Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[idunno]

Leftcoaster, I really like that map. I'd never really considered a crosstown line like the purple one, but it's definitely a great idea. So much connectivity in the region with that one in! It makes total sense to have Metrotown/Brentwood/Oakridge as the connection stations on that line.

Another station between Lincoln and Douglas College in Coquitlam though? Seems a bit crazy. Or is the 'Coquitlam' station the existing Douglas College station on there?

[officedweller]

Transit riders can now text Transit Police at 87-77-77.
— image credit: @ChiefNeilDubord on Twitter

Transit Police now textable, fielding influx of tips

by Jeff Nagel - Surrey North Delta Leader

posted Mar 18, 2014 at 4:00 PM

SkyTrain riders worried about their security can now send text messages to alert Transit Police.

Dispatchers now receive and respond to texts sent to them at 87-77-77.

The move, which took effect in December, is in addition to other methods of alerting security, such as pressing the yellow strip above windows on SkyTrain to trigger a silent alarm.

"It's a more discreet way to get help because people are texting all the time," said Transit Police spokesperson Anne Drennan.

She said police have already received many "excellent texts" with good tips, particularly ones related to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 offences.

Drennan said one male was recently apprehended on SkyTrain after a witness texted Transit Police that he was inappropriately touching women.

"It happens on the buses as well and there aren't yellow strips on the buses," Drennan added.

Transit riders welcomed the change on Twitter, saying they've often wished they could text to seek police help.

http://www.surreyleader.com/news/250885421.html

[xd_1771]

There is a very interesting tidbit about Canada Line theoretical single track capacity on the bottom of this new Voony's blog article
http://voony.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/subway-capacity-some-remarks/

[Gordon]

Could the Canad Line be operated at the frequencies as the combined Expo \Millennium line from Waterfront to Columbia?

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

There is a very interesting tidbit about Canada Line theoretical single track capacity on the bottom of this new Voony's blog article
http://voony.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/subway-capacity-some-remarks/

It is an interesting article, but at present it is not possible to operate an auto train in the tail track beyond RBS or YAS. The tail track is part of the safe stopping distance required should a train overrun it's stopping point, so they can have anything parked in their.

There is a lot of flexibility in the existing system but translink would need to renegotiate the contract in order to enable any short turning of trains.

Long term before any new trains are built or platforms extended I would think short turn loops in the busy sections would help:
Say morning rush hour, 2 trains loop only to marine and back to WFS
PM, extra trains to RBS in a 2-1 ratio we have seen post-fireworks evenings

Lots of other possibilities exist if the existing agreement can be tweaked or adjusted.

Would regular mid day riders be upset if the mid day service went to say 12-14 trains so that 18+ could operate during peak times?

[rsxstock]

End of the line for False Creek streetcar

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) – It looks like the Downtown Historic Railway won’t be leaving the station in the near future, if ever.

The century-old streetcars that once ran along the south shore of False Creek have been deemed unsafe.

According to a review of the service done by staff with the City of Vancouver which had leased the cars, they are simply too old and would cost too much to fix.

“The business case for them is not great because they had very low ridership,” admits Councillor Geoff Meggs.

“So neither Granville Island or Tourism Vancouver were factoring them in very much as part of the city’s economy.”

That means the two cars will go back to their respective owners, the local volunteer Transit Museum Society (TRAMS), and a private individual in Oregon.

The locally-owned car will be allowed to remain as a static display.

“The view is we should really be focusing on the Broadway Corridor,” adds Meggs.

“We have tens of thousands of trips per day and people being passed up and overcrowding and [we should] try to get new investment there.”

The historic trains, which had been running off and on this line since 1998, have sat idle since 2012.

http://www.news1130.com/2014/03/23/end-of-the-line-for-false-creek-streetcar/

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

It is an interesting article, but at present it is not possible to operate an auto train in the tail track beyond RBS or YAS. The tail track is part of the safe stopping distance required should a train overrun it's stopping point, so they can have anything parked in their.

Arguably, manned trains should have this safety buffer as well. Chicago's accident at O'Hare Airport this morning:


Source: ABC News

[Zassk]

It's like a scene out of a Keanu Reeves or Bruce Willis movie.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It's like a scene out of a Keanu Reeves or Bruce Willis movie.

I know, right. I'm just looking at that and thinking "Speed"

[Genauso]

Vancouver streetcar map circa 1940, http://www.tundria.com/trams/CAN/Vancouver-1940.shtml



Interesting that the streetcar network in 1940 looks much more like a natural river network, than the political vote based network of skytrain that better serves the region's fringes than its core today.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Genauso

Interesting that the streetcar network in 1940 looks much more like a natural river network, than the political vote based network of skytrain that better serves the region's fringes than its core today.

Not really, today's Skytrain network matches the interurban routes almost exactly and serves the downtown core. The current bus routes operating on former streetcar lines have frequencies better than most in "the region's fringes."

[Millennium2002]

Actually, I'm moving this post to the proper thread... (Moderators can delete this)

[GlassCity]

I don't know, I feel like the heritage street car is cliché and overdone.

