Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Innsertnamehere]

its contingent on passing this budget. Cancelling transit projects wouldn't exactly look good for any government given the extreme focus on infrastructure from the electorate right now, so once the money is there I doubt it will be leaving. Especially considering that the PCs are unlikely to get anything beyond a minority.

[DarkArconio]

Well if the budget doesn't pass, then we'll have an election on its contents, which is why I'm hopeful competing proposals will also have similar levels of funding, including phase 2.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DarkArconio

Well if the budget doesn't pass, then we'll have an election on its contents, which is why I'm hopeful competing proposals will also have similar levels of funding, including phase 2.

The Liberals are likely to campaign on this specific $ amt for transit with vague promises on revenues (that they won't keep). The Conservatives are likely to have specific tax cuts and tax freezes in their plan with vague promises on infrastructure that they won't keep.

Their caucus is likely to include very few MPPs from ridings where urban transit is a key issue. Harris cancelled a subway actually under construction so I would say it is a near certainty nothing approaching this level of funding will make it into their budget.

Too bad no party will campaign on the real choice which is higher taxes in return for more transit infrastructure.

[McC]

That should be the NDP's position, but Team Horvath has led the Party into a populist Neverneverland.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This needs confirmation, but apparently Kathleen Wynne just promised funding for Phase 2.

Here's an article that mentions it, third paragraph from the end:

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/14/wynne-announces-revenue-tools-for-transit

"... and the next phase of the Light Rail Transit in Ottawa, Wynne said."

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Catenary

Here's an article that mentions it, third paragraph from the end:

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/14/wynne-announces-revenue-tools-for-transit

"... and the next phase of the Light Rail Transit in Ottawa, Wynne said."

Doesn't the mayor have multiple next phases at this point? (Orleans, Bayshore, Riverside South)

Besides the obvious election gimmickery, this has slight of hand written all over it. They're saying 14B over 10 years for non-GTA projects for transit and transportation, which means most of it is probably the existing highway capital budget repackaged.

[S-Man]

Too bad no party will campaign on the real choice which is higher taxes in return for more transit infrastructure.

Oh, but the Ontario Liberals DID raise taxes, and by quite a bit, on gasoline and diesel fuel. In 2010, when both fuels were saddled with HST.

Suddenly, every litre of fuel in the entire province saw 8% of its cost ( 8 cents on the dollar) go towards the province (on top of existing provincial taxes already in place). Over 4 years, God knows how much revenue that represents for roads and transit.

But it was never sold as a "We'll build stuff with this" move; rather, the cash just flowed into general coffers, never to be seen again.

But by all means, raise taxes to cover the cost of lost revenue that disappeared the last time they raised taxes to cover the stuff they couldn't cover with existing taxes....and on and on.

I know taxes pays for services, no trouble with that, but it seems whenever they add a new one in this province, they punch a few more holes through the bottom of their spaghetti strainer of a public purse.

Just my 8 cents...

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Doesn't the mayor have multiple next phases at this point? (Orleans, Bayshore, Riverside South)

Besides the obvious election gimmickery, this has slight of hand written all over it. They're saying 14B over 10 years for non-GTA projects for transit and transportation, which means most of it is probably the existing highway capital budget repackaged.

Wynne very, very specifically said in the presentation that "This is new money". so no, it isn't repackaging. Its new money, going to a bunch of different projects.

[PokerPukka]

[QUOTE=DarkArconio;6538891]but I do wonder where money for a truck tunnel would come from. Presumably a different non-transit source?QUOTE]

Perhaps a truck tunnel would fall under Public Health and Safety considering how many accidents there've been over the last 10 years

[PokerPukka]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Wynne very, very specifically said in the presentation that "This is new money". so no, it isn't repackaging. Its new money, going to a bunch of different projects.

Where's this "new" money coming from? Are they going to invent a "transit premium" so we can get another kick in the junk when we do our taxes?

[Capital Shaun]

I seriously doubt there's money for a truck tunnel in there. Wasn't the funding for the study only announced last year? I wouldn't expect a funding commitment before we have the results from the study.

[Innsertnamehere]

While the final revenue tool announcements are to be made with the actual budget in a few weeks, the taxes are rumoured to be a high income earners tax of some sort as well has raised corporate tax rates. the tunnel is also extremely unlikely to be funded, it's barely beyond a basic feasibility study at this point. The other Ottawaish area project they seem to be discussing is further extending the 417 up to Renfrew and Petawawa.

