Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Stenar]

Expo space at the new hotel is unlikely to be contiguous. If it's built at RWP with your previous plan, not the new one discussed, that skybridge is going to be one level above the expo space at the Salt Palace, not contiguous. The Old & New suggestion seems like it adds expo space on the second floor, not contiguous, because it looks to me like it has a small road still under it to access the existing loading docks.

I don't see how any convention expo space anywhere is going to be contiguous to the Salt Palace without level changes.

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

My comments regarding the Plaza block being impossible were in regards to if the county requires more contiguous expo space (large hall space) as part of the CCH.

I'll buy into your Plaza location if you can show me how expo space would connect from the Plaza block to current expo space, without putting S. Temple and trax through a "rape tunnel." As contiguous expo space it needs to be one continuous room without changing levels.

Again I was saying impossible in regards to contiguous expo space.


If a simply connection is all that is required by the county that is a bit more doable, although with some major revamping of the north entrance to the Salt Palace with either a skybridge or a tunnel.

[ajiuO]

If I were a hotel operator... Guest services would be my number one goal and obligation.... Location is a huge factor..... I would take one look at Royal wood Plaza and say "Hell no"... I would take one look at the Plaza Hotel site and say "hell yes"....

You really need to factor in the fact that the developer of the hotel will be footing most of the bill for the tower... And that they are going to want to see the biggest possible return on their investment.... The Plaza Hotel site offers a lot more potential from the standpoint of an operator in the guest services industry.... Because it offers their guests a much better experience..... So yes! The developer is probably going to have a big say in things... It's just too much work and depending on other developers to get the RWP area to where it needs to be... To even come close to being as good of a location as the Plaza Hotel block would be instantly...

I would not be at all surprised... To see something like I have suggested with the Plaza Hotel site happened... Which is needed right now ASAP.... And then have a full on salt Palace extension take place several years down the road.... Don't be surprised if something like that comes from this.... Because it actually makes sense

[Stenar]

I'm pretty sure BYU/LDS Business College doesn't need 3 city blocks. I'm pretty sure all classrooms, extracurricular, plazas and student housing can fit on one city block and maybe even have some space left over.

The area by the North Temple Frontrunner station had been discussed in the past as a site for a business park and I really think the church should get busy developing it so they city doesn't lose all business park type businesses to the suburbs.

Originally Posted by ajiuO

OK! here are 4 different Option. First of all don't take them to literally as to the exact foot print of structures.. They are just Generalizations. Second. I added some stuff on here that is future development and wishful thinking... The main focus is the CCH.

There are 3 possible Connection Points on South Temple. One directly to the West of 200 West, One Directly to the East of 200 West, and one between Symphony Hall and the Salt Palace.


Option 1:
- This Option would see the demolition of the Plaza Hotel, The Steam Factory, and Dees.
- The most likely connection point would be between The Salt Palace and Symphony Hall. I would prefer a tunnel but a sky bridge is a possibility
- The CCH would Include a restaurant and small retail along south temple.
- This Option Would offer a huge amount of convention space and some green space in the middle of the block that could also be used for out door convention purposes.
- Directly in Front of Trax
- Less then 1 block to CCC and Temple Square.

This is my Favorite option.



Option 2:
- I'm Pretty sure that relocating the steam factory should not be a huge issue.. but in case it is... This option is basically like option one but with less space and the factory left in place.



Option 3:
- This is an option for people who are afraid of ripping down hidious old buildings... It leaves the Plaza in place.. I am against this option...



Option 4:
- This option puts the CCH where the Radison currently stands.
- There would be multi level convention space
- A restaurant and Small retail along South Temple and 300 West
- Direct Connection to the Salt Palace.
- Less then 1 block to Trax
- Less then 2 blocks from CCC @ Temple Square

The is my second favorite option.




and no.. I'm not purposing putting row houses across 200 west. I would eventually like to see Maverick rebuild a much needed bigger location and have 2-3 town homes go where maverick is.. facing 200 West... the plot of land is just to small for a viewable label.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I'm pretty sure BYU/LDS Business College doesn't need 3 city blocks. I'm pretty sure all classrooms, extracurricular, plazas and student housing can fit on one city block and maybe even have some space left over.

