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  #221  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 11:13 PM
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Metrolinx has released dozens of documents on all sorts of things, DRL planning, taxes, cost benefit analyses, etc. They are all online, just do a google. There are detailed planning documents for many of the planned expansions, with EAs currently ongoing for many more. They have done all they can as bureaucrats, and handed it off to the province to do the political portion of the work, and the final, more politically palatable plan is yet to be seen as it will be presented in the spring budget. Come voting time, shall it even come, the Liberals will have a detailed plan, but that plan is still being formulated so to speak. In the mean time, there are plenty of detailed planning documents to gaze at, should you so wish. The recommended taxes document from Metrolinx is several hundred pages long alone.
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  #222  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 11:42 PM
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Getting back on topic, I have an idea for the 174. How about building a new 4-lane freeway to Rockland but incorporating a BRT?

Here's my idea:
-Add new BRT lanes from Place D'Orleans to Trim
-At Trim, extend the freeway but along a new route south of Cumberland, just south of all the estates but north of the Innes Rd axis, that would continue along the south edge of Rockland's urban area ending at Landry Rd. The old 174 routing would become a local route. This freeway extension would be 4 lanes--2 BRT lanes, 2 car lanes.
-With these new lanes create BRT from Landry Rd in Rockland to the LRT station at Place D'Orleans. BRT would be operated by Clarence-Rockland Transpo. Along the route build a transit-oriented town centre that could serve as a CBD for Rockland.

This could allow Rockland to grow in a more compact and transit-oriented way, forming a true transit suburb. It could also take growth pressure away from Orleans which is expanding dangerously close to the Mer Bleue bog IMO.
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  #223  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2014, 2:25 PM
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The south option East of Trim is no longer available since the City has approved Cardinal Creek Village. Blame the indifference and ignorance of Councillor Stephen Blais on this one.

The EA is currently studying 3 options east of Trim:
1) Expanding current 174
2) South route with connection to Innes Road
3) South Route with connection to 174

The city's planning department and our trustworthy Councillor in Cumberland Ward effectively killed option 3 since now that Cardinal Creek Village is approved, the "village" plan blocks access from 174 to the southern route.


The current 174 cannot be expanded to 4 lanes as a "highway", there are too many driveways and access points along the route, the best that could be done is a 4-lane arterial route.

There is a lot of hypocrisy in both the City of Ottawa and Rockland's complaints about the downloading of the route. Both cities proceeded to allow development along the 174/17 after the downloading, especially in Rockland that converted the 17 into Big Box Retail land. They were happy to rake in the new development charges and taxes generated from hooking onto the "old" highway they were given for free, but now they complain they want to the province to take it back???
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  #224  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2014, 5:08 PM
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Our city's planning department doesn't really "plan": it does development control (some would call even that generous... often seems more like development approval). Basically so long as anything proposed checks all the boxes, it gets approved. There's very little regard to planning in the sense of directing growth here but not there, etc, and that's how this issue has cropped up.

For a long time we've basically been operating off the long term planning done by the old RMOC, for better or worse. That's why there's a corridor in Cumberland for a transitway, for instance, but lord knows what will happen to that east of Frank Kenny, since the RMOC's planning didn't go out that far. But we're getting to the point where we're at the limits of the old RMOC's long range planning and we haven't done anything since to update and extend that planning further out. The most obvious example of this is the ritualistic adding of land to the urban boundary every time the Official Plan is updated: we get little fragments added here and there around the perimeter with no real focus.