[McC]

Originally Posted by S-Man

.

But by all means, raise taxes to cover the cost of lost revenue that disappeared the last time they raised taxes to cover the stuff they couldn't cover with existing taxes....and on and on.

I know taxes pays for services, no trouble with that, but it seems whenever they add a new one in this province, they punch a few more holes through the bottom of their spaghetti strainer of a public purse.

Just my 8 cents...

OT, but the provinces bring in less money overall by moving from their old retail sales tax PSTs to the value added tax HST, because it's no longer charged on intermediate goods, that's why the provinces negotiated a compensation package with the Feds for harmonizing, and BC was in the soup for "unharmonizing" -- it has to pay the federal government back the $1.6B!

[S-Man]

The province has never lost revenue. It has been rising each and every year - a quick glance at Ontario's finances on the Ontario website will show this. They didn't take a hit in 2010, and with gas prices rising to their current levels in 2010 (the summer of), there was lots of extra-expensive gas to draw taxes from.

Home heating fuel and electricity were also subject to sales tax for the first time, and given that we're a cold, dark northern province, I have to imagine the province made a few bucks off of that in the past 4 years.

Also, given that heating fuel and hydro is to rise in cost over the next...forever (42% on hydro over the next 5 years alone), the province's take from those taxes will also rise accordingly.

As for local projects here in town, there's a chance that a wishy-washy mention of Phase 2 LRT funding will materialize into something solid eventually, but a truck tunnel? Out of the question. There's no votes to buy in downtown Ottawa.

West Ottawa and the Valley, on the other hand...

[Kitchissippi]

The fact that all services are now subject to HST is a huge haul for the province, whereas PST was only on goods.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by S-Man

The province has never lost revenue. It has been rising each and every year - a quick glance at Ontario's finances on the Ontario website will show this. They didn't take a hit in 2010, and with gas prices rising to their current levels in 2010 (the summer of), there was lots of extra-expensive gas to draw taxes from.

Home heating fuel and electricity were also subject to sales tax for the first time, and given that we're a cold, dark northern province, I have to imagine the province made a few bucks off of that in the past 4 years.

Also, given that heating fuel and hydro is to rise in cost over the next...forever (42% on hydro over the next 5 years alone), the province's take from those taxes will also rise accordingly.

As for local projects here in town, there's a chance that a wishy-washy mention of Phase 2 LRT funding will materialize into something solid eventually, but a truck tunnel? Out of the question. There's no votes to buy in downtown Ottawa.

West Ottawa and the Valley, on the other hand...

If it was about vote buying, they would have pledged money for the 174, not the 17. Stop being so cynical.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by S-Man

The province has never lost revenue. It has been rising each and every year - a quick glance at Ontario's finances on the Ontario website will show this. They didn't take a hit in 2010, and with gas prices rising to their current levels in 2010 (the summer of), there was lots of extra-expensive gas to draw taxes from.

Home heating fuel and electricity were also subject to sales tax for the first time, and given that we're a cold, dark northern province, I have to imagine the province made a few bucks off of that in the past 4 years.

Also, given that heating fuel and hydro is to rise in cost over the next...forever (42% on hydro over the next 5 years alone), the province's take from those taxes will also rise accordingly.

As for local projects here in town, there's a chance that a wishy-washy mention of Phase 2 LRT funding will materialize into something solid eventually, but a truck tunnel? Out of the question. There's no votes to buy in downtown Ottawa.

West Ottawa and the Valley, on the other hand...

Cuts to income taxes and corporate taxes brought in at the same time as the HST mean overall revenues are lower than they would have been otherwise. All revenues have in fact increased but that is due to economic growth.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

I seriously doubt there's money for a truck tunnel in there. Wasn't the funding for the study only announced last year? I wouldn't expect a funding commitment before we have the results from the study.

A truck tunnel, unlike just about everything else that has been mentioned, might actually have the ability to pay for a large portion of itself through tolls.

By contrast, we're highly unlikely to see anyone ever dare to charge tolls on an extended Hwy 417 up the Ottawa Valley.

And just to be clear, transit infrastructure can pay for itself indirectly through lowering transportation costs, but the direct revenues are seldom enough to pay for the infrastructure directly.

[Radster]

Don't want to be a party pooper, but isn't this offtopic here? We have another thread of general Ottawa transit talk: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140075&page=271

[Dado]

Ya it is.

I was thinking the same thing but it "evolved" from a scattershot possible funding announcement from the Province, so it was almost inevitable.