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  #3841  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 12:34 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ziobrop View Post
Today; from http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/
Parking Garage Ramps:
It is great to see that the ground work is almost complete plus a great deal of the Exhibition Hall.

The hearing on April 29th (next Tuesday) will be interesting. It may be a bit of a circus with some people thinking that there is still a chance to halt construction of the Nova Centre.
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  #3842  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 12:45 AM
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I'm generally for the convention Center BUT
The proposed Center is now much smaller then originally proposed and requested by the rfp issued by the province.

This is a big issue. If we are going to build something new it should be much better then what we have now. My guess is the redesign caused space to get used up with anicilleray functions or useless programming. As I understand it convention space is best windowless - but with the ball room now above ground the windows all around it that needs to become public space that can no longer function as part of the ball room. I also guess that space in the convention area is also smaller due to ramp reconfiguration.

I agree the parking enter acne should not have been on argyle, but I'm not convinced moving the ballroom up actually benifits users of the building.

Short answer is the new spaces are too small and less then requested. Make them bigger, and move the surrounding back of house functions to make room
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  #3843  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 1:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziobrop View Post
I'm generally for the convention Center BUT
The proposed Center is now much smaller then originally proposed and requested by the rfp issued by the province.

This is a big issue. If we are going to build something new it should be much better then what we have now. My guess is the redesign caused space to get used up with anicilleray functions or useless programming. As I understand it convention space is best windowless - but with the ball room now above ground the windows all around it that needs to become public space that can no longer function as part of the ball room. I also guess that space in the convention area is also smaller due to ramp reconfiguration.

I agree the parking enter acne should not have been on argyle, but I'm not convinced moving the ballroom up actually benifits users of the building.

Short answer is the new spaces are too small and less then requested. Make them bigger, and move the surrounding back of house functions to make room
This is not actually a fact. It is something Mr. Epstein and Surette are saying, but right now if the space comes back at less than 120,000 sf that would violate the contract. Halifax's funding is contingent on meeting that mark.
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  #3844  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 1:04 AM
hokus83 hokus83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziobrop View Post
I'm generally for the convention Center BUT
The proposed Center is now much smaller then originally proposed and requested by the rfp issued by the province.

This is a big issue. If we are going to build something new it should be much better then what we have now. My guess is the redesign caused space to get used up with anicilleray functions or useless programming. As I understand it convention space is best windowless - but with the ball room now above ground the windows all around it that needs to become public space that can no longer function as part of the ball room. I also guess that space in the convention area is also smaller due to ramp reconfiguration.

I agree the parking enter acne should not have been on argyle, but I'm not convinced moving the ballroom up actually benifits users of the building.

Short answer is the new spaces are too small and less then requested. Make them bigger, and move the surrounding back of house functions to make room
Yeah I felt a big confused with the reduction in size and didnt understand the reasoning for it. Is it possible to be changed back to the way it was or made size its supposed to be or is this smaller proposal the way it is going to be now?
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  #3845  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 1:38 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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  #3846  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 2:35 AM
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Last edited by teddifax; Apr 23, 2014 at 2:37 AM. Reason: out of sync with order flow
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  #3847  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 5:09 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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As for the Nova Centre, the only other thing that I'd want in there, is maybe some more residential in there. I know a hotel is required, but I wonder if they'd be open to expanding condos or something? Again, I'm all about increasing density / people downtown. It would be great to ensure Argyle isn't dead on weekends, the way, say, Bay Street is dead. And to avoid that, you need residential.
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  #3848  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 10:56 AM
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Argyle is pretty lively on weekends, and has been when that was office (Herald) and empty work site (now). Residential on Argyle could lead to noise and other complaints, where office creates a wall so maybe we can, I dunno, close Argyle and put a stage there and have a band play without a lot of hassle.
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  #3849  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Thanks for that. I couldn't find it.

From the Specifications, it looks like the advertised convention/ballroom space is actually bigger then spec'd. the confusion lies with 120,000 being broken down into smaller units, and the ballroom+convention floors not equaling 120,000.
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  #3850  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 3:34 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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The confusion lies with a group of old fuddy duddies who cannot see progress and who will twist and distort facts and figures to hold this city back for their own purposes.
Hopefully some day they ....... ....I can't say the rest of this sentence as it isn't very nice.
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  #3851  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 4:04 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax View Post
The confusion lies with a group of old fuddy duddies who cannot see progress and who will twist and distort facts and figures to hold this city back for their own purposes.
Hopefully some day they ....... ....I can't say the rest of this sentence as it isn't very nice.
This is one of the best posts on SSP I've ever seen!

Watch as these same opponents take some sort of credit when this is a success.

We won't forget
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  #3852  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 5:17 PM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
Argyle is pretty lively on weekends, and has been when that was office (Herald) and empty work site (now). Residential on Argyle could lead to noise and other complaints, where office creates a wall so maybe we can, I dunno, close Argyle and put a stage there and have a band play without a lot of hassle.
I guess I meant the other end of Argyle (not the one closer to Blower, which is great).

