Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

I hope for a new tallest, and I want it to look taller than either Wells Fargo or the COB. Even though Wells Fargo is tallest, most Salt Lakers/Utahns think the COB is taller, because it's on higher ground, and because of the influence of the LDS Church. It'd be great to have a tower that not only is taller, but actually looks taller. Maybe with a spire or crown or Carl's Jr on top. Whatever.

I agree, especially since there is still confusion as to whether the Wells Fargo is actually taller in the first place - http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70538...-offers-Salt-Lakes-best-view.html?pg=all

I remember the grand opening flyer I had (before the digital days) when the American Stores HQ (aka Wells Fargo) that stated the roof of the WF bldg was only 400' with a 22' antenna, while the COB is 420' at roof level with a 15' antenna... I want a 500'+ undisputed champion!!!

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Nice.. I hope they let the developer choose the location.. They know their market and will most likely not pick RWP..

If the developer has a say I think the Plaza block will likely be their first choice.. If the can work out a deal with LDS.

Hopefully 35 floors is the low-end of what they're planning.. I would be disappointed with anything under 40..

The Plaza block would look terrible with a new tallest. That end of the skyline already looks lopsided with the COB. A new tallest would look best on West Temple, but probably wont fit... which leaves RWP. Taller buildings west of the Salt Palace would really help with overcoming the wall effect the SP creates.

[ToysNoiz]

Problem solved.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by DMTower

The Plaza block would look terrible with a new tallest. That end of the skyline already looks lopsided with the COB. A new tallest would look best on West Temple, but probably wont fit... which leaves RWP. Taller buildings west of the Salt Palace would really help with overcoming the wall effect the SP creates.

I care less about the skyline than I do about practicality and convenience for our guests.. That is by far the best spot for a hotel.

Plus maybe it will create a motivation to build another tall tower further south

I would also be okay with West Temple.. I think RWP is an absolute horrible location unless the block can be 100% demolished and completely redeveloped.. With the first south to second West Street illusion to hide the fact that it's a dead corner... That's never going to happen so I just don't like RWP

[Old&New]

With the CCH on RWP, it could be the beginnings of making 200 south an east-to-west tower street.

[Comrade]

[Reachforthesky]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Woah! Awesome Shot! never seen anything like it before! Really puts Murray right next to Downtown.

Another angle of Downtown that looks great from Murray is I-15 between 53th and 45th. Lines up perfectly with downtown! A Zoomed up shot from there would be amazing!

[jedikermit]

Not really development related, just a celebration of an amenity... with the weather as amazing as it's been the last few days I've been spending my lunch hour in Liberty Park; what a great place close to downtown. So cool to see so many people there at just about every time of day. So glad that someone had the foresight to preserve that chunk of green space back in the day, and design the park that it is today. Love it.

That's all. Back to RWP loving/hating.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Old&New

With the CCH on RWP, it could be the beginnings of making 200 south an east-to-west tower street.

I almost never post, but I think too many people are focused on the skyline aspect of the CCH. Skyscrapers are great and important to a city, but the heart of the city is at eye level, it is the energy found on the sidewalks and streets. RWP is handsdown the best spot because it serves as the only real viable option to connect main street to the Gateway district. The South Temple parking lot between 2nd and 3rd is ugly and needs to be developed, but we aren't trying to bring people from Temple Square over a few blocks west and therefore that area is not the best connector. Before I moved to Brazil a few months ago, I spent the last 6 years living in Philadelphia. Philly is a great example of a city with a great east to west skyline and also a city that has great energy on the street level and generally the downtown is very connected. The RWP block may not be the best place from a skyline perspective, but in terms of having the most positive impact on Salt Lake and its continued urbanization, RWP is hands down the best option.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Cool shot... It is only 5 miles from Murray to Downtown SLC but the miles of car lots and bad development make it seem even further.

That pic makes the Capitol Building seem HUGE.