Had the MTO and/or the RMOC planned for then-Hwy 17 to proceed southeastwards east of Trim, the City's planning/development control would operate within that constraint, but since they didn't, it doesn't.
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  #225  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2014, 9:08 PM
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Cardinal Creek village hasn't been built yet and it's still years away (like 2020s) from being built if I remember correctly. That subdivision plan could easily be revised to account for a highway corridor running across it.
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  #226  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Cardinal Creek village hasn't been built yet and it's still years away (like 2020s) from being built if I remember correctly. That subdivision plan could easily be revised to account for a highway corridor running across it.
No, it is approved and Tamarack sales office will open shortly. They already moved in some heavy equipment and started excavation (Behind the Capital City Church)
http://www.tamarackhomes.com/cardinal/

Laporte Gardens will stay for the foreseeable future, but the Cardinal Creek village plan includes Laporte lands as well, but will only be developed once they wish to sell.
http://www.laportegardens.com/en/news/j-a-laporte-flowers-nursery-is-here-to-stay/
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  #227  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 6:17 AM
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Highway 174 EA delayed for a year
(article in french, sorry could find an article on the Citizen)

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualit...lleurs-dans-la-region_98069_section_POS1

Highway 174 EA widening between Orleans and Rockland delayed for a year. City Hall wants to coordinate the highway widening EA with the LRT EA. Article says former Liberal disappointed, Federal and provincial committed 40 million to widening project. Province committed 5 million for study with City of Ottawa and County of Prescott Russell.
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  #228  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 6:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post


Our city's planning department doesn't really "plan": it does development control (some would call even that generous... often seems more like development approval). Basically so long as anything proposed checks all the boxes, it gets approved. There's very little regard to planning in the sense of directing growth here but not there, etc, and that's how this issue has cropped up.

For a long time we've basically been operating off the long term planning done by the old RMOC, for better or worse. That's why there's a corridor in Cumberland for a transitway, for instance, but lord knows what will happen to that east of Frank Kenny, since the RMOC's planning didn't go out that far. But we're getting to the point where we're at the limits of the old RMOC's long range planning and we haven't done anything since to update and extend that planning further out. The most obvious example of this is the ritualistic adding of land to the urban boundary every time the Official Plan is updated: we get little fragments added here and there around the perimeter with no real focus.

Had the MTO and/or the RMOC planned for then-Hwy 17 to proceed southeastwards east of Trim, the City's planning/development control would operate within that constraint, but since they didn't, it doesn't.
I believe a bypass of Cumberland, and of Rockland, was planned via Baseline and Innes. I think the segment of then highway 17 was too close to the river and is less direct.
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  #229  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 7:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa superman View Post
Highway 174 EA delayed for a year
(article in french, sorry could find an article on the Citizen)

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualit...lleurs-dans-la-region_98069_section_POS1

Highway 174 EA widening between Orleans and Rockland delayed for a year. City Hall wants to coordinate the highway widening EA with the LRT EA. Article says former Liberal disappointed, Federal and provincial committed 40 million to widening project. Province committed 5 million for study with City of Ottawa and County of Prescott Russell.
Honestly, makes sense to do the LRT & 174 widening EA at the same time to save money. Both results will likely be similar so why do two separate studies?!
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  #230  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
Honestly, makes sense to do the LRT & 174 widening EA at the same time to save money. Both results will likely be similar so why do two separate studies?!
Well it does make sense to combine them west of Trim Rd, but east of Trim Rd (beyond the P&R anyway) what's the difference? The same issues remain - but now examining them will be delayed another year.

The current EA should just have been cut off at Trim Rd and a new combined 174-LRT EA initiated for the corridor west of there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa superman View Post
I believe a bypass of Cumberland, and of Rockland, was planned via Baseline and Innes. I think the segment of then highway 17 was too close to the river and is less direct.
Could be, but right now Innes through Orleans is an urban arterial, not an expressway like 174. So the time is running out on the possibility of securing a corridor to route 174 into a Cumberland-Rockland bypass due to the Cardinal Creek development.
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  #231  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2014, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
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So the time is running out on the possibility of securing a corridor to route 174 into a Cumberland-Rockland bypass due to the Cardinal Creek development.
Yup, I raised this several times with Councillor Blais and it fell on deaf ears... I wonder how contributions from Taggart/Tamarck influenced his thought process on this???
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  #232  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2014, 9:21 PM
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Most likely we are stuck with Option 2...
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  #233  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2014, 3:49 AM
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Glen Murray, Wynne's Minister of Transportation, is in Ottawa tomorrow to talk about LRT and the 174. Might be something interesting coming up.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/reevely-liberals-send-a-star-to-ottawa
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  #234  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Glen Murray, Wynne's Minister of Transportation, is in Ottawa tomorrow to talk about LRT and the 174. Might be something interesting coming up.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/reevely-liberals-send-a-star-to-ottawa
Uploading the highway back to the province would be great news and would take any wind out the sails of the PC vote east of St. Laurent Boulevard. Honestly the extension of the LRT and the highway widening needs to be done at the same time.

