Municipal Politics

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Cage

IF Nenshi runs for the leadership of AB PC Party, he is very likely to lose (come in second place) and would do the City of Calgary a lot of harm.

The moment he announces or even publicly thinks about running, the City Charter will be tabled until 2015. Any other Provincial and City projects will also get put on hold. Finally and most damaging, Nenshi would have to take a leave of absence from Mayor's office, during this time the civic agenda would get no where.

I am pretty sure City Charters can't proceed while a leadership race is going on. If they do, they will likely be pretty minimalist, ready to have later parts grafted on.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think Govt. waste is all perception though. When they cycle through Healthcare Execs constantly while paying out massive severance packages and mismanaging all manner of things, it makes for good news. And it is waste that should be managed much better. I understand a lot of programs take lots of money to run, and I have no problem with that. It just seams this government makes bad decision after bad decision and we have to question why they keep doing it.

If Alberta Health Services was a private health organization, the head would be fairly paid at least $6 million a year. Probably more like $8 or 9 million.

Hard to run an organization when everyone alleges waste, but decries any action to attempt to curtail expenses in a real way.

Alberta already spends the lowest % of health care funding on health care administration across the country.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The biggest problem is you can't raise that much revenue without raising taxes for the broad middle. And the broad middle all assume they are below the mean.

As for expenses, I know there is a broad perception of a problem - but do we want our politicians to be monastic monks? Traveling at last minute costs money, and you either fly business or bring security. I think if the public knew about the nature and number of threats there might be a different attitude.

I found the whole travel thing pretty petty and stupid. Travelling with people costs money, and so does flying last minute. I mean, I was annoyed. But definitely not "you should lose your job" annoyed.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

If Alberta Health Services was a private health organization, the head would be fairly paid at least $6 million a year. Probably more like $8 or 9 million.

Hard to run an organization when everyone alleges waste, but decries any action to attempt to curtail expenses in a real way.

Alberta already spends the lowest % of health care funding on health care administration across the country.

Which is a terrible way to measure outcomes.


Not picking on government, but why is any executive paid $8-$9 million a year??

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

As for expenses, I know there is a broad perception of a problem - but do we want our politicians to be monastic monks? Traveling at last minute costs money, and you either fly business or bring security. I think if the public knew about the nature and number of threats there might be a different attitude.

I have travelled extensively for business for the past 12 years, 5 of which I was travelling over 50k miles per year. I also have say on numerous corporate travel policies over the past 8 years in financial auditor and consultant capacity.

The recent travel issues that were brought out by Premier office were far different from the usual "living high" elitist standard.

For starters there is the trip to South Africa. Out of the gate it takes a special individual who wants to fly a King Air Turbo prop for 5 hours when a comparable timed Business Class seat is awaiting at the other end of the terminal. Reason provided for taking the private air charter was due to no seats available on commercial airlines. However AC responded that there were seats available and the Premier could have used her Super Elite status to get onto the flight. Because the stated reasons for flying private over commercial have been refuted, it leaves open the possibility the Premier preferred to travel private over commercial, is this preference that pushed the elitist agenda onto the Premier.

Then there is the cost to fly home. The stated reason to fly home commercial first class was due to uncertainty over PM return flight time and the requirement to be back for the cabinet swearing in ceremony. I put forth a different scenario. During the infamous B roll footage of the Premier boarding Harper Force 1 in Ottawa, I noticed that she boarded from the rear where as Harper and the ex PMs boarded from the front of the aircraft. Given the other dignitaries on the flight and the lack of media on the flight, its entirely possible the Premier was seated in an economy seat that is normally taken up by the travelling staff and/or media. It is my opinion that faced with the possibility of flying economy seat on the way home, the Premier instead chose to expense the cost of the first class seat home. Again this points to an elitist attitude that costs taxpayers a lot of money.

There are other examples like taking Private Air from PSP to attend the Klein memorial. The stated reason again was either one of windshear incident in PSP or no seats were available. Data from the FAA had the windshear problem 3 days before the Premier flew home and how does PSP get filled up across all the airlines, there are one stop connections available on UA, AC, AA, DL, WS, AS.

