Calgary Public Transit II

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Just a couple minor points:

7 Ave will not be able to manage the same headways with four car trains as with four car trains.

An 8 Ave Subway with modern signalling, when taken in isolation, would be able to beat 120 second headways; 90 should be doable.

I would also add that post construction of the 8 Ave Subway, capacity boosts to the NW-S line will return to affordability very quickly. Heritage Drive and 25 Avenue would likely pose immediate issues and need to be addressed concurrently with Subway construction, unless Roads builds interchanges first, but the proposed interchanges are not overly complex and wouldn't break the bank. After that though we'll have plenty of spare capacity and additional capacity boosts won't cost much. Five car trains would mean rebuilding SAIT and 39 Ave, minor track realignments, and platform extensions. It would be comparable to the current move from three to four cars.

The NW-S line is, outside of downtown, just ridiculously close to being grade separated. It wouldn't even be that expensive to grade separate it. The W-NE line is different. Large portions of it, pretty much all of 36 St, would need to be completely rebuilt.

Yeah, I really hope that the city really does some hard thinking and decides to separate the most prominent crossings of the 201 line when they build the Subway, with eventual total separation being the goal. I think the biggest challenge, at least in the northwest, would be the two crossings between Brentwood, Lions Park, and SAIT stations.

Is there still no timeline at all for subway construction?

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Yeah, I really hope that the city really does some hard thinking and decides to separate the most prominent crossings of the 201 line when they build the Subway, with eventual total separation being the goal. I think the biggest challenge, at least in the northwest, would be the two crossings between Brentwood, Lions Park, and SAIT stations.

Is there still no timeline at all for subway construction?

The NW would be the absolute last part to be touched, if it ever even would be (which I strongly doubt). 14 Ave N, the ramps between 14 Ave N and 14 St N, 4 Ave N, and 2 Ave N just aren't major routes. They would all be behind the really important crossings (25 Ave S and Heritage Drive) and even the next tier (162 Ave S and probably 58 Ave S).

[Chadillaccc]

Yeah, but what I meant was, that would be the hardest area to separate on the 201. The ones you mentioned would be quite easy in comparison.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

The NW-S line is, outside of downtown, just ridiculously close to being grade separated. It wouldn't even be that expensive to grade separate it. The W-NE line is different. Large portions of it, pretty much all of 36 St, would need to be completely rebuilt.

Sunnyside would be difficult. Even ignoring how you'd construct it, building under or overpasses on 2nd and/or 4th streets wouldn't improve the neighbourhood at all.

Not that it actually matters in reality though - the major roads in the south are the bigger issue by far.

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Has CT done any studies or had any thoughts about where the WLRT might go west of 93rd st?

In the early WLRT planning documents I recall the line being shown heading north along the Future Stony Trail right of way.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Sunnyside would be difficult. Even ignoring how you'd construct it, building under or overpasses on 2nd and/or 4th streets wouldn't improve the neighbourhood at all.

Not that it actually matters in reality though - the major roads in the south are the bigger issue by far.

Come to think of it, with 90 second head ways, a lot of people would have trouble crossing the tracks as pedestrians, even at stations.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Just a couple minor points:

7 Ave will not be able to manage the same headways with four car trains as with four car trains.

An 8 Ave Subway with modern signalling, when taken in isolation, would be able to beat 120 second headways; 90 should be doable.

I would also add that post construction of the 8 Ave Subway, capacity boosts to the NW-S line will return to affordability very quickly. Heritage Drive and 25 Avenue would likely pose immediate issues and need to be addressed concurrently with Subway construction, unless Roads builds interchanges first, but the proposed interchanges are not overly complex and wouldn't break the bank. After that though we'll have plenty of spare capacity and additional capacity boosts won't cost much. Five car trains would mean rebuilding SAIT and 39 Ave, minor track realignments, and platform extensions. It would be comparable to the current move from three to four cars.

The NW-S line is, outside of downtown, just ridiculously close to being grade separated. It wouldn't even be that expensive to grade separate it. The W-NE line is different. Large portions of it, pretty much all of 36 St, would need to be completely rebuilt.

Extensions to 5 cars is a much more involved process than the extensions to 4 cars is. All the pilings were in place for the 4 car, there are no further pilings to build on for the 5th car.

Also 5 cars would mean complete grade separation downtown (7th & 8th), or a switch to low floor vehicles.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Extensions to 5 cars is a much more involved process than the extensions to 4 cars is. All the pilings were in place for the 4 car, there are no further pilings to build on for the 5th car.

Also 5 cars would mean complete grade separation downtown (7th & 8th), or a switch to low floor vehicles.

Yeah, my entire point was that post completion of the 8 Ave Subway, further boosts to capacity return to affordability. Five car trains on the NW-S line being a relatively cheap upgrade given the existence of a subway downtown with 125m platforms. I was only referring to the NW-S line being upgraded to five car trains.

Now I've by no means looked into it too closely but, given that substantial costs for the transition to four cars involved electrical work to boost power and the complete rebuild of 7 Avenue (not required at all for a NW-S line running under 8 Ave), I stand by my assertion that going to five cars would be comparable.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Yeah, my entire point was that post completion of the 8 Ave Subway, further boosts to capacity return to affordability. Five car trains on the NW-S line being a relatively cheap upgrade given the existence of a subway downtown with 125m platforms. I was only referring to the NW-S line being upgraded to five car trains.

