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  #841  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2014, 10:12 PM
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If a really tall structure in the likes of the MNP tower were to be constructed on the current Telus office's lot, or even at the lot next to the Main Street skytrain station, this city would have have been given an amazing shot of wonderment.
Could you seriously see an MNP Tower style building next to Main Street Skytrain? Because I have a hard time imagining it.
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  #842  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2014, 11:32 PM
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Could you seriously see an MNP Tower style building next to Main Street Skytrain? Because I have a hard time imagining it.
I'd have difficulty with that, too, I think.
However, I could see a larger, taller, even-more-dramatic version of it, one day, in the future, at Burrard and Georgia, SW corner.
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  #843  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 12:40 AM
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I'm really getting tired of the complaints. This is a fantastic building, designed and built by fantastic people, in a location that even just 5 years ago people would have never guessed could be home to one of the most fantastic office towers in the city.
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  #844  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 1:31 AM
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^ I agree. It's turned out very well and I can think about this when people nit-pick: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=haters
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  #845  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 2:32 AM
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What is MNP's involvement with this tower. Are they primary tenants or just involved in the development somehow?
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  #846  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 3:28 AM
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MNP is the anchor tenant that earned naming rights through the quantity and early date of their space commitment. Oxford Properties is the developer. Oxford is the commercial real estate development arm of the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS) pension fund. The Canadian Pension Plan Investment Board (CCPIB) is also a equity participant for MNP tower.
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  #847  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 2:48 AM
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^that Is some awesome knowledge.
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  #848  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Conga View Post
Could you seriously see an MNP Tower style building next to Main Street Skytrain? Because I have a hard time imagining it.
Yes I can, and it would look superb if one can easily view a beautifully-designed tower from different directions, and if such a fine structure can be viewed from the water. Open up your mind and use your imagination.
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  #849  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 7:09 AM
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Open up your mind and use your imagination.
Why does my mind have to be closed because I have a different opinion?
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  #850  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 9:07 PM
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I think I've said this before, but if MNP were substantially taller it would lose a lot of it's cool relationship with the Marine building. As it is, the organic, mountain like peak of the thing is still low enough to contrast with the ornate, artdeco structure of the older building. Much taller, and the two would disconnect and you would get the MNP peak in isolation, or the Marine building in front of a wall of glass. From a design perspective I still think the proportions of MNP are PERFECT for the site.

(Which is all, I think, evidence that aesthetics relies on context more than sheer height.)
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  #851  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NewWester View Post
I think I've said this before, but if MNP were substantially taller it would lose a lot of it's cool relationship with the Marine building. As it is, the organic, mountain like peak of the thing is still low enough to contrast with the ornate, artdeco structure of the older building. Much taller, and the two would disconnect and you would get the MNP peak in isolation, or the Marine building in front of a wall of glass. From a design perspective I still think the proportions of MNP are PERFECT for the site.

(Which is all, I think, evidence that aesthetics relies on context more than sheer height.)
I agree with you. There is good contrast between the two buildings. Old vs New. Earthy vs Glossy.

Any bigger and the Marine building get swallowed up.
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  #852  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NewWester View Post
I think I've said this before, but if MNP were substantially taller it would lose a lot of it's cool relationship with the Marine building. As it is, the organic, mountain like peak of the thing is still low enough to contrast with the ornate, artdeco structure of the older building. Much taller, and the two would disconnect and you would get the MNP peak in isolation, or the Marine building in front of a wall of glass. From a design perspective I still think the proportions of MNP are PERFECT for the site.

(Which is all, I think, evidence that aesthetics relies on context more than sheer height.)
I don't agree with you.