Its clear from the above the Premier preferred to fly private charter airplane above commercial, she should have come clean from the beginning and not hid behind the mother role, or lack of seats, or weather related issues.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by fusili

Not picking on government, but why is any executive paid $8-$9 million a year??

Because at the top, they are...

A company or organization like government can decide to "not" pay top execs the huge salaries that private enterprise does, but when they do that they simply ensure that they do not get the absolute best candidates to fill those jobs as the best will stay in private enterprise where they can make ten times as much money per a year.

It has long been my belief that when it comes to the extremely critical positions in government or organizations where huge amounts of government financing are managed you want the best people you can get in those roles. People who have the chance to cost the people of Alberta hundreds of millions of dollars in wasted spending, mismanaged healthcare that cost peoples lives, mismanaged transportation or urban development that can set a city back decades and lead to huge spending on "fixing" avoidable issues in the future, those people should get paid comparable amounts to those in private industry because only that way can you attract the best.

We have lost great leaders who have left politics to make more money, we have missed out on great leaders who simply saw the "costs" of going into politics as too great due to the gigantic pay cut they would incur. That should simply not take place when you are looking at the most important jobs out there. POTUS, should they make huge money? You bet. If they did maybe we would see some vastly better candidates and far more intelligent people getting into politics.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Cage

I have travelled extensively for business for the past 12 years, 5 of which I was travelling over 50k miles per year. I also have say on numerous corporate travel policies over the past 8 years in financial auditor and consultant capacity.

The recent travel issues that were brought out by Premier office were far different from the usual "living high" elitist standard.

For starters there is the trip to South Africa. Out of the gate it takes a special individual who wants to fly a King Air Turbo prop for 5 hours when a comparable timed Business Class seat is awaiting at the other end of the terminal. Reason provided for taking the private air charter was due to no seats available on commercial airlines. However AC responded that there were seats available and the Premier could have used her Super Elite status to get onto the flight. Because the stated reasons for flying private over commercial have been refuted, it leaves open the possibility the Premier preferred to travel private over commercial, is this preference that pushed the elitist agenda onto the Premier.

Then there is the cost to fly home. The stated reason to fly home commercial first class was due to uncertainty over PM return flight time and the requirement to be back for the cabinet swearing in ceremony. I put forth a different scenario. During the infamous B roll footage of the Premier boarding Harper Force 1 in Ottawa, I noticed that she boarded from the rear where as Harper and the ex PMs boarded from the front of the aircraft. Given the other dignitaries on the flight and the lack of media on the flight, its entirely possible the Premier was seated in an economy seat that is normally taken up by the travelling staff and/or media. It is my opinion that faced with the possibility of flying economy seat on the way home, the Premier instead chose to expense the cost of the first class seat home. Again this points to an elitist attitude that costs taxpayers a lot of money.

There are other examples like taking Private Air from PSP to attend the Klein memorial. The stated reason again was either one of windshear incident in PSP or no seats were available. Data from the FAA had the windshear problem 3 days before the Premier flew home and how does PSP get filled up across all the airlines, there are one stop connections available on UA, AC, AA, DL, WS, AS.

Its clear from the above the Premier preferred to fly private charter airplane above commercial, she should have come clean from the beginning and not hid behind the mother role, or lack of seats, or weather related issues.

Same goes for the Chicago trip, 16k for a 3 day trip is insane for even a Premier at 8k they may have had justification. That flight can be had for 2300 for two people round trip from YEG, not the nearly 10k they spent. The concerns follows that if the Premier is spending this way, is the rest of the government too?

[MalcolmTucker]

4 day, 3 night. With a reception.