Now I've by no means looked into it too closely but, given that substantial costs for the transition to four cars involved electrical work to boost power and the complete rebuild of 7 Avenue (not required at all for a NW-S line running under 8 Ave), I stand by my assertion that going to five cars would be comparable.

Ah yes for the NW-S line only your correct, I was thinking that you were referring to a system wide upgrade to 5 cars.

I think you are correct that it would be comparable cost wise, the complexity of placing pilings beside active tracks would add complexity to the work itself but likely little overall cost, particularly if the traction power upgrades were sufficient to power 5 cars or were designed to be upgradable.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Come to think of it, with 90 second head ways, a lot of people would have trouble crossing the tracks as pedestrians, even at stations.

Yeah I almost mentioned that aspect - we've talked about grade separation as purely separating roadways. But at grade (uncontrolled) pedestrian crossings are a key part of the design of many stations, something I'm not too comfortable with - I know I have ignored the lights once or twice to catch a train and at least a car passenger has some chance of surviving a collision.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

When are 4 car trains being introduced now? It looks pretty far behind schedule.

I thought by the end of 2014 was the target.

As you said, everything that CT touches gets delayed

[mersar]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I thought by the end of 2014 was the target.

As you said, everything that CT touches gets delayed

2015/2016. Depends on delivery of the new SD200's

[frinkprof]

Oldest CTrains dragging down Calgary Transit’s overall reliability

By Bryan Weismiller Metro

Calgary Transit is attempting to breathe life into its oldest — and most unreliable — light-rail cars as they cloud overall gains in dependability.

When it comes to reliability data over the past five years, the old-school CTrains (known in transit circles as Siemens U2s) are worsening while their successors are gradually improving.

CTrains racked up 61,000 kilometres between mechanical failures on average in 2013. The U2s, however, broke down more than two-and-a-half times as often than the newer trains per odometer click in what was a low-point over the past five years.

[...]


A city hall committee will be briefed next month on efforts to keep CTrains on the rails for longer stretches.

[...]

Fast facts:

The Siemens U2 cars recorded 165 mechanical failures in 2013 compared to 146 for the newer Siemens SD fleet that are used thrice as often.

In its current long-term plan, Calgary Transit planners hope to retire the U2s by 2020 at the latest. That replacement process starts six to nine months after the new-generation trains roll in late next year.

Link to full article

[Chadillaccc]

Worst Ctrain backup I have ever experienced. Took me an hour to get from 1st Street Station to Dalhousie Station, when it usually takes me one minute. My train was lucky enough to be the first train trying to leave downtown when an accident happened directly in front of us It's crazy that one dickhead on his phone causing a fender bender can fuck with the commute pattern of so many thousands of people. The crazy part is that even when we get the Subway, the plan is still to have it going at grade over the intersections of 6th, 5th, and 4th Avenues. The accident today happened at 6th.

[floobie]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Worst Ctrain backup I have ever experienced. Took me an hour to get from 1st Street Station to Dalhousie Station, when it usually takes me one minute. My train was lucky enough to be the first train trying to leave downtown when an accident happened directly in front of us It's crazy that one dickhead on his phone causing a fender bender can fuck with the commute pattern of so many thousands of people. The crazy part is that even when we get the Subway, the plan is still to have it going at grade over the intersections of 6th, 5th, and 4th Avenues. The accident today happened at 6th.

Seriously?! That's fairly disappointing.

I think I caught the tail-end of this backup. It was a more intimate commute than usual, but I still managed to get from 3rd street station to Dalhousie in 20-25 minutes.

[Fuzz]

I was wondering why traffic was so horrendous as I sailed by in the congestion-free cycle-track on my way out of town!

Really glad I ignored the snow-warnings in the forecast and rode in today.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Worst Ctrain backup I have ever experienced. Took me an hour to get from 1st Street Station to Dalhousie Station, when it usually takes me one minute. My train was lucky enough to be the first train trying to leave downtown when an accident happened directly in front of us It's crazy that one dickhead on his phone causing a fender bender can fuck with the commute pattern of so many thousands of people. The crazy part is that even when we get the Subway, the plan is still to have it going at grade over the intersections of 6th, 5th, and 4th Avenues. The accident today happened at 6th.

Originally Posted by floobie

Seriously?! That's fairly disappointing.

I think I caught the tail-end of this backup. It was a more intimate commute than usual, but I still managed to get from 3rd street station to Dalhousie in 20-25 minutes.

I don't think it's been decided how the line will interact with those streets. All I know, is that there's no particularly good way to do it. Also, however they do it, it's going to be a painful extended period of time where there will be shuttles between downtown and Sunnyside station.

[Trans Canada]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The crazy part is that even when we get the Subway, the plan is still to have it going at grade over the intersections of 6th, 5th, and 4th Avenues.

I'd expect those blocks to be too short for 5-car trains if that is the eventual plan

[MalcolmTucker]

There is room to transition from portal to bridge at maximum grade if you realign the roads. Math should be in the old thread. It is tight but would work.

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by Trans Canada

I'd expect those blocks to be too short for 5-car trains if that is the eventual plan

Some are too short for 4 car trains....