Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by brankrom

Good discussion. I think overall (and some won't see it this way) the church is the number one reason for slow development over the decades. Denver and Colorado generally is similar in age and climate and even location. Both cities are in the middle of nowhere in relation to the region but Colorado and Denver specifically has far outpaced SLC and Utah in growth. Colorado is far more diverse and balanced politically than Utah. I've never lived in Denver I've just visited a few times but there's no question Denver dwarfs SLC in the region and nationally. Again all other things are equal IMO Climate, geography, location, trade routes and connections yet Denver grew for 100+ years to a large city with a lot of the same characteristics of east coast cities financially and socially. While Utah and SLC still suffers from stigma associated with Mormonism. I love living in SLC (except for the inversion) but to ignore the mormon issues and mormon control and to say it doesn't matter is completely dismissive. Outsiders are disenfranchised and marginalized and under represented the John Birch Society LDS branded version of ultra conservationism entrenched by the likes of Ezra Taft Benson for decades. Further 10% of income goes to a black hole that could be spent elsewhere. Utah wages are already low and skim 10% off the top that affects businesses bottom lines. Add in sub par funding for schools and church lobbyists that fought changes to tax structure to more appropriately distribute the funding burden for schools to larger families was a non starter a few years ago. Nutty conservatism and nutty beliefs have a negative affect on people's desire to move here. It is weird here and saying "other places are weird too" completely misses the point. No other place is like Utah, even places in the bible belt aren't like Utah when it come to monolithic control by a single organization/corporation and I lived deep in the bible belt for a decade. Evangelical christianity in the south does not have the monolithic hierarchy that Utah does.

People like to draw the parallels between Massachusetts and Utah, it's not even close. Utah has, from the very beginning been a theocracy, MA not so much. I would bet that lawmakers in Massachusetts never call Rome but I can bet that lawmakers call or get calls from LDS Inc. all the time. Mormons have run their little fiefdom from the beginning and to suggest that the LDS church doesn't run things and doesn't permeate every aspect of the Utah life is completely PR and apologetics. There's a certain smugness and arrogance that is very apparent to outsiders which comes from a century of isolation, unquestioned authority and well documented institutional xenophobia.

I would argue that SLC Geography is superior to Denver Geography, but that only strengthens your point.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Old&New

I would argue that SLC Geography is superior to Denver Geography, but that only strengthens your point.

No question SLC is far closer to wild public lands than the Denver metro. Utah's strange brand conservatism and the push to "take back" public lands from the feds perplexes me. It seems those in charge would like to take away the single biggest positive to living in Utah for outsiders ie access to outdoor activities. To say that the nuttiness has no connection with the mormon world view that 90% of the governing body shares just doesn't make sense. I don't understand those that say that it really isn't all that bad/strange/controlling. It is. I get the chamber of commerce PR aspect that wants things to grow and for business to thrive wants to minimize the oddities but to claim the oddities don't exist or claim its just like everywhere else really comes across as homerism. The stereotypes exist and for good reason reasons like the zion curtain and the aversion to gay people, brown people and the strange nutty conservationism I've already mentioned. The perception has many chances to change but Utah keeps being in the news mostly for the wrong reasons.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I hate, HATE when people say, "don't like it, leave it." It's so condescending and dismissive. As if our views aren't welcomed because they go counter to what you believe.

Utah is my home. I hate the government, but I still love my state. I hate how religion has too much influence in our daily lives - from liquor on down to defining who you can marry. I hate that our government is probably the most homogeneous government of any state in the country. I hate that all the power this state has, from the media on down to the elected officials, seems to be built around one philosophy and that diversity, for the most part there, has yet to catch up to the actual diversity in our state.

Very well said -- all of it -- but I particularly like the part above. I'm pretty — Mormon, and I really think the political and social domination of the state isn't just bad for Utah, but I also think it's bad for the members of the LDS Church who live here. For a population that has had such a huge percentage of their members live outside Utah and the United States for 18 months - 2 years, we can be awfully insular and isolated and terrified of ideas that come from outside of "Zion." I've known many members of huge LDS church who move here from outside of the "Mormon corridor" who really don't like the church here...it doesn't feel like it does elsewhere.

I think a lot of the members here take their domination for granted, which leads to the problems you mentioned, comrade. Any organization that dominates so completely is going to become entitled and arrogant, and ultimately lazy and even corrupt. I hate seeing that happening in Utah, because I love it here. And even though I'm a "believer," I see a lot of things wrong with what's happening around me, locally in my own community and at the state level of government.

[jedikermit]

Sorry....didn't realize this had already gone on for a few pages.

I am glad it's been as civil as it has. Good job, us!

About the "if you don't like it, leave" scenario....I don't even like it when we do that to people on this forum. There have been a few cases where there have been genuine trolls who have had to get the boot, but there are a lot of others who have felt unwelcome because their opinions were always Wrong. I'd rather see an open discussion than everyone just saying O I LUV THAT BUILDING AT THE U IS SO SHINY AND YUM BLAH.

Sometimes the voice of dissent gets the rest of us thinking. Goodness knows I'm slow enough on my own...I need help jump starting my brain bits.