Expenditures by Participants
--modify description--
Amount
Travel (airfare, airport service fees, ground transportation costs, including taxis, car rentals, parking, trains, buses)
$9,748.97
Accommodation (room charges and related taxes only)
$2,289.22
Meals (includes restaurant bills and tips, meals on hotel bills, per diem meal claims, share of group meals or working sessions)
$290.37
Incidental & Miscellaneous (includes cell phone rental and usage charges, conference/registration fees, fax and internet charges, passport and visa fees, medical and inoculation fees, laundry and dry cleaning, baggage handling, meeting rooms, and other sundry expenditures)
$43.95 Total $12,372.51
General Mission Expenditures
--modify description--
Amount
Receptions and Hosting (receptions, luncheons, dinners, and events that are hosted by the Government of Alberta (includes reception related costs for room rental, food, beverages, catering staff, service charges, entertainment, flowers))
$3,981.20
Incidental & Miscellaneous (includes translator and interpreter fees, publications, shipping charges, gifts)
$0.00
Total $3,981.20 Total Costs $16,353.71

Itinerary for Premier Redford*

Friday, December 14
Travel to Toronto, Ontario.
Co-chair the Council of the Federation - Fiscal Arrangements Working Group meeting.
Depart for Chicago, Illinois.
Saturday, December 15
Private time.
Sunday, December 16
Dinner with the Consulate General of Canada in Chicago, Gitane De Silva and local business leaders, including the following companies:

• Aux Sable
• British Petroleum
• CITGO Petroleum Corporation
• Enbridge

Monday, December 17
Meeting and remarks with the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.
Meetings with:

• organized labour groups; and,
• the Deputy Mayor of Chicago, Steve Koch.

Depart for Alberta.

Came in under budget:

The total estimated cost of the mission for the Premier and one staff member, including airfare, transportation and meals is $18,205.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Tropics

Because at the top, they are...

A company or organization like government can decide to "not" pay top execs the huge salaries that private enterprise does, but when they do that they simply ensure that they do not get the absolute best candidates to fill those jobs as the best will stay in private enterprise where they can make ten times as much money per a year.

It has long been my belief that when it comes to the extremely critical positions in government or organizations where huge amounts of government financing are managed you want the best people you can get in those roles. People who have the chance to cost the people of Alberta hundreds of millions of dollars in wasted spending, mismanaged healthcare that cost peoples lives, mismanaged transportation or urban development that can set a city back decades and lead to huge spending on "fixing" avoidable issues in the future, those people should get paid comparable amounts to those in private industry because only that way can you attract the best.

We have lost great leaders who have left politics to make more money, we have missed out on great leaders who simply saw the "costs" of going into politics as too great due to the gigantic pay cut they would incur. That should simply not take place when you are looking at the most important jobs out there. POTUS, should they make huge money? You bet. If they did maybe we would see some vastly better candidates and far more intelligent people getting into politics.

Like the guys at Bear Stearns or Soloman Bros who lost billions and billions, yet were paid tens of millions? I am still not convinced that a CEO is really worth tens or hundreds of millions a year.

Sorry for the tangent.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

4 day, 3 night. With a reception.




Came in under budget:

It's called getting value for money, being under budget doesn't count as value.

I get the reception costs, what I don't get is nearly 10k in transportation costs. If the former Premier (or any future one) isn't willing to sit with the normal people and insists on business class maybe they aren't the right person for the job to start with. In Alberta we expect our politicians to act like us not a celebrity. We fly economy and stay in a reasonably priced hotel. Those same flights go from 6500 to 1500 for two people moving from business class to economy.

In the end the costs may be justified through various arguments, but the party still has an optics problem that doesn't disappear with Alison's resignation.

[kw5150]

Why did I hear 45,000? Did the Sun newspaper and Wild Rose make it all up?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

It's called getting value for money, being under budget doesn't count as value.

I get the reception costs, what I don't get is nearly 10k in transportation costs. If the former Premier (or any future one) isn't willing to sit with the normal people and insists on business class maybe they aren't the right person for the job to start with. In Alberta we expect our politicians to act like us not a celebrity. We fly economy and stay in a reasonably priced hotel. Those same flights go from 6500 to 1500 for two people moving from business class to economy.

In the end the costs may be justified through various arguments, but the party still has an optics problem that doesn't disappear with Alison's resignation.

As per security policy, the Premier either flies business class or brings a security detail along to ride with him or her.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Why did I hear 45,000? Did the Sun newspaper and Wild Rose make it all up?

