Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHX31]

/\ Well that's — —. That building has uber potential for any number of uses. How the hell does this always happen, especially for MORE parking? Who is doing the demolition? Eh, forget it. I don't even really care anymore at this point.

EDIT: Actually, where are you hearing about this and in what regard? That building likely has a basement, or at least a semi-lowered ground floor. It's not like they can just knock the building over and pave over the dirt, a parking lot will actually cost money to "build'. Is there some sort of real plan in the future? Or is the owner just sick of paying taxes on a vacant building, so they're going to knock it down? And when will the city start to tax landbankers?... the waste of space and non-development HAS to cost the city a — ton of tax revenue in the long run. Not just direct taxes from taxing a piece of land... but if things were actually developed on this land, that would generate revenue for the city in many direct and indirect ways.

[PHX31]

It seems as though the same people (Wistosky Family Trust) also own the building immediately north of the building about to be demolished. I think we recently talked about this one, the Madison Event Center.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/08/16/20080816phx-building0816.html

http://www.theuntz.com/MadisonEventCenter

(those were likely old articles, but still)

Could they be demolishing the building to make room for more parking for the Madison Event Center? And how unbelievably ridiculous would that be? Talk about wanting to turn a great old building into a space for downtown, and then destroy a similar building next to it?

A search shows that Malcolm Marr is the Manager of this property for the Wistosky family, and he's the dude behind the Madison Event Center (supposedly - back in 2008).
http://images.azcc.gov/scripts/cgi/dwispart2.pl

Really, anyone have any idea what the hell is going on?

EDIT: And then I found this strange article, talking about illicit raves being held down there.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2009-05-0...-exceeds-clean-election-spending-limits/

Are they being forced to demolish? Are they spiting people? Why do crazy and people with fucked up plans always seem to hold the power of the coolest parts of everything downtown?

Looking more into it, that little corner (5th Ave & Jackson) is one of the last great warehouse district corners (new Sheriffs office notwithstanding). There is this warehouse. Then the icehouse and other cool buildings on the south side, which lead directly to Union Station. Then the Santa Fe building (as over shadowed as it is).

— man.

[vertex]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Where? 440 W. Jackson appears to be the Ice House.

Icehouse is at 429, across the street. AFAIK, Helen Hestenes still owns the place outright; fat chance she would do something so stupid.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHX31

It seems as though the same people (Wistosky Family Trust) also own the building immediately north of the building about to be demolished. I think we recently talked about this one, the Madison Event Center.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/08/16/20080816phx-building0816.html

http://www.theuntz.com/MadisonEventCenter

(those were likely old articles, but still)

Could they be demolishing the building to make room for more parking for the Madison Event Center? And how unbelievably ridiculous would that be? Talk about wanting to turn a great old building into a space for downtown, and then destroy a similar building next to it?

A search shows that Malcolm Marr is the Manager of this property for the Wistosky family, and he's the dude behind the Madison Event Center (supposedly - back in 2008).
http://images.azcc.gov/scripts/cgi/dwispart2.pl

Really, anyone have any idea what the hell is going on?

EDIT: And then I found this strange article, talking about illicit raves being held down there.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2009-05-0...-exceeds-clean-election-spending-limits/

Are they being forced to demolish? Are they spiting people? Why do crazy and people with fucked up plans always seem to hold the power of the coolest parts of everything downtown?

Looking more into it, that little corner (5th Ave & Jackson) is one of the last great warehouse district corners (new Sheriffs office notwithstanding). There is this warehouse. Then the icehouse and other cool buildings on the south side, which lead directly to Union Station. Then the Santa Fe building (as over shadowed as it is).

— man.

Yea, this is really —. I just toured the district, and without dout thought this area had the most potential. The building to the east, if anything, should be demolished, though of course they're the ones doing the demo.

According to Google, a dance company is one of the current tenants. Great- let's keep pushing out anything that's not govt or homeless/criminal related.