[delts145]

Gleaming new federal courthouse opening in Utah

By ANNIE KNOX, Associated Press
Updated 7:20 pm, Wednesday, April 9, 2014

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/G...pening-in-Utah-5388194.php#photo-6143179

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A gleaming tower new to the Salt Lake City skyline features a 10-story spiral staircase, UV-filtering glass walls, and frosted, illuminated floors.

Its tenants, neither high-tech engineers nor luxury condominium owners, are moving in this week and deciding where to hang their robes.

Utah's new $185 million federal courthouse opens Monday, and workers on Wednesday were dusting the sunlit floors and white oak paneling.

"Very, very sleek, very modern," said Markus Zimmer, former clerk of the court who retired in 2006 and has been involved in the project for about two decades. "From a technological perspective, there's no comparison."


The new United States Federal Courthouse is shown Wednesday, April 9, 2014, in Salt Lake City. Federal court cases playing out in Utah will soon have a glossier, more modern setting. Officials on Wednesday are celebrating the opening of a new federal courthouse in downtown Salt Lake City, next-door to the existing building. They say it's a much-needed upgrade, with more space and better security. The $185 million building is designed to harness natural sunlight and use energy more efficiently. (Rick Bowmer, AP / AP)

The tower with views of the Wasatch Range is next door to the century-old federal courthouse. Equipped with digital monitors at attorneys' desks and building-wide Wi-Fi, it represents a digital transformation in the legal system.

And it's designed to awe: A sculpture mimicking a cloud of ice crystals towers above the atrium in a nod to Utah's singular geography and weather patterns. Each light bulb in the building can be individually programmed.

Judges' chambers are clustered together with glass doors, sleek steel fixtures and bright white walls. Despite the new design, elements of the formative setting have carried over to their offices: lamps with brass chains, claw-footed end tables and navy blue colonial-style couches.

The steel-and-concrete building is designed to withstand blasts and also contains bulletproof glass in some areas, said Amy Mills, project manager for Okland Construction. Other security measures include separate routes for judges, prisoners and the public. In the existing courthouse, they all used the same hallways.


(Rick Bowmer, AP / AP)

The old five-story sandstone and granite building dates back about 120 years, when Congress set aside $500,000 for its construction. Officials bought the site for a silver dollar, about a decade and a half after Utah became a state. The building also contained a post office.

Officials say other federal offices will move in there, but they haven't yet been specified.

The former facility's intricate plaster ceilings, oak siding and creaky wooden benches are beautiful, officials say, but they don't live up to 21st century demands.

The new courthouse spans about 400,000 square feet. In June, a cafe is scheduled to open on the main floor.

When workers razed the parking lot for the new plot, they found thousands of relics form a print shop and two blacksmith shops, as well as a 1930s billboard buried about 8 feet in the ground. Some of those will go on display on the main floor, said Sue Damour, the regional administrator for the U.S. General Services Administration, the building's landlord.

Local businesses such as Wasatch Electric and Beehive Glass helped construct the 10 stories.

It's unclear how much say judges, attorneys, clerks and others had in the new design from New York City-based architect Thomas Phifer, but judges' tastes have prompted courtroom makeovers before.

One former federal district judge in Utah had his courtroom ceiling repainted in red, white and blue. His successor balked at those shades, concealing them with more muted tones.

Utah's is the latest federal courthouse to go up in the U.S. since December, following Yuma, Ariz.

Los Angeles is next in line, with the debut of a fresh federal courthouse set for 2016.

(Rick Bowmer, AP / AP)








Photos: Ravell Call Deseret News










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[SLC Projects]

Wish it would tell us how many FT high it is. Guessing it has to be around 200 FT tall.

[Orlando]

Very nice! The outside is still very austere, but very well executed. I love the stainless steel, and the wood. I'm sure this will be published in an architecture magazine sometime soon.

[ToysNoiz]

I don't really want to continue the Mormon talk, but I do have something to add. I've never really experienced non-mormon discriminations (At least not from non family members) so it's interesting to hear these stories. But I think that is because of how I've been living recently. I'm going to a film school where most everyone is artsie fartsie, has crazy hair colors, are non LSD, and are ridiculously socially excepting. Those who are lds never bring it up. Many teachers are atheist, and when talking about religion, they always state that they are not trying to convince anyone to believe anything, they are just teaching about culture. You can talk to them just like they're your buddies. (One teacher is a bar tender who made me a mean — Mary when I had a photography job in Park City. Lol)

I don't ever talk to my neighbors so these are really the only people I interact with. I rarely ever think of the church or its members because of the environment I'm in. So really, I think I've been sheltered from harsh discrimination.

[StevenF]

I was out and about with my wife and 4 crazy kids today on a beautiful 70+ degree spring day. Walked around Main and snapped a few quick shots with my iPhone 5S. Sorry, I didn't get much of the construction going on around downtown with being with my kids. I was going to walk down State and get a few shots of the Plaza apartments to show how high the steel was getting. I decided against that as the kids were starting to climb on the buildings around us and sliding down staircases on the sides where it was like a slide. It was time to start heading back to the car at that point. Overall, it was a great time out with my family, and I was finally able to get out and take some photos like I did almost 2 years ago when I first moved back to Utah.