To begin with, you have created a false dichotomy between the actual building and a "substantially taller" building, as if there could be nothing in between. A slightly taller building, on the other hand, would not only maintain a "cool relationship with the Marine Building" but likely enhance it. The actual difference in height between the old building and the modern tower is actually a little too subtle and the satisfying evolution in height from the one to the other is lost too quickly as one approaches near on Hastings. Indeed, inside a half a block from the Marine Building, one will almost be unable to see the MNP Tower at all. A slightly taller tower, by contrast, would preserve the desired effect from closer vantage points without becoming overly domineering from any other vantage point.

Secondly, "a mountain-like peak" soaring in "isolation" and a marine-themed building framed by a shimmering sea of glass sound like intriguing and coherent aesthetic concepts, not things to fear.

Lastly, you profess a concern with contextual awareness but then demonstrate tunnel vision by focusing on a single relationship. The full context of the MNP Tower encompasses far more than just the Marine Building. The MNP Tower exists within a city; it shares important relationships with the Shaw Tower, the Fairmont Pacific Rim, Bentall Five, Park Place and the entire downtown skyline.

When completed, the MNP Tower will be virtually identical in height to the Shaw Tower, Fairmont Pacific Rim, Bentall Five, Park Place, Royal Centre and all the other table-top towers that surround it. This means that the most beautiful, singular office tower to be built in the city in a very long time will be lost in the crowd from day one. Instead of soaring above the herd as it deserves and creating a more dynamic urban topography, it will be reinforcing Vancouver's table-top skyline even further. This not only diminishes the aesthetic appeal of the MNP Tower itself but the skyline as a whole. A slightly taller building, however, would have the virtue of creating a more varied, aesthetically-pleasing relationship with the entire community of office towers--elevating both itself and all of downtown--while still maintaining a harmonious relationship with the Marine Building. Even members of the notoriously cautious Urban Design Panel expressed a desire for slightly greater height as a way to optimize the project's contextual existence.

So, I think a more complete contextual awareness supports a different conclusion than yours. The MNP Tower is a beautiful building, but one with slightly arrested height. The MNP Tower, the Marine Building and the entire city would have benefited aesthetically from the addition of four or five more floors.

NOTE: The above considerations are entirely aesthetic, not economic.

Last edited by Prometheus; Apr 2, 2014 at 10:53 AM.
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  #853  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
I don't agree with you.

To begin with, you have created a false choice between the actual building and a "substantially taller" building, as if there could be nothing in between. A slightly taller building, on the other hand, would not only maintain a "cool relationship with the Marine Building" but likely improve it. The current difference in height between the old and the new is actually a little too subtle and the satisfying visual step-up in height from the one to the other is lost too quickly as one approaches closer on Hastings. Indeed, inside a half a block from the Marine Building, one will almost be unable to see the MNP Tower at all. A slightly taller tower, by contrast, would preserve the desired effect from closer vantage points without appearing overly domineering from other vantage points.

Secondly, "a mountain-like peak" soaring in "isolation" and a marine-themed building framed by a shimmering sea of glass sound like intriguing and coherent aesthetic concepts, not things to fear.

Lastly, you profess a concern with contextual awareness but then demonstrate tunnel vision by focusing on a single relationship. The full context of the MNP Tower encompasses far more than just the Marine Building. The MNP Tower exists within a city; it shares important relationships with the Shaw Tower, the Fairmont Pacific Rim, Bentall Five, Park Place and the entire downtown skyline.

When completed, the MNP Tower will be virtually identical in height to the Shaw Tower, Fairmont Pacific Rim, Bentall Five, Park Place, Royal Centre and all the other table-top towers that surround it. This means that the most beautiful, singular office tower to be built in the city in a very long time will be lost in the crowd from day one. Instead of soaring above the herd as it deserves and creating a more dynamic urban topography, it will be reinforcing Vancouver's table-top skyline even further. This not only reduces the aesthetic appeal of the MNP Tower itself but the skyline as a whole. A slightly taller building, however, would have the virtue of creating a more varied, aesthetically-pleasing relationship with the greater community of towers downtown while preserving a balanced relationship with the Marine Building. Even members of the notoriously cautious Urban Design Panel expressed a desire for slightly greater height as a way to optimize the project's contextual existence.

