Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Old&New

Although this question was directed to Future Mayor, I'll take a stab at it.



Additionally, the empty lots near the convention center's east entrance aren't large enough for a convention hotel (which, again, requires it's own convention space).

I think there's plenty of space to to build on the Arrow Press and DV8 and the Zions Bank parking. That's a big property its almost half a SLC block. It's terrible to put conventioneers on 200 West with great street engagement to the loading docks of the Salt Palace and great walkable streets like 200 South with its empty home theater store, EZ Storage and multiple surface parking lots. I guess it will be better once the 200 S. streetcar is built but that Arrow Press DV8 Zions Bank parking property annoy the hell out of me. Normally I'd be against pedestrian bridges, but in the case of the CCH being built on on RWP I think it should be a requirement.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by brankrom

I think there's plenty of space to to build on the Arrow Press and DV8 and the Zions Bank parking. That's a big property its almost half a SLC block. It's terrible to put conventioneers on 200 West with great street engagement to the loading docks of the Salt Palace and great walkable streets like 200 South with its empty home theater store, EZ Storage and multiple surface parking lots. I guess it will be better once the 200 S. streetcar is built but that Arrow Press DV8 Zions Bank parking property annoy the hell out of me. Normally I'd be against pedestrian bridges, but in the case of the CCH being built on on RWP I think it should be a requirement.

I actually would prefer that if its going to have a sky bridge...especially a wide one, that it not be built on any street other than 200 w. yeah. It is not ideal for Japan Town, but I don't like sky bridges and if it can be kept off streets that are pedestrian oriented the better. There is nothing that anybodu wants to see on 200 w.

[Future Mayor]

@ DenverInfill. Old & New pretty much summed it up. There has been talk that our convention center needs more large hall expo space and the scenario on the block to the west is the only way that adding contiguous expo space would be possible.

Even if it's not the addition of contiguous large hall expo space, many CCH's across the country have a skybridge, allowing for attendees staying in the CCH easy access to the convention center, while many, like Denver's do not have a direct connection via bridge/tunnel. As Old & New pointed out, the CCH will include County operated convention space and that might play a part into the county wanting a direct connection. If the county doesn't require a direct connection I would prefer to have no skybridge or tunnel, because you are right, it does reduce the amount of pedestrian traffic at the street level.


One of the many reasons I prefer the RWP location (the block west for non locals) for the CCH is that it addresses the fact that 200 W is basically the back door to the Salt Palace. By placing the hotel on that location, with the hotel fronting 200 S, it basically adds another front to the Salt Palace and places all the dock activity in the middle, out of site of most people. I could be block those dock type activities, just as the entrance and expo halls fronting S. Temple block dock activity from that street. The RWP location could basically create a U shaped center, and reduce the visibility of back of house operations. I agree with the sentiment that the RWP location helps to connect Main St to the Gateway, because it puts a new front and adds vitality and pedestrian traffic to a mostly pedestrian free block.

[Makid]

If there is a skybridge, I would like it to be wide enough to accommodate additional meeting space or exhibit space. Similar to the expansion over 2nd West along South Temple.

The advantage with the Japan Town parking lot is that exhibit and meeting space could both be expanded and 1st South may not need to be adjusted due to the elevation change. Further Eastward expansion though would require sinking 1st South as well as 2nd West.

At that point, the CC would encompass 4 blocks with 1st South and 2nd West meeting below grade for through traffic.

In that event, an underground staging area could be created, a couple of large elevators could be added to help move the items between the staging area and the exhibit hall. They could be centrally located and combined with a central rest room/concession area. This would also allow 1st South and 2nd West to remain open to traffic during larger conventions while also removing a back side to the center.

[utenation]

Do we have the Gov's signature on the CCH Bill?

[delts145]

I agree with most of you. If there is going to be a substantial CCH Skybridge, I don't have a problem with it over 200 W., between 2nd and So. Temple. Anywhere else like W. Temple, would make me very upset.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

The RWP location could basically create a U shaped center, and reduce the visibility of back of house operations. I agree with the sentiment that the RWP location helps to connect Main St to the Gateway, because it puts a new front and adds vitality and pedestrian traffic to a mostly pedestrian free block.

The only upside I can see to RWP is the eventual streetcar. The Salt Palace is basically a mega block (as if SLCs block weren't big enough). There is nothing of value on the south side of 200 S. and could be decades before there is. Also there's the retirement tower and the Asian churches that will be blocked in and with the north side of 200 South being more convention space that whole side of the block will be just as desolate and dead as the north and west sides of the Salt Palace are now. I have no love for RWP or the tower or the churches but there will be essentially a mile of street frontage from West Temple to 300 West and South Temple to 200 South that is nothing but insular convention space with nothing to offer the street. Hopefully there will be some street level interest of the CCH, but if the design of what has been built for the Salt Palace so far is any indication it should be pretty sterile as far as street engagement and access.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I still want to see it on south temple.. My gut instinct tells me that it will probably be along west temple though... Probably on the SE corner of w. Temple and first... I would not be surprised to see anything on the block along 100 south or west temple go....

When Marriott was looking to build a 1,000 room hotel a decade ago, the Trib had an illustration of a hotel on that corner, but Marriott might have only wanted that corner to be near their current hotel. ??