[Jjs5056]

So, what the heck happened to turning the Lexington on Central into a boutique hotel? Are those plans officially dead? If so, that's a shame to have lost a midrise hotel right near Hance, etc.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Yea, this is really —. I just toured the district, and without dout thought this area had the most potential. The building to the east, if and preservinganything, should be demolished, though of course they're the ones doing the demo.

According to Google, a dance company is one of the current tenants. Great- let's keep pushing out anything that's not govt or homeless/criminal related.

You mean there is a demolition contractor that resides next door that is going to be doing the demo on the building?

I wish all of the do-gooders (ie michael lavine) with stakes in the warehouse district would band together, from some LLC, combine their money, raise money (like kick starter for saving and preserving historic buildings), then try to buy these doomed gems from these people. People that contribute get tours or something as incentive. I know there are way more people than just us forumers that have real interest and stakes down there. This can't be good for them.

[Jjs5056]

Sorry, it was late. I assume the bail bonds place is housed in the hideous building just east of this to-to-be wrecked priceless structure. They aren't physically tearing it down.

I think Michael Levine has probably had enough in terms of money, time, and energy trying to save assets for a city that does nothing but slap him in the face for it. Especially considering the St James and Madison hotel fiasco, it's obvious that property owners will choose to do what's best for their business when there's nothing for them to gain financially for not demo-ing.

The economy killed whatever momentum Jackson was gaining, but reality is that it won't ever be like the warehouse districts that have revitalized so many other cities. Our government made sure of that by ceasing Amtrak service, closing off what could've been reused as a museum and park (Union Station), filled the windows of one of the nest designed buildings left in Phoenix (Chambers Warehouse) and rented out the rest to a telecom center when there are 5-6 ground level retail spaces, built a jail in the center of what would've been this district, and moved over tons of other not so glamorous jobs, while snatching up great buildings, and building monster garages on top of others.

Levine owns quite a few of the warehouses so I imagine at some point they'll become destinations such as The Duce or Bentley; but, unless housing across from HIV counseling or probation services increases in demand, they won't be part of any connected neighborhood.

I'd love to be wrong and would join you (remotely - don't live there currently) if you think of a reason. But, having just seen what's been done to the area already, I've lost a bit of drive myself.

[PHX31]

I would think these people would see the success he is having with adaptive reuse and try to emulate it.

[ASUSunDevil]

They recently demo'd the SE corner of 20th and Camelback. Anyone know what they're putting there? That's a pretty prime piece of real estate at Biltmore Town & Country...

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHX31

I would think these people would see the success he is having with adaptive reuse and try to emulate it.

You would think so. But, you would think that this city would've caught onto a lot of the issues we discusss consistently here and they haven't.

Even Levine, with capital from his other investments and aid from the city's programs, could only manage to finance a portion of his current rehab. Why go through all of that hassle - to be left with an asset that could depreciate at any moment given the city and county's record of bringing in services that would drop land values, as would tear downs, etc. Levine has also grown a brand around himself... Others probably wouldn't be as fortunate in getting people south of the stadiums.

I'm all for it and hope it happens. I see so much potential and if I had access to the funds, I'd be right out there hammering away. But, with this city, we need to pick our battles. I think we lost the warehouse one a long time ago, but people are obviously willing to adapt older buildings downtown so that's a definite plus.

[Jjs5056]

Is there any way to view submitted responses to RFPs/RFIs on the phoenix.gov site? Additionally, can you search for an actual site plan, or only the status of one?

The City has put out quite a few RFPs over the years, and I would be interested in seeing what responses, if any, they received:
1) Entertainment District - IIRC, JSED was the result of a City-initiated RFP for an entertainment district; by the time the proposals were due, it was clear JSED was the frontrunner, but I wonder if anyone else submitted?
2) Security Building: The City put out an RFI in 2008 for any and/or all of the retail spaces, which would result in naming rights, etc. Clearly, the building is still vacant so was there simply no interest?
3) 2nd Ave rehabs: Metrowest was awarded this RFP to rehab 2 historic homes and build a 3rd on 2nd ave; I'd like to know if anyone proposed something other than single-family usage.
4) Central Station: I believe responses were due by now?
5) Adams Street: They should have, or should be sending RFPs for the Matador site and Central/Adams lot.
6) Barrister Building: would love to see these once they come in; I really hope developers take a chance and do something unexpected, which at this point would be anything other than office use. A condo conversion would be really awesome.

