Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by alincoln123

I have been following this forum for some time now and have really enjoyed the updates and opinions you have shared. I have recently been thinking about utilizing Regent street more effectively and came across this public art installation in Spain. I really liked it and thought that an installation similar to this between the CCC and the Gallivan Center would increase the interest people would have to leave the CCC and make that walk down to Gallivan. Perhaps this would lead to further exploration around that block. I know that other things would have to happen on that street (UPAC, new retail, street vendors?) to make it truly successful, but perhaps something like this would encourage this type of investment.

One last note: The installation seems temporary but that may not be a bad thing. Perhaps there could be a new installation for each season (for example: Chinese lanterns for the winter?) to keep interest. Look forward to your thoughts.

These pictures were taken by Patricia Almeida and Diana Tavares.

I am not sure I am inserting the images correctly so you may want to check out this link: Umbrella Art http://www.amusingplanet.com/2012/07/colorful-floating-umbrella-installation.html

I like this Idea A LOT!!!!!!! Especially changing it up. Like someone mentioned on here. There does need to be a reason to walk down the street other than that. But I like it!!

[EPdesign]

SaltCityScrapers....Ha!! that Hotel/temple/u of u tower monstrosity was funny!!!

T-Mac. Awesome pics. Thank you

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Just so I don't have to keep going back and search for it. It kinda reminds me of the Cosmopolitam/Madarin/Aria complex in Las Vegas...but not as cool. Hope if it is several buildings, they go BOLD!!!! with the designs

Enjoy:

A few things that SLC could do to make a great statement with that underground proposal to connect ESA to a hotel complex like this would be shops/Food stands in the tunnel. Example:



It's a very European thing to do, but every European City I've been to had these in most of the high traffic tunnels, also Sydney and Melbourne. All Metro/Subway tunnels had them.

It would do a few things: 1- promote independent business owners. Shoe Shine stands? 2-Food stands can be down there. The best Sushi Restaurant in Tokyo is in one of these just for an example, also fruit and Veggie stands. 3-promote foot traffic to this area going towards the Gateway.

The Jazz could invest in a shop if they are ambitious enough and it can tie into the new hotels going in there with some gift shops and what not. With increase foot traffic I think it would help with keeping down vandalism. And just think about Arrow Press Square becoming a tiny shop/ foot traffic area in the same manner. Really it would be great to see a little of that type of European feel to some of the older area's.

One draw back, Tunnels are more expensive then Sky Bridges

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by alincoln123

I have been following this forum for some time now and have really enjoyed the updates and opinions you have shared. I have recently been thinking about utilizing Regent street more effectively and came across this public art installation in Spain. I really liked it and thought that an installation similar to this between the CCC and the Gallivan Center would increase the interest people would have to leave the CCC and make that walk down to Gallivan. Perhaps this would lead to further exploration around that block. I know that other things would have to happen on that street (UPAC, new retail, street vendors?) to make it truly successful, but perhaps something like this would encourage this type of investment.

One last note: The installation seems temporary but that may not be a bad thing. Perhaps there could be a new installation for each season (for example: Chinese lanterns for the winter?) to keep interest. Look forward to your thoughts.

These pictures were taken by Patricia Almeida and Diana Tavares.

I am not sure I am inserting the images correctly so you may want to check out this link: Umbrella Art http://www.amusingplanet.com/2012/07/colorful-floating-umbrella-installation.html

I think you nailed it with things like this. Salt Lake really doesn't do much when it comes to City/Urban Art. If you are going to make the City more walkable these features are essential to peoples interest to walk.

Regents running down the PAC with art features and at the End you would get maybe an Art Plaza where Eat-A-Burger is and the Plaza has something like this





Or maybe even the new location of the Olympic Heritage Park/Museum. It's almost too easy to think this up it's the get'in-ur-done that's the problem.

[SLC Projects]

I think I prefer Sky Bridges over Tunnels.

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I think I prefer Sky Bridges over Tunnels.

It depends on the interaction of the buildings for me. A Sky Bridge like at City Creek is a good use for one. If the Sky Bridge is running straight into another building then I think it works great. When a Sky Bridge runs out of a building, across the street and ends on the sidewalk it does not look good, could you image that heading over to ESA? Vegas has those and I think they look awful.



Minneapolis has lots of Sky Bridges and I think those work a lot better with the city because they run from Building to Building.

[Future Mayor]

While the overall idea of a tunnel connecting to ESA is pretty cool, shops would never succeed in it. Not many conventions use ESA in conjunction with the Salt Palace, and not many ESA event require any sort of connection to that other block, seems like a HUGE expense for very little use. The reason the tunnel shops are successful in other cities is because they connect places that have every day uses, and often times are part of an already existing subterranean system such as subways.