The area by the North Temple Frontrunner station had been discussed in the past as a site for a business park and I really think the church should get busy developing it so they city doesn't lose all business park type businesses to the suburbs.

I agree.. I was just in over kill mode... I think student housing would be just fine south of West high.

I believe the original plan was to have the campus on the parking lot block.. And student housing on the plaza block... I actually think about a quarter to a third of a block would be just fine for student housing.. Or even less

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I agree.. I was just in over kill mode... I think student housing would be just fine south of West high.

I believe the original plan was to have the campus on the parking lot block.. And student housing on the plaza block... I actually think about a quarter to a third of a block would be just fine for student housing.. Or even less

Does the Church own all that land currently? I know they own a hole bunch but I was unaware of them owning the land south of West High. About 7 years ago they had talked about housing along North Temple, but that has obviously changed a bit.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

The Outdoor Retailers are not worried about the convention space right now. They have stated they are more worried about the Hotel situation. So really the State and county just want to kill two birds with one stone, Get a big hotel close/connected to the Salt Palace and now have extra space.

They've actually stated both, many times, usually in the same conversations. They want to allow there attendees to be closer and many of them in the same hotel, and they have also state that they need more space, they are once again tired of the tents being used in the S. Temple Parking lot, because it doesn't provide fair representation for all their exhibitors. They push for the CCH because they know it will include more convention space.

Originally Posted by Stenar

Expo space at the new hotel is unlikely to be contiguous. If it's built at RWP with your previous plan, not the new one discussed, that skybridge is going to be one level above the expo space at the Salt Palace, not contiguous. The Old & New suggesting seems like it adds expo space on the second floor, not contiguous, because it looks to me like it has a small road still under it to access the existing loading docks.

I don't see how any convention expo space anywhere is going to be contiguous to the Salt Palace without level changes.

It can be contiguous without a level change if they built it at the same level as the space that runs east/west, thus the tunnel on 200 W, or 200 W can be closed off at 200 S. To me it's hard to tell if Old & New's drawing includes access under the convention center, but I don't think it does because he diverted 200 W up to 100 S.

[ajiuO]

Does anybody know exactly what the steam factory is? It looks like the engineering section of the 2009 Star Trek movie through the window...

I don't see any problem with the relocating as long as it is in the main source of power or something.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

Does the Church own all that land currently? I know they own a hole bunch but I was unaware of them owning the land south of West High. About 7 years ago they had talked about housing along North Temple, but that has obviously changed a bit.

I'm not 100% but I think the state or city owns the land south of West high... But I think it could be used as part of a land trade deal... Because that land would be perfectly viable for BYU purposes... While the plaza location is a great spot for a hotel tower... And would also be a benefit to the church.... A lot of people on here seem to think the churches stubborn beyond reason... I think they would go for it though... Assuming a fair and reasonable deal is agreed upon.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

Does the Church own all that land currently? I know they own a hole bunch but I was unaware of them owning the land south of West High. About 7 years ago they had talked about housing along North Temple, but that has obviously changed a bit.

Partially, Property Reserve owns the west half of the property south of West High, it's currently all parking lot. The east half directly south of the High School is owned by the Board of Education, that parcels south of that to the corner are owned by a couple of different owners.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Does anybody know exactly what the steam factory is? It looks like the engineering section of the 2009 Star Trek movie through the window...

I don't see any problem with the relocating as long as it is in the main source of power or something.

It's the LDS Church's heating plant. It heats most if not all of their facilities, on the three "church campus" blocks.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I'm not 100% but I think the state or city owns the land south of West high... But I think it could be used as part of a land trade deal... Because that land would be perfectly viable for BYU purposes... While the plaza location is a great spot for a hotel tower... And would also be a benefit to the church.... A lot of people on here seem to think the churches stubborn beyond reason... I think they would go for it though... Assuming a fair and reasonable deal is agreed upon.

I don't necessarily think they are stubborn and I'm sure for the right arrangement they might consider selling part of their land. I do think they like the overall idea that there master plan lays out of connected with landscaping and walkways, surrounded by church related buildings that continues E/W through five blocks.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

They've actually stated both, many times, usually in the same conversations. They want to allow there attendees to be closer and many of them in the same hotel, and they have also state that they need more space, they are once again tired of the tents being used in the S. Temple Parking lot, because it doesn't provide fair representation for all their exhibitors. They push for the CCH because they know it will include more convention space.