I was amazed at how many people were walking around Main and how full some of the bars and restaurants were. With how many people were around I was surprised to not see any street vendors. I was going to convince my wife to try one while we were down but since I didn't see any that never happened. Was a bit disappointed about that.

Enjoy these spring shots of downtown SLC.


Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Kinda hoping to see the CCH built down this street. I know I haven't voiced my opinion but I do think RWP would be the best option for its location on 2nd.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

222 is such a — building snuggling up against the Hotel Monaco. Its like high-rise —.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

I find this an interesting shot with the reflection of the Wells Fargo Center on the other side of Main on the buildings there.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

There was a lot of noise coming from this place.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

101 doesn't seem very impressive from this angle.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

I look forward to 145 being built and taking this shot again with it in it.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

The last shot for you all is a picture looking down Main from the gerbil tube.

Untitled by steven.fidler80, on Flickr

I also traveled to Sugar House to get a personal view of housing going in there and surprised on how urban it is getting. I don't think I saw one empty or not completely packed restaurant in the Granite Furniture building, except for the Firehouse Sub shop which was closed. I think Sugar House is screaming for more of that urban sit down and eat environment that the Granite building was offering. The street engagement was awesome along that stretch and then all of a sudden dead in other areas. Parking also seems to becoming an issue around the Granite building as the parking lot to the side was completely full and so was all the parking on the street. People were walking a good distance to get to the restaurants.

Sorry no photos of Sugar House as my wife went nuts the moment I pulled out my phone. Got scolded about not using my phone to take pictures while driving. Of course I had the quick comeback saying me.... of course not, I was pulling it out for you so you can take the shots. For some reason she didn't seem to believe that. She took the phone and wouldn't give it back till we were home.

[Orlando]

Nice photo update! Good to hear about the street liveliness.

[bob rulz]

What is going on in Sugar House is pretty incredible. I still try to get up there at least once per week. I can't wait to see how the streets will be buzzing when all of those new apartments and condos finish and fill up. The street car is still quiet, but once the new developments finish and some new development begins popping up along that corridor, I expect it to be flourishing as well.

[delts145]

Great photo update Steven! We've needed a good walking tour of Downtown, as it's been a while since the last one. I miss Springtime in Salt Lake City, and one of the best pano's I've seen of Regent Street Plaza...love that pic.

111 & UPAC are going to be great for that spot on the left. Then we can start putting the pressure on for a — tower on that lot between Daynes and Zions, also the restoration of the Pantages. That would pretty much complete all of the major needs for the northern and middle half of present day Main. After that we can start to push hard for the much needed additional development of the southern sector of Main.

Pic By StevenF

[SLC Projects]

Nice photos. Looks like the bike green lanes on main need to be repaint.

[delts145]

Steve, what time of day were the photo's taken, and was it a weekday or weekend?

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by delts145

Steve, what time of day were the photo's taken, and was it a weekday or weekend?

It was yesterday evening. I have my iPhone attached to my flickr account, so it doesn't take me long to upload the images and then have them posted to the site.

I am actually going back downtown again today and then the zoo afterwards. If I have time before the sun goes down I will try and actually take some pictures of Sugar House and the street activity that is going on there. I will even post some pictures of the new lion, giraffes and zebra exhibit. I know it isn't finished and they don't plan to have it officially opened until sometime in May, but it is far enough along to show what it will look like. If you want the best shots then I can always toss one of my kids over the fence.

[jedikermit]

Yeah, thanks for the photo update Steven! I'm down there all the time anyway, but still. Some great shots.

...and I still wish there was some kind of public open house for the Federal Court Building. Seeing the interior in person might help me love it more. I'm getting used to it, but I don't feel compelled to defend when friends/family complain about it.

[ToysNoiz]

Awesome photos. You and I were walking on Main at the exact same time. I didn't have my camera on me so Im glad you were able to snap some nice shots. I've visited downtown a couple times this week and its really been packed with people and cars.

Good mix of locals and tourists too; I was asked for directions to gateway from a Texan family who was amazed by the beauty of our city. Yesterday I stepped inside Temple Square for five minutes to see the flowers and I heard about six different languages being spoken. Which is common but still.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

Yeah, thanks for the photo update Steven! I'm down there all the time anyway, but still. Some great shots.

...and I still wish there was some kind of public open house for the Federal Court Building. Seeing the interior in person might help me love it more. I'm getting used to it, but I don't feel compelled to defend when friends/family complain about it.

I recommend checking out the inside of the Borg cube. It's really warm and welcoming.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

I recommend checking out the inside of the Borg cube. It's really warm and welcoming.

LOL...Step inside, it's really warm and welcoming huh...sounds like the spider is tempting the fly when you refer to it as the Borg Cube.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by delts145

LOL...Step inside, it's really warm and welcoming huh...sounds like the spider is tempting the fly when you refer to it as the Borg Cube.

shhhh.... Don't ruin the surprise!!!

But, seriously. The interior is very nice. Huge open wooden rooms with very nice views. Look at my photos again.