So wondering if the Liberals announce that since they would fund LRT and fund a portion of the OR174 widening then it makes take the highway back...?
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  #235  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2014, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Glen Murray, Wynne's Minister of Transportation, is in Ottawa tomorrow to talk about LRT and the 174. Might be something interesting coming up.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/reevely-liberals-send-a-star-to-ottawa

Reevely: Liberals send a star to Ottawa

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 6, 2014, Last Updated: June 7, 2014 6:32 AM EDT


It’s Glen Murray, the Toronto Centre MPP who has been minister of transportation. He’s a “star” by provincial politics standards, anyway, in the sense that he’s a moderately big name from elsewhere being sent in to draw attention.

We haven’t seen that in Ottawa in this campaign: other than visits from the party leaders, our local Liberals have been busy enough with their own problems that they haven’t had time to go touring other people’s ridings. Nepean-Carleton Progressive Conservative Lisa MacLeod has been in Toronto and points southwest a few times, but the Tories haven’t brought anybody here other than leader Tim Hudak. Maybe finance critic Vic Fedeli.

So Murray’s visit to Ottawa Saturday is a bit of a deal. He’s to be on the Mackenzie King Bridge on Saturday at 11, “for a media availability on LRT and highway 17/174.”

I have no special knowledge of what he’ll be doing, but I expect the point is to make the most of Hudak’s gaffey answer to a question Thursday on whether a government he leads will fund a second phase of light rail here. Despite some frantic backpedalling — to a position that amounts to “maybe” — it’s pretty clear that at best, Hudak is unenthusiastic about the prospect.

Murray can bring attention to the Liberals’ firm promise that they will pay $1 billion for a second LRT phase. Trotting out the local candidates to do it wouldn’t get much attention but Murray is difficult to ignore. And the LRT issue probably helps Liberals in three out of four ridings they might consider vulnerable: Ottawa West-Nepean, Ottawa South and Ottawa-Orléans (the fourth is Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, which includes a slice of Orléans but where the LRT is probably not a defining issue).

The issue of Highway 174 is a little more mysterious.

The Tories downloaded the 174 to the city when they were in government and the city has long petitioned to have it uploaded. Towns east of here want it widened, which the City of Ottawa has no interest in doing, let alone paying for. The Tories now promise to upload it again. The Liberals have allowed an environmental assessment of widening it but have not contemplated taking it back. They’ve also refused to allow Ottawa to put a toll gate on it at the border with Clarence-Rockland.

But now I bet the Liberals sense an opportunity they want to press in Ottawa-Orléans and Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. Murray might be announcing some new position on the 174 to try to boost Marie-France Lalonde and Grant Crack in those constituencies.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/reevely-liberals-send-a-star-to-ottawa
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  #236  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2014, 6:35 PM
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2014 Update - more consultation expected early 2015
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/transportation/update-2014
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  #237  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 7:28 PM
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Open Houses Feb 3, 4, and 5 . Combined with the East LRT extension (created a new thread for that project here http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215256)
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/transit/open-houses-february-3-4-and-5-2015
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  #238  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 7:36 PM
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  #239  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2015, 2:10 AM
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Plans to widen highway 174 anger residents

Build ring road, Cumberland residents tell city

By Laura Mueller, Orleans News
Feb 04, 2015


A number of Cumberland residents mounted vocal opposition to a plan to widen highway 174, but Coun. Stephen Blais believes it’s the only way to make the road safer and improve the section through the village.

