.obj.ca/Local/Tourism/2014-04-29/article-3705929/Airport-traffic-dips-1.4%25-in-Q1/1

[JCL]

Originally Posted by VaskoYOW

It seems that air canada has upgraded their equipment on the YOW-FRA route for the month of May, the route will be service by the A333 instead of the usual B767-300! Wonder, if the summer months will change too??? The B767 is always full in the summer, I've taken it a few times now and it's always been full both ways! It will be nice, if we can get this upgrade for the summer months!

Just played around with Flightaware, and Air Canada 452 will be coming into Ottawa with the Airbus A330-300 before going to Frankfurt as Air Canada 838.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA452/history/20140501/1710Z/CYYZ/CYOW

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA838/history/20140501/2100Z/CYOW/EDDF

[wingman]

Originally Posted by JCL

Just played around with Flightaware, and Air Canada 452 will be coming into Ottawa with the Airbus A330-300 before going to Frankfurt as Air Canada 838.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA452/history/20140501/1710Z/CYYZ/CYOW

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA838/history/20140501/2100Z/CYOW/EDDF

Shows this on the AC site too. Interesting to see the 2-4-2 layout on a flight from YYZ to YOW. Lots of seats available for anyone wanting to try it out

[JCL]

Originally Posted by wingman

Shows this on the AC site too. Interesting to see the 2-4-2 layout on a flight from YYZ to YOW. Lots of seats available for anyone wanting to try it out

I've never flown on a Toronto (YYZ)-Ottawa flight before. But I take it that those flights are generally not full?

I think the aircraft (and crew) are based in Toronto. So they are assigning the aircraft on a Toronto to Ottawa flight in lieu of deadheading, regardless of what the ridership actually is. They do that every so often with a Boeing 767 when when those aircraft assigned on London/Frankfurt flights need to go to/from Toronto.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by JCL

I've never flown on a Toronto (YYZ)-Ottawa flight before. But I take it that those flights are generally not full?

I think the aircraft (and crew) are based in Toronto. So they are assigning the aircraft on a Toronto to Ottawa flight in lieu of deadheading, regardless of what the ridership actually is. They do that every so often with a Boeing 767 when when those aircraft assigned on London/Frankfurt flights need to go to/from Toronto.

I Flew from Ottawa to Toronto once, and it was the weirdest flight I've ever been on. I booked my seat online, they called rows and I boarded towards the end (they were about to call my name actually, I had run to the washroom). The plane was next to empty, and since I was one of the last to board I thought that was it, but then it suddenly filled up (A320 series aircraft), as if there were 100 people on standby. Must be just how Rapidair works.

[kevinbottawa]

I flew to Toronto once for work. It was full both ways.