I'll venture a guess that the pic was taken from the pedestrian bridge at Murray HS.

[DCRes]

I love standing on Main Street and looking down at the "canyon effect", but then when you look off of Main it is a lot less dense. Standing on the corner of 200 S and Main I often imagine seeing 111 ahead of me, Boyer 145/151 to the right, and CCH (if at RWP) to the left. You will be able to see all three from right there and it will make the area seem much more dense.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by asies1981

I almost never post, but I think too many people are focused on the skyline aspect of the CCH. Skyscrapers are great and important to a city, but the heart of the city is at eye level, it is the energy found on the sidewalks and streets. RWP is handsdown the best spot because it serves as the only real viable option to connect main street to the Gateway district. The South Temple parking lot between 2nd and 3rd is ugly and needs to be developed, but we aren't trying to bring people from Temple Square over a few blocks west and therefore that area is not the best connector. Before I moved to Brazil a few months ago, I spent the last 6 years living in Philadelphia. Philly is a great example of a city with a great east to west skyline and also a city that has great energy on the street level and generally the downtown is very connected. The RWP block may not be the best place from a skyline perspective, but in terms of having the most positive impact on Salt Lake and its continued urbanization, RWP is hands down the best option.

I very much agree Asies1981. The east to west development of the 200 S. corridor is extremely important. It's critical, not just because Gateway desperately needs the additional shot in the arm, but because it's time for that entire 200 S. corridor to realize it's potential. Nothing will bring on that 2nd S. redevelopment realization faster than the placement of the CCH and all of it's vast surrounding ancillary needs at the RWP site. The Salt Lake CCH will be very similar in scope to the Denver CCH. While the tower might hopefully be a bit more stylized, it's the surrounding accompaniment of space that Denver's Center takes up that interests me. Nothing will immediately repair the broken teeth of that corridor and much of what's in between So. Temple and 1st/2nd So. than that massive CCH undertaking.

I don't understand why anyone would presume that somehow the back side of the Convention Center will all be left the same. The very construction of this massive complex will necessitate the overhaul of much of what we now know as the back side of the Convention Center. It isn't only 2nd S. that will greatly benefit, but also 2nd and 3rd W. As I've stated before, here in L.A. the construction of the new CCH has transformed a very large and much more dicey area of downtown almost as if over night. And I'm not talking all of the additional visionary developments that tend to fall into place after something of this nature. I'm talking just the Hotel Towers and their massive surrounding footprint. The same could probably be said for Denver, although I'm not as personally familiar with the entire complex. Since the construction of the L.A. CCH, there has also been a non-stop parade of redevelopment surrounding it's area, and this has been during the big recession. I live within easy walking distance of the new L.A. CCH. It's effect is something I encounter almost daily. There is no doubt in my mind that the RWP site will transform 2nd S. and the backside of the Convention Center into something that Salt Lake can be proud to show it's visitors. Choosing the RWP site is not in any way going to somehow deprive visitors of experiencing Temple Sq. or CCC. They'll still visit, but probably will give Gateway more of a fighting chance too. Sure, the Temple Square Campus is probably among the few most beautiful downtown areas in the nation. And now there's CCC to add to it. I think the LDS Church will move on those parking lots sooner than later, but it's not going to be for a Convention Hotel, at least not on the Plaza block. When they do develop it, it's going to be beautiful, just like the rest of their downtown campus. Let's just be patient, and let the LDS Church do it's thing over on So. Temple. However, no one should expect them to also pick up the slack on 2nd So. This CCH is exactly what downtown Salt Lake needs to finally complete the transformation of the entire east to west 2nd S. corridor, without having to expect handouts from the LDS Churches business interests.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by asies1981

I almost never post, but I think too many people are focused on the skyline aspect of the CCH. Skyscrapers are great and important to a city, but the heart of the city is at eye level, it is the energy found on the sidewalks and streets. RWP is handsdown the best spot because it serves as the only real viable option to connect main street to the Gateway district.