[Stenar]

Having attended a lot of conventions and worked with meeting planners to bring conventions to SLC, it all works much better if there is a direct connection between the hotel and the convention space. Cities without direct connection get marked down in the assessments of where to place a convention.

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Hi. I'm enjoying reading about your CC/HQ Hotel discussion. Quick question: The idea of a ped bridge or tunnel over/under a street is often counter-productive to encouraging pedestrian vitality along the street. Are your options--Future Mayor and others--that show a bridge/tunnel connecting the two due to the large block size (and avoiding mid-block crossings which traffic engineers hate) or is it due to something else? Couldn't the new hotel be situated across from a new or existing CC entry and, with the new hotel having an active ground-floor entry, create a nice busy spot at the street level to add to downtown's overall vibrancy?

I ask because in Denver, our 1,100-room Hyatt CC HQ hotel is directly across the street from the CC, but there was never any plans (to my knowledge) of connecting them with a bridge/tunnel. Instead, there's just a very busy ped crosswalk on our 14th Street connecting the two, which adds to the overall street vibe in our downtown.

What are your thoughts about this?

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Having attended a lot of conventions and worked with meeting planners to bring conventions to SLC, it all works much better if there is a direct connection between the hotel and the convention space. Cities without direct connection get marked down in the assessments of where to place a convention.

With that, what is the possibility that Radisson knocks down their current hotel next to the CC and build a brand new hotel on the exact location? Could a new Radisson be the potential CCH? I remember reading a few years ago that Radisson was going to do a complete makeover and remodel to their entire hotel, but that has yet to happen.

Is it possible they decided not to remodel knowing eventually a CCH would be needed in SLC and that they had the prime location that Stenar is talking about where it is built/connected directly to the CC???

[SLC Projects]

Fidelity Investments needs to move out of that pathetic little one story waste of estate there on the corner and make way for a hotel. ( doesn't have to be the CCH ) but something taller then just a one story bank or whatever.

[utenation]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Having attended a lot of conventions and worked with meeting planners to bring conventions to SLC, it all works much better if there is a direct connection between the hotel and the convention space. Cities without direct connection get marked down in the assessments of where to place a convention.

I think it depends on how far exactly the hotel is from the CC and what type of obstacles/traffic is involved in getting there.


Denver's Hyatt for example is not directly connected but it's literally 50 feet away door to door and a tiny walk across the street. Seamless.

I agree with your overall point though.

[H4vok]

They could use this underutilized corner like this:

[Plaid Shirts]

deleted

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by H4vok

They could use this underutilized corner like this:

That would be a very good place to put it. No skybridge/tunnels needed.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

That would be a very good place to put it. No skybridge/tunnels needed.

I agree. I like that area. I wish they would get rid of that building that has parking on the first few levels then office space above. It sits just west of the Capitol Theatre. I think that would be another great place for a CCH. That building along with the Shilo Inn are a couple of the ugliest buildings in SLC.

[Stuxnet]

A while back a few talked about ways to improve the look and interaction with parking garages. Today I was on tumblr and saw this cool thing done on a parking garage in Cardiff. http://archatlas.tumblr.com/post/79968580490

[ToysNoiz]

Very Cool!!

I would also like the CHH on that corner. But I highly doubt that it would be considered as a location by developers.

[Skystruck]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Very Cool!!

I would also like the CHH on that corner. But I highly doubt that it would be considered as a location by developers.

That does make for a very attractive parking garage!

As far as the CCH I think it would look great on the SE corner! But not sure if it has a big enough foot print to accommodate the needed convention space. From a sheer skyline perspective however a tall slender tower in that location would look amazing! I also think a tall slender tower would look amazing on the Arrow Press lot. That said I really think that the RWP lot is the most likely of the locations mentioned. It does have its advantages as pointed out by Future Mayor but I don't think a tall tower would look as good there. If it turned out to be something along the lines of the RWP rendering that has been kicking around for awhile it would definitely add some depth to the east and west view of the skyline and probably look very good from I-15.

[Future Mayor]

I was at an event at Goldman Sacs today at 222, and I was talking to a women there about "rumors" I had heard about them looking for a place in either 111 or 145, and if they were still hiring. She told me that they never stop hiring. She also told me that yes they are looking at both of those, she said they hadn't decided exactly what building they would be moving into, and that part of that new space would be to accommodate moving the Research Park employees, (as others have reported.) The best news is that they won't be leaving 222, they will just be adding space in another tower.

Later during the event I did hear a couple of people talking and one guy pointed from the window, up Main and I heard him mention 111.

Goldman Sacs seems to currently be the biggest contributors to the new office towers in Salt Lake City.

As they continue to expand their office here in Downtown, and expand the portfolio of services that are handled from this office, I see a direct correlation between that and CCC condo purchases. A very large number of employees moved into American Towers when they transferred to SLC, (which some referred to at the event today as The Goldman Sacs tower) and many of those are renters. If middle and upper management see themselves staying in the SLC office for several years I fully expect that several of them will buy a higher priced CCC condo. I could especially see this if more management is transferred from NYC, to expand the services here, wanting to buy at CCC, desiring to have something similar to what some of them may have had in NYC.