[Zassk]

They were just buses on rails... are they really that big of a heritage? My 70 year old mother rode one of them to kindergarten (alone!) every day, and one such streetcar is housed in a permanent display in Steveston now, but I'm not sure I see what big heritage value there would be in having actual functional rolling stock.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Zassk

They were just buses on rails... are they really that big of a heritage? My 70 year old mother rode one of them to kindergarten (alone!) every day, and one such streetcar is housed in a permanent display in Steveston now, but I'm not sure I see what big heritage value there would be in having actual functional rolling stock.

Lots of people miss the fact that they are really just buses on rails. They were used before cars were invented and then were replaced by buses. They serve the exact same purpose.

As far as heritage goes, you're right. Literally every city had a street car system. They're really not that impressive.

[itinerant]

Streetcars and buses move people through the city, but they do it in quite different ways. While buses have the flexibility of being able to go anywhere there is a road, the streetcars have fixed routes, and often preferred routing. The advantage to streetcars is that very difference. They are predictable, and people like transportation to be predictable (schedule and speed), affordable, and efficient.

Heritage cars may be a curiosity, but streetcars in general are desirable for many of the same reasons that any other form of 'rail' transit is.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by itinerant

Streetcars and buses move people through the city, but they do it in quite different ways. While buses have the flexibility of being able to go anywhere there is a road, the streetcars have fixed routes, and often preferred routing. The advantage to streetcars is that very difference. They are predictable, and people like transportation to be predictable (schedule and speed), affordable, and efficient.

Heritage cars may be a curiosity, but streetcars in general are desirable for many of the same reasons that any other form of 'rail' transit is.

I just don't know how important that is. Just because people are more confident in its route doesn't mean that we should spend the extra money on it. Also, I don't see how having rails keeps them from being stuck in traffic jams and at lights just like a bus would, so I don't think its schedule and speed would be any better.

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by madog222

Not really, today's Skytrain network matches the interurban routes almost exactly and serves the downtown core. The current bus routes operating on former streetcar lines have frequencies better than most in "the region's fringes."

I'm under the impression that the urban streetcars operated more frequently than the interurban lines which were more like the West Coast Express, or GO Transit. At most like the coach style commuting buses that run on the highway now.

Although I don't know about speed which would depend on dwell time or road traffic, I consider frequency to be the most valuable for lowering expected travel time and increasing trip volumes.

The most valuable part of the network should produce most of the revenue, and the investment in the network should be denser in those areas. If that isn't possible, we should not have any transit network and instead should have taxis or minicabs running point to point trips, with vouchers given to those who get a subsidy for the current system.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Genauso

I'm under the impression that the urban streetcars operated more frequently than the interurban lines which were more like the West Coast Express, or GO Transit. At most like the coach style commuting buses that run on the highway now.

While some lines runs more frequently, but the maximum frequency for the least-used line (like Oak) is pretty much the same as interurban - 15min peak, 20min off-peak/weekend, up to hourly late night. Many of the streetcar routes are actually single-tracked, so frequency is limited.

Originally Posted by itinerant

Streetcars and buses move people through the city, but they do it in quite different ways. While buses have the flexibility of being able to go anywhere there is a road, the streetcars have fixed routes, and often preferred routing. The advantage to streetcars is that very difference. They are predictable, and people like transportation to be predictable (schedule and speed), affordable, and efficient.

Predictable - If the streetcar does not have complete ROW, how would it be more predictable than buses? It suffer the same traffic delay and bunching problem as a bus, but if anything happens on the track, it would actually be less predictable as there will most likely be service interruption.

affordable, and efficient - Modern streetcar have at least three times as much capacity but cost at least twice as much to run. It is not possible to have one-to-one replacement unless TransLink have a lot of money to burn. While it makes sense for the more popular routes, what about the less-used ones? For instance, Oak bus only runs every 15min outside of peak hour - should we double the cost of service to run streetcar every 15min, or run the line every 30min instead to break-even? If they were to break-even, beside Broadway, only Main, Robson/Davie, Fraser, and Victoria would support a 15min off-peak service based on the current schedule. On Sunday, ALL roues within Vancouver beside Broadway would support service no better than every 20-30min. I just don't see the efficiency from such operation.

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

It is an interesting article, but at present it is not possible to operate an auto train in the tail track beyond RBS or YAS. The tail track is part of the safe stopping distance required should a train overrun it's stopping point, so they can have anything parked in their.

Thanks for your kind word.
the storage of a train South of Brighouse is assumed possible from a Translink press release


You are right about the buffer stop: I assume the current one can be replaced by a more compact one:



The buffer stop below is designed for a High speed train (TGV) station termini (St Malo, France)

source: http://p2.storage.canalblog.com/26/98/1056623/84798612_o.jpg
The length doesn't look much greater than 5m.

The Brighouse tail track is 44meter long and the Brighouse platform is 50 meters long (so in fact you have ~54 meter, to store a train + a buffer stop, leaving 40 meter of platform length available).

Otherwise, short turning of train is still possible (on both branches, Brighouse and Yvr)