I completely agree. I'm excited to have a potential new tallest, but if it doesn't bring more life and engagement to the streets it's on, it's kind of pointless. I'd love to see it on RWP primarily for the reason you gave, making more of a connection from Gateway to the rest of downtown. Hoping for the best.

[utenation]

Originally Posted by delts145

I very much agree Asies1981. The east to west development of the 200 S. corridor is extremely important. It's critical, not just because Gateway desperately needs the additional shot in the arm, but because it's time for that entire 200 S. corridor to realize it's potential. Nothing will bring on that 2nd S. redevelopment realization faster than the placement of the CCH and all of it's vast surrounding ancillary needs at the RWP site. The Salt Lake CCH will be very similar in scope to the Denver CCH. While the tower might hopefully be a bit more stylized, it's the surrounding accompaniment of space that Denver's Center takes up that interests me. Nothing will immediately repair the broken teeth of that corridor and much of what's in between So. Temple and 1st/2nd So. than that massive CCH undertaking. I don't understand why anyone would presume that somehow the back side of the Convention Center will all be left the same. The very construction of this massive complex will necessitate the overhaul of much of what we now know as the back side of the Convention Center. It isn't only 2nd S. that will greatly benefit, but also 2nd and 3rd W. As I've stated before, here in L.A. the construction of the new CCH has transformed a very large and much more dicey area of downtown almost as if over night. And I'm not talking all of the additional visionary developments that tend to fall into place after something of this nature. I'm talking just the Hotel Towers and their massive surrounding footprint. The same could probably be said for Denver, although I'm not as personally familiar with the entire complex. Since the construction of the L.A. CCH, there has also been a non-stop parade of redevelopment surrounding it's area, and this has been during the big recession. I live within easy walking distance of the new L.A. CCH. It's effect is something I encounter almost daily. There is no doubt in my mind that the RWP site will transform 2nd S. and the backside of the Convention Center into something that Salt Lake can be proud to show it's visitors. Choosing the RWP site is not in any way going to somehow deprive visitors of experiencing Temple Sq. or CCC. They'll still visit, but probably will give Gateway more of a fighting chance too. Sure, the Temple Square Campus is probably among the few most beautiful downtown areas in the nation. And now there's CCC to add to it. I think the LDS Church will move on those parking lots sooner than later, but it's not going to be for a Convention Hotel, at least not on the Plaza block. When they do develop it, it's going to be beautiful, just like the rest of their downtown campus. Let's just be patient, and let the LDS Church do it's thing over on So. Temple. However, no one should expect them to also pick up the slack on 2nd So. This CCH is exactly what downtown Salt Lake needs to finally complete the transformation of the entire east to west 2nd S. corridor, without having to expect handouts from the LDS Churches business interests.

Well said Delts.

I have a good feeling about this. With so many city/county/state leaders involved in the process to this point, I think a few birds will be hit with one stone.

If the RWP site is the one, as others have mentioned, it will open the flood gates for the west side.. And this project will most likely be more than a tower and meeting space..

[Future Mayor]

I just got an e-mail notification that someone replied to my comment on the March 16th Trib article about the CCH. Seriously, doesn't that person have anything better to do than make comments on an article from 3 weeks ago.

All of his points were absolutely irrelevant; Saying that because the LDS church was the developer that it would be a non taxable building, comparing using TIF money for the CCH to using TIF money to build a grocery store across from an existing grocery store, and that the Grand/Little America were against the legislation. Sometimes idiotic, uninformed people make me laugh, other times they piss me off.



Don't get me wrong, I understand that people have differing opinions and valid arguments to back up their opinions, just like our S. Temple vs RWP discussion, neither is wrong and both have their positives and negatives. But when someone spouts off completely irrelevant and untrue arguments it just pisses me off.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Saying that because the LDS church was the developer that it would be a non taxable building, comparing using TIF money for the CCH to using TIF money to build a grocery store across from an existing grocery store, and that the Grand/Little America were against the legislation. Sometimes idiotic, uninformed people make me laugh, other times they piss me off.