So, I think a more complete contextual awareness supports a different conclusion than yours. The MNP Tower is a beautiful building, but one with slightly arrested height. Both the MNP Tower and its environment could benefit aesthetically from the addition of four or five more floors.

NOTE: The above considerations are entirely aesthetic, not economic.
What he said! (Especially the bolded part) This building is literally within 7 or so metres of every significant building around it. I feel bringing up an issue of the height (or lack of it) of this building is a very real an legitimate
complaint. I'm just repeating basically what I've quoted, but this building is far to nice to hide behind all the other towers the same height as it, but I guess that makes me a hater?
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  #854  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 6:19 AM
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I tend to agree that the characteristic peaked crown of the tower is wasted, since it will be hidden among the other towers of similar height.
It needn't be much taller, but should have poked above the others - otherwise another flat topped tower would have sufficed.
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  #855  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 7:40 AM
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I don't agree with you.
I kind of figured you wouldn't. I'll grant that adding another, like, five floors wouldn't ruin the effect and yeah, it would be cool to see the peak poke up above the table top, but I really don't care how MNP relates to Shaw Tower (etc). The Marine Building is one of Vancouver's true architectural treasures, and the MNP as it is, respects and enhances that, and I personally really like that. To my eyes the ratios between the two buildings are perfect. I am really excited for the view down Hastings when the two buildings are done: that particular view of the Marine building is already pretty iconic, and the MNP and Marine together will be this perfect expression of how I view Vancouver.

I concede that this is all my personal taste, but you have to concede that, INDEED, there is no objective, empirical right answer. We like what we like, and I love how this project is turning out.

So, I guess, hurray for me?
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  #856  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NewWester View Post
I think I've said this before, but if MNP were substantially taller it would lose a lot of it's cool relationship with the Marine building. As it is, the organic, mountain like peak of the thing is still low enough to contrast with the ornate, artdeco structure of the older building. Much taller, and the two would disconnect and you would get the MNP peak in isolation, or the Marine building in front of a wall of glass. From a design perspective I still think the proportions of MNP are PERFECT for the site.

(Which is all, I think, evidence that aesthetics relies on context more than sheer height.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmk View Post
I agree with you. There is good contrast between the two buildings. Old vs New. Earthy vs Glossy.

Any bigger and the Marine building get swallowed up.

I agree with both of you on the MNP Tower ... where it is ... and in particular as a complement to the Marine Building.
However, a "second MNP Tower" if you will; taller, larger, perhaps more dramatically curved, peaked, with sheer smooth glass, would, IMHO, be perfect for the SW corner of Georgia and Burrard, where the Burrard Building now is, as a culmination point and statement for downtown.
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  #857  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
I agree with both of you on the MNP Tower ... where it is ... and in particular as a complement to the Marine Building.
However, a "second MNP Tower" if you will; taller, larger, perhaps more dramatically curved, peaked, with sheer smooth glass, would, IMHO, be perfect for the SW corner of Georgia and Burrard, where the Burrard Building now is, as a culmination point and statement for downtown.
Whatever skyscraper gets built on Burrard and Georgia one day really does have to be unquestionably the greatest one in the city.

As far as I'm aware, that's the intersection with the tallest height allowed, which is good!
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  #858  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Whatever skyscraper gets built on Burrard and Georgia one day really does have to be unquestionably the greatest one in the city.

As far as I'm aware, that's the intersection with the tallest height allowed, which is good!
Darn tootin' .... ......
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  #859  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 10:17 PM
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A friend of mine who used to work closely with Brookfield told me that there is already a plan in the works for a 3rd tower of the Royal Centre, at the intersection of Burrard and Georgia. He didn't say it would be a new tallest, but that it would for sure be a new tallest office at least.
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  #860  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 10:22 PM
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its time for Vancouver to get a 200m+. it will be cool if the proposal is around 210m
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