City staff presented preliminary plans to widen the 174 to four lanes east of Trim Road at a meeting held Feb. 3 at the R.J. Kennedy Memorial Community Centre. The work isn’t scheduled to be done until sometime after 2031, but the plans are being drawn up now in conjunction with the highway’s widening to the west, which will include the extension of the Confederation light-rail line from Blair Station to Place D’Orleans.

The plans didn’t sit well with several vocal residents at the meeting, some of whom live along the road that would be widened.

Willard McWilliams, who owns a property on the 174 – formerly a provincial highway and now a city road – said he’d “fight like hell” if the city tried to expropriate part of his land to add lanes to the road.

“They’re in for a real scolding at least,” he said.

Other residents were more combative with their criticism, shouting questions at staff about why they weren’t considering a “ring road” that would loop south through less developed areas. The road-widening study is being conducted jointly with the region of Clarence-Rockland, and many Cumberland residents who attended the meeting believed the wider road would run through their village in order to ease the commute for residents from the municipality to the east.

Blais reminded the crowd that the provincial government cancelled an initiative to build a ring road in 2013.

Two other road options were considered as part of the current study, said Valerie McGirr, a consultant from AECOM who is working on the project.

* One option would run almost diagonal from Trim Road south of Wilhaven Drive to connect to Baseline Road.

* Another route would extend Innes Road to connect to Baseline Road, with two different connection options at Brian Cobourn Boulevard.

Adding another lane in each direction on the 174 would best address transportation needs, McGirr said. After analyzing the options 17 different ways, 11 of those tests concluded that widening the 174 was the best option.

While it would be the most expensive solution, expanding the 174 is the only option that would not require the removal of homes or businesses. The option south of Wilhaven would require the expropriation and removal of 11 homes and 10 non-residential buildings, while the Innes-Baseline routes would require removal of two homes and one non-residential building.

More properties – a total of 169 – would be impacted by the 174 widening option, but the impact would be less, said Angela Taylor, the city’s project manager. The plan would require the expropriation of sections of private properties along the route, but only a few metres of each property’s frontage would be needed, Taylor said.

Residents at the meeting scoffed at that, with some saying, “So the road will come right up to our houses and that’s fine?”

Taylor said it’s too early in the study to determine how many metres of each property would need to be expropriated.

A more detailed plan will be presented at another open house this spring, Taylor said. The entire study could wrap up and be brought to city council for a vote by the end of 2015, she said, but the timeline hasn’t been finalized.

People who live on the north side of the 174 would not be able to turn left out of their driveways after the road is widened; they would need to head westbound and make a U-turn at the nearest intersection or roundabout, McGirr said.

A number of roundabouts – as many as seven – could become part of the plan as the study moves forward, Blais said. A roundabout at Cameron Street is very likely, and would serve to keep up the flow of traffic while at the same time, slowing it down, Blais said. Signalized intersections will also be considered.

Widening the road would also allow for other improvements villagers have been asking for, such as measures to slow the speed, gateway signs, landscaping and possible pedestrian and cycling pathways, Blais said.

Facing opposition from residents, Blais, who has campaigned in favour of the road widening project, told the crowd, “So you want to go to heaven, but you don’t want to die?”

The federal and provincial governments have each committed $40 million towards the project, Blais said, but the total price tag will likely be closer to $400 million, so additional funding would eventually be needed.

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/5322357-plans-to-widen-highway-174-anger-residents/
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  #240  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2015, 3:06 AM
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Honestly I prefer the southern options as well - a new 4-lane corridor from Innes to Prescott-Russell Road 21, then along that corridor to Road 8. That can preserve - and even slow down - 174 along the river and through Cumberland Village.

There would be limited intersections along the corridor, with those at Frank Kenny, Dunning Road, Canaan Road, St-Jean Street and Caron Street signalized. The design speed should be 110 km/h (posted speed 90 km/h).
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