45k was for the South Africa return

16k was for Chicago

Separate trips, similar underlying issue

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

As per security policy, the Premier either flies business class or brings a security detail along to ride with him or her.

So the security in the airport isn't good enough? What do they do for security at the other end if the detail doesn't travel with?

Is the government going to start releasing the number of threats that the Premier receives? At this point there is an absolute vacuum of information regarding why they need so much security, are the number of threats going up or down? Have the severity of the threats increased? What patterns exist in the threats? Really any information would be better than the vapour trail of expenses that exists right now. Most Albertan's get that the Premier needs security and that there is some information that can't be released.

As an aside I don't know that I've ever heard a news story reporting that someone who threatened the Premier was arrested and charged.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

So the security in the airport isn't good enough? What do they do for security at the other end if the detail doesn't travel with?

Is the government going to start releasing the number of threats that the Premier receives? At this point there is an absolute vacuum of information regarding why they need so much security, are the number of threats going up or down? Have the severity of the threats increased? What patterns exist in the threats? Really any information would be better than the vapour trail of expenses that exists right now. Most Albertan's get that the Premier needs security and that there is some information that can't be released.

As an aside I don't know that I've ever heard a news story reporting that someone who threatened the Premier was arrested and charged.

The sherriffs increased protection within the province from unarmoured Fords to armoured SUVs. I doubt that would be done on a whim.

IIRC outside of the province, executive protection for other provincial leaders provide security (so in Ontario, Ontario Provincial Police). In other countries, it would be local or national police. So security would accompany/meet within the airports, when flying without additional security.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by fusili

Like the guys at Bear Stearns or Soloman Bros who lost billions and billions, yet were paid tens of millions? I am still not convinced that a CEO is really worth tens or hundreds of millions a year.

Sorry for the tangent.

Some certainly are, and some certainly are not. I work for a company that just brought a new CEO in and the choice of the person boggles my mind, yet again. The company is not doing well, and I think a large part of the reason is the people they are putting into the top positions, but that is their choice to lose their money how they see fit.

At least in politics we get to chose from the various candidates. I would simply like the candidates to be better because going to the polls and trying to choose the candidate least likely to suck should not be business as usual and that is usually how I end up feeling with the stupid little card sitting in front of me.

Look at the POTUS even and the last 4 elections and the final candidates to choose from. If that is the best the USA has to offer to take the most important job in the world we have a serious problem with the way we are doing things.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

4 day, 3 night. With a reception.




Came in under budget:

The item that jumps out there is the airfare. You have to be aware of the political hot buttons, and I think she just lost focus for a while. Albertans are still extremely sensitive to the idea that the PCs after 40 years in power might be misusing their power and taking advantage of the taxpayer. In the last election Redford was ahead of Smith until the “do nothing committee” thing broke, and then the PCs popularity crashed. WR was always just a protest party, however, and when some of their people started saying crazy things the pendulum quickly swung the other way again. Albertans are still hyper-sensitive to anything that looks like the PCs misusing funds, and all PCs should be very aware of that. Redford might have lost some productive work time by flying Economy Class to Chicago instead of First Class, but the optics were more important any lost productivity. It’s really the fact that she wasn’t aware of this that’s the most surprising.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by fusili

Like the guys at Bear Stearns or Soloman Bros who lost billions and billions, yet were paid tens of millions? I am still not convinced that a CEO is really worth tens or hundreds of millions a year.

Sorry for the tangent.

You bring up the good point that hiring the best people costs a lot of money, but companies seem to regularly hire people to those positions for a lot of money who simply have the experience of being in that position, but who have done badly at it in the past. Or without anything in the contract to match compensation with not driving the company into the ground.

[5seconds]

CTV is reporting that Jon Lord died of a heart attack last night.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jo...-alderman-dies-of-heart-attack-1.2586980

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

CTV is reporting that Jon Lord died of a heart attack last night.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jo...-alderman-dies-of-heart-attack-1.2586980

Condolences to his friends and family. He was a really good-natured guy and had a good sense of humour. 57 is a really young age to pass away.