I sighed loudly and covered my face when I read this. Reminds me of some conspiracy theories; connecting dots that aren't even remotely related to each other to form a story. Such ignorance.....

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I just got an e-mail notification that someone replied to my comment on the March 16th Trib article about the CCH. Seriously, doesn't that person have anything better to do than make comments on an article from 3 weeks ago.

All of his points were absolutely irrelevant; Saying that because the LDS church was the developer that it would be a non taxable building, comparing using TIF money for the CCH to using TIF money to build a grocery store across from an existing grocery store, and that the Grand/Little America were against the legislation. Sometimes idiotic, uninformed people make me laugh, other times they piss me off.



Don't get me wrong, I understand that people have differing opinions and valid arguments to back up their opinions, just like our S. Temple vs RWP discussion, neither is wrong and both have their positives and negatives. But when someone spouts off completely irrelevant and untrue arguments it just pisses me off.

Although I believe the PAC tower will be taxable and not house church business and will remain part the LDS churches secular business investments, as someone who grew up in Utah I can see why people get nervous when the LDS church purchases more property in downtown SLC. Utah is notorious for not always being welcoming to people who aren't and don't want to be LDS or live an LDS lifestyle. But for decades SLC is and has been a cultural refuge for those that don't fit into mainstream LDS/Utah culture. I read today that the LDS church/Deseret News wants to purchase the SL Trib, those type of actions are going to make the large non LDS population in SLC nervous about an expanding LDS presence. You can be weary of the LDS church owning more of downtown without being anti-LDS and still appreciating their contributions to downtown. Although many people become bitter against the LDS church and/or fearful of their motives, there is value in not wanting just one major player in downtown. Part of what makes cities and downtowns so great is their diversity and greater acceptance of differing opinions. I can tell you that outside of the Mountain West most people think of SLC just as the mormon headquaters when it is so much more than that. If SLC wants to attract more companies and truly grow into a world class city, it needs more than just tall buildings but a truly diverse downtown. I believe SLC is heading in that direction (a la Goldman Sachs etc.) but if the city doesn't get some other big players besides the LDS church growth isn't going to be what it could and should be.

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by asies1981

I read today that the LDS church/Deseret News wants to purchase the SL Trib, those type of actions are going to make the large non LDS population in SLC nervous about an expanding LDS presence.

I would like to know where you read that. Trib has a larger local circulation then the Dnews. The last group of people they would sell to would be the Dnews, just from my experience with them. That's like the U of U selling their sports teams to BYU.

Nevermind I found something http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57791269-78/tribune-news-digital-deal.html.csp Still do not think it will happen.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

I would like to know where you read that. Trib has a larger local circulation then the Dnews. The last group of people they would sell to would be the Dnews, just from my experience with them. That's like the U of U selling their sports teams to BYU.

Nevermind I found something http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57791269-78/tribune-news-digital-deal.html.csp Still do not think it will happen.

Remember that the Trib is owned by a NYC company that is in the news business for profit. The owners of the trib are not the same as the editorial board of the newspaper. I think it would be bad for Utah to lose an independent trib. Different voices are good and I have no problem with the Des News because the Trib exists to provide another side to the story, just like the U balances BYU, lol.

[utenation]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

I would like to know where you read that. Trib has a larger local circulation then the Dnews. The last group of people they would sell to would be the Dnews, just from my experience with them. That's like the U of U selling their sports teams to BYU.

Nevermind I found something http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57791269-78/tribune-news-digital-deal.html.csp Still do not think it will happen.

If the Trib does sale, I would really hope an outside entity is the buyer rather than the D-News.

Last thing this area needs is more one sided, one option religious-propoganda machines.