[Jjs5056]

So, what am I missing here? We already have a biomedical campus planned for downtown Phoenix since 2005, that has built all but 3 buildings while land-banking the majority of the eastern portion of our core for god knows how long. So, why the hell are creating an Arizona Biomedical Corridor in northern Phoenix?

This city is so freaking stupid. In 2016, at 6pm on a Wednesday, there won't be a soul in sight as the last of the law students pack up, just blocks away from Biomedical workers and students who they'll probably never interact with since both have built horrible, insular campuses, and I'll down my vodka tonic on the patio of Bliss overlooking the empty city-banked land of Evans Churchill wondering how a city could continually sobotage itself.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...-moves-closer-to-developing-arizona.html

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

So, what am I missing here? We already have a biomedical campus planned for downtown Phoenix since 2005, that has built all but 3 buildings while land-banking the majority of the eastern portion of our core for god knows how long. So, why the hell are creating an Arizona Biomedical Corridor in northern Phoenix?

One word: Mayo

The prestige associated with that brand name will cause cities to fall all over themselves in an effort to cultivate its presence. Sadly, like so many organizations that come here from other parts of the country, Mayo is firmly established in the core of its home city, Rochester MN, but thinks in terms of exurban "resort setting" locations when it comes to choosing sites here in Phoenix.

[soleri]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Is there any way to view submitted responses to RFPs/RFIs on the phoenix.gov site? Additionally, can you search for an actual site plan, or only the status of one?

The City has put out quite a few RFPs over the years, and I would be interested in seeing what responses, if any, they received:
1) Entertainment District - IIRC, JSED was the result of a City-initiated RFP for an entertainment district; by the time the proposals were due, it was clear JSED was the frontrunner, but I wonder if anyone else submitted?
2) Security Building: The City put out an RFI in 2008 for any and/or all of the retail spaces, which would result in naming rights, etc. Clearly, the building is still vacant so was there simply no interest?
3) 2nd Ave rehabs: Metrowest was awarded this RFP to rehab 2 historic homes and build a 3rd on 2nd ave; I'd like to know if anyone proposed something other than single-family usage.
4) Central Station: I believe responses were due by now?
5) Adams Street: They should have, or should be sending RFPs for the Matador site and Central/Adams lot.
6) Barrister Building: would love to see these once they come in; I really hope developers take a chance and do something unexpected, which at this point would be anything other than office use. A condo conversion would be really awesome.

Sometimes when the market speaks, the silence is deafening.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by soleri

Sometimes when the market speaks, the silence is deafening.

Sure. I'm still curious of any ideas put forward, though.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Sure. I'm still curious of any ideas put forward, though.

Maybe there weren't any ideas put forward.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Maybe there weren't any ideas put forward.

Well, MetroWest had to have submitted something to have won the business re: 2nd Ave, and the City decided to RFP the Central Station property only after a developer had contacted them; if nothing else, I would think that company would submit a response.

I wouldn't be surprised if nobody answered the Security Building's, however, given the timing (08). I wonder if they are considering sending it out again? It's hard for me to believe that not one retail space has been leased at that location in 7 or so years.

I also wouldn't be surprised if nobody responds to the Bannister Building request, but really want to see something done with that block. It sounds like Luhrs has a few more restaurants lined up, and with the Marriott coming on board soon, it'd be nice to have Jefferson built out and covering some of the blemishes in CityScape's offering. Like I said, I'd really like to see a condo conversion, with the rest of the block designed in a contrasting modern design ; perhaps echoing Luhrs in designing an arcade between the Bannister and a new, more modern midrise for either apartments or offices? Would be nice to see an attraction at the bottom anchor the entire project - something like the Rock n Roll Museum branch we were supposed to get back in the day.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

One word: Mayo

The prestige associated with that brand name will cause cities to fall all over themselves in an effort to cultivate its presence. Sadly, like so many organizations that come here from other parts of the country, Mayo is firmly established in the core of its home city, Rochester MN, but thinks in terms of exurban "resort setting" locations when it comes to choosing sites here in Phoenix.