It can be contiguous without a level change if they built it at the same level as the space that runs east/west, thus the tunnel on 200 W, or 200 W can be closed off at 200 S. To me it's hard to tell if Old & New's drawing includes access under the convention center, but I don't think it does because he diverted 200 W up to 100 S.

I don't want to speak for him... I think his plan does include tunnel access... And there's no reason that it shouldn't ...

.... There is no way I would support royal wood Plaza without through access... I do like that the way he has the streets positioned creates an illusion that hides the isolation.... Even his plan doesn't create a whole ton of extra space that's continuous with what already exist....

If it was just the salt Palace extension and not a convention center hotel that we were talking about... I might not be opposed to extending the tunnel... But closing it.... Absolutely not!

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

It's the LDS Church's heating plant. It heats most if not all of their facilities, on the three "church campus" blocks.

That might be thought to relocate then... It doesn't take up a ton of space though.. So it's not a huge deal.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I don't necessarily think they are stubborn and I'm sure for the right arrangement they might consider selling part of their land. I do think they like the overall idea that there master plan lays out of connected with landscaping and walkways, surrounded by church related buildings that continues E/W through five blocks.

Hehe.. That actually makes their plan sound a bit ridiculous when you put it like that.... I don't think a convention center hotel on the Plaza Hotel block would put too much of a crinkling in their plan... It could still be done n a way that offers throughput and walkability... Plus it would offer their visitors a nice place to stay... Close to the conference center.

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

They've actually stated both, many times, usually in the same conversations. They want to allow there attendees to be closer and many of them in the same hotel, and they have also state that they need more space, they are once again tired of the tents being used in the S. Temple Parking lot, because it doesn't provide fair representation for all their exhibitors. They push for the CCH because they know it will include more convention space.

I was a little vague ... I want to correct myself as well. I worked on this story and thought they had said convention space can be worked around but it's hotel space that matters.

Anyways this sums up a lot of what needs to happen with the convention

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21535198

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

I was a little vague ... I want to correct myself as well. I worked on this story and thought they had said convention space can be worked around but it's hotel space that matters.

Anyways this sums up a lot of what needs to happen with the convention

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21535198

That's interesting... It sounds like the ODR.. Wants to start talking solutions within the next 30 days.... And Salt Lake is like "mehh. We will start talking in October"... Humm

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I don't want to speak for him... I think his plan does include tunnel access... And there's no reason that it shouldn't ...

.... There is no way I would support royal wood Plaza without through access... I do like that the way he has the streets positioned creates an illusion that hides the isolation.... Even his plan doesn't create a whole ton of extra space that's continuous with what already exist....

If it was just the salt Palace extension and not a convention center hotel that we were talking about... I might not be opposed to extending the tunnel... But closing it.... Absolutely not!

I should clarify, I didn't mean closing the entire section of 200W, just closing it at 200 S. That is how I interpreted it in Old & New's rendering, so it still allows for access from 100 S and from S. Temple.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I should clarify, I didn't mean closing the entire section of 200W, just closing it at 200 S. That is how I interpreted it in Old & New's rendering, so it still allows for access from 100 S and from S. Temple.

Well kind of... It kind of merges second west and first south in to one continuous street... But then peace street turns off of the main street and goes under the tunnel... Basically adds a turn for going from second West to second West... But still only has one effective turn going from first south to second west... Or no turn if you're going south

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

That's interesting... It sounds like the ODR.. Wants to start talking solutions within the next 30 days.... And Salt Lake is like "mehh. We will start talking in October"... Humm

Well that was 2012 and the legislature in 2013 turned down a convention hotel. They signed a 2016 extension on January 22 before they turned down the legislation in 2013. So I am wondering how they feel about this now.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum

Well that was 2012 and the legislature in 2013 turned down a convention hotel. They signed a 2016 extension on January 22 before they turned down the legislation in 2013. So I am wondering how they feel about this now.

I guess it helps to look at the date