But I see your point.
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  #3853  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 5:18 PM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
This is not actually a fact. It is something Mr. Epstein and Surette are saying, but right now if the space comes back at less than 120,000 sf that would violate the contract. Halifax's funding is contingent on meeting that mark.
If it's false, then someone should call them out publicly for misleading the public.
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  #3854  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 6:18 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I'd go one step further from Keith's remarks - the issue isn't even whether the old centre was good and the new centre is better and resolves the issues with the old one - we're way past that.

The issue now isn't even if the NC is appropriate; past that too. Same with the funding formula - way past that too.

The question now before council (and I hope to god the issue is framed this way) is: Does the proposed building fit the planning box for the site? Meaning - does it avoid issues with the view planes, contribute to a good street and meets sound planning principals. All the rest, frankly is irrelevant.
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  #3855  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
The question now before council (and I hope to god the issue is framed this way) is: Does the proposed building fit the planning box for the site? Meaning - does it avoid issues with the view planes, contribute to a good street and meets sound planning principals. All the rest, frankly is irrelevant.
Yep. The other stuff is an attempt to derail the process.
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  #3856  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 12:12 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
If it's false, then someone should call them out publicly for misleading the public.
These and other folks rely on the misinformation.

There is no accountability.
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  #3857  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 12:44 AM
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Waye Mason Waye Mason is offline
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Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
If it's false, then someone should call them out publicly for misleading the public.
You will enjoy my op/ed piece in the Herald this Saturday.
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  #3858  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 12:58 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
You will enjoy my op/ed piece in the Herald this Saturday.
Will look for it!
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  #3859  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2014, 3:16 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
You will enjoy my op/ed piece in the Herald this Saturday.
I'll have to show it to Rollin - since he's asking for lots of information in preparation for our October visit.
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  #3860  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2014, 8:58 PM
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Convention centre debate must move on

Alright folks - it would be super if you put all that "Waye is anti development" stuff behind you and go comment about this project on the Herald website...

Quote:
Convention centre debate must move on

A couple of years ago, I was a vocal opponent of the P3 convention centre proposal for a bunch of reasons that simply no longer matter.

Why? Because on July 10, 2012, Halifax regional council approved an agreement with the provincial government regarding the new convention centre. Anyone who asked me about the convention centre during the 2012 election heard me say “an agreement was signed, and that ship has sailed.”

On Tuesday, regional council will hold a public hearing to consider two very important elements of the proposed convention centre: the proposed closure of Grafton Street where it goes through the convention centre site and changes to the buildings themselves.

The office tower on Argyle Street is proposed to be taller and wider than the original design while the street wall on Market Street is proposed to be shorter. The convention centre itself is no longer below grade and will now stretch over Grafton.

Do the positives of the new design outweigh the negatives? We want to hear from you. But let’s be clear, Tuesday’s public hearing is not an opportunity to cancel the convention centre. The only things under consideration are the closure of Grafton Street and the exterior height and massing of the buildings.

To cancel the convention centre now will result in an unfinished hole in the heart of downtown for many years, not to mention untold reputational risk and expensive legal wrangling.

I also need to address where we stand under the HRMByDesign downtown plan. The downtown plan includes provisions to “enable the development of a new publicly-sponsored convention centre together with retail, hotel, residential or office, and underground parking space on the two blocks bounded by Argyle Street, Prince Street, Market Street and Sackville Street.”

Moving the ballroom out of the basement has changed the building enough that regional council must consider whether to amend the planning documents and the land-use bylaw, and amendments to the downtown plan are recommended from time to time. Council has a duty to measure the current proposal against the proposal it already approved in 2009.

A third notion circulating in recent weeks is that the convention centre might be built without the accompanying office tower and hotel, which would wipe out the taxes that the municipality is relying on to cover the cost of building and operating the facility.

The agreement mentioned above requires that “the hotel and office tower will each be substantially completed to core and shell on the date the facility is substantially completed.” In short, no money flows from the city until the project is built.

The final issue is that the convention centre is going to be smaller than what was proposed as originally required in the provinces request for proposals.

The client rentable space will still be 120,000 square feet as outlined in the provincial request for proposals (RFP), which is in addition to the “back of house” space.

None of this is to say my support is unconditional — far from it. The convention centre must be 120,000 square feet. It has to be functional and high-quality. The office tower must be built. The hotel must be built. If these conditions cannot be met, then the contract is not met, and my support for the project is gone.

But right now, this is not about refighting 2012 over and over again. The municipality is going to hold up its end of the deal, and our partners will do the same. What I really want is to hear from you about what you think about these two important issues, Grafton Street and the building design.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1203133-convention-centre-debate-must-move-on
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