There's so much more wrong with the attitudes of our leaders as evidenced by that article, however, than simply catering to Mayo. Ideally, we'd have a City that would be able to make whatever deals necessary happen to bring a Mayo presence to the downtown campus to use as leverage, but given that didn't happen, aren't there any other complementary - rather than duplicative - efforts we could launch near Mayo to appease the 'big guys,' while not totally sucking the momentum out of an already-struggling campus downtown? A research center or similar is much different than a "Biomedical Corridor" which is direct competition, and one that downtown will always lose as it does to the suburbs in every other category. This was supposed to be downtown's economic driving force; the main catalyst for economic growth, high-paying jobs, etc.

It's incredibly sad to hear Stanton's comment about land use near Mayo - what about land uses near the downtown campus? He's not okay with strip malls out by Mayo, but is okay with a far-flung campus that will take up 1/3 of downtown upon completion with its slew of 6 story buildings, because of its failure to nail down enough investment at a time for larger infrastructure. And, half of that 1/3 land will sit empty for several decades in the heart of the fastest-growing part of the city, blocking Evans Churchill from building off the Roosevelt Row momentum.

I'm sure someone else can do the math, but I'm sure the square footage being constructed for this foreign investor would result in a taller "tower" than the 8-story TGEN building. That's smart growth, Stanton.

That doesn't eradicate the good the campus has done, or will do, downtown. But, it can't be what it was promised to be when foreign investors are pouring money into resources at Mayo with the backing of the mayor, and the downtown campus keeps building one 6-story building a year. They've been highlighting the construction of a parking garage, for god's sake. If this Mayo corridor is inevitable, sell off the northern pieces of land, and start building to accommodate additional levels if needed on the current footprint. What's happening now is an insult to the downtown community and the workers of the downtown campus and the master plan needs to change with this big of a money wrench thrown into the competitive landscape.

[Prestige Worldwide]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

It's incredibly sad to hear Stanton's comment about land use near Mayo - what about land uses near the downtown campus? He's not okay with strip malls out by Mayo, but is okay with a far-flung campus that will take up 1/3 of downtown upon completion with its slew of 6 story buildings, because of its failure to nail down enough investment at a time for larger infrastructure. And, half of that 1/3 land will sit empty for several decades in the heart of the fastest-growing part of the city, blocking Evans Churchill from building off the Roosevelt Row momentum.

I find the criticism of Stanton hilarious. If it weren't for Stanton, those parcels would have wound up as an NFL stadium used 14 times a year at most. Lot's of people forget about this. Downtown would have looked a lot different had that happened, and not for the better.

There will come a time for the City to cut loose the parcels bordering Garfield from 4th St. to 7th St. from the BioScience Campus and if there was high confidence that an RFP would yield some proposals for dense residential, I think they would go in that direction. However, the demand probably isn't quite there yet, so it is wise to give more time for the BioScience Campus to develop further. I'm not wild and crazy about the Mayo BioScience Campus, but it's better that it is located within Phoenix than some other suburb vulturing it. Phoenix's city limits are large and some assets are going to be distributed.

I think lots of people are frustrated with the slow pace of development Downtown, me included, but what most people who aren't originally from here don't realize is that when you take the long view, what HAS happened since 2007/2008, has been pretty remarkable considering where we were 30 years ago. I mean, we were litterally starting from about as rock bottom as you could get.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide

I find the criticism of Stanton hilarious. If it weren't for Stanton, those parcels would have wound up as an NFL stadium used 14 times a year at most. Lot's of people forget about this. Downtown would have looked a lot different had that happened, and not for the better.

14 times a year? Glendale is the much bigger disaster.

http://www.universityofphoenixstadium.com/events/page/1