As for the CCH on the Arrow Press Square block I find it a hard block to have any feasible chance of being the location, for many reasons. 1) From what I have heard there is an underground substation underneath Killowatt Commons (grass area) and I assume that can't be covered with a building of any sort. 2) Without tearing down the buildings on 100 S(which I would hate to see happen, and without the grass area of Killowatt commons, the Arrow Press Square/DV8 location doesn't provide a very large footprint to accommodate very large convention rooms. 3) Does the convention space in the hotel need to connect with the Salt Palace convention space and does it simply need a hallway connection or does it need contiguous expo space. Expo space connection is impossible from that location, and even a basic connection is fairly difficult from that location.


I discussed the possible connection issues from surrounding sites with some basic massing drawings on page 325, here they are again.

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Back to the CCH discussion. If they are looking for a shovel or nearly shovel ready site these are the only locations that I can think of.

Japan Town parking lot, with a potential skybridge connecting to the expo hall.


Dead Goat. A skybridge spanning W. Temple would be enourmous, particularly since I don't see them going straight across (red) considering that would put the skybridge right smack into the Grand Ballroom, so they would have to go on a diagonal. Plus that parcel doesn't seem to have much room for convention space, unless they built all the meeting halls 4-5 floors.


South Temple: I don't see the NE corner of 200 W and S. Temple working as the skybridge would go directly into an entrance, and I would anticipate a tremendous amount of interior remodeling in order to get it to connect to the areas beyond the lobby. The NE Corner of 300 W and S. Temple would have a much easier time connecting to the convention center.
Someone asked about the Radisson Parking lot and the Fidelity Building. As can be seen in this image the parking lot is pretty small, even with the corner Fidelity property and I don't see how they could add a whole lot of additional convention space, unless of course they were to put it on 4-5 floors.


If it is going to be on a shovel or nearly shovel ready parcel, of the four options above I think the Japan Town Parking lot provides the best possible connection, has a decent amount of area available for convention space, and even some large Expo Halls, and a skybridge wouldn't disturb any view corridors. My second option of the four above would the the S. Temple block between 200 and 300 W, using the south side of that block. That location has the most potential for large expanses of convention space, but would require a skybridge for a direct connection and would disturb a view corridor to the UP Depot.

Dead Goat just seems to small with a difficult connection, and S. Temple NE corner of 200 W seems to just have horrible connection options, plus disturbing a view corridor.

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Thank you for the non info info. I'm glad to hear that there is no site that is completely off the table, that still gives me hope for RWP. To me RWP is the only place that could add connected large expo space.

I never thought that the S. Temple Parking lots would be a viable option due to the LDS Churches long range plans, but when I thought it had to be shovel ready there were only those few options, including those parking lots.

Here are the same sites, plus RWP with a large Expo Space connection. However please note that the expo space connecting from the site to the Salt Palace isn't drawn anywhere near the actual width of a Salt Palace expo hall, except the RWP option.

I guess my overall point regarding site selection, is two parts:
1) How much and what type of convention space is the County going to require? A) Expo Space B) Meeting halls/conference rooms C) both.
2) What will the County demand as far as a connection goes? A) No connection, just proximity B) A simply hallway/walkway type connection C) Expo Space connection.

[SaltCityScrapers]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

While the overall idea of a tunnel connecting to ESA is pretty cool, shops would never succeed in it. Not many conventions use ESA in conjunction with the Salt Palace, and not many ESA event require any sort of connection to that other block, seems like a HUGE expense for very little use. The reason the tunnel shops are successful in other cities is because they connect places that have every day uses, and often times are part of an already existing subterranean system such as subways.

As for the CCH on the Arrow Press Square block I find it a hard block to have any feasible chance of being the location, for many reasons. 1) From what I have heard there is an underground substation underneath Killowatt Commons (grass area) and I assume that can't be covered with a building of any sort. 2) Without tearing down the buildings on 100 S(which I would hate to see happen, and without the grass area of Killowatt commons, the Arrow Press Square/DV8 location doesn't provide a very large footprint to accommodate very large convention rooms. 3) Does the convention space in the hotel need to connect with the Salt Palace convention space and does it simply need a hallway connection or does it need contiguous expo space. Expo space connection is impossible from that location, and even a basic connection is fairly difficult from that location.


I discussed the possible connection issues from surrounding sites with some basic massing drawings on page 325, here they are again.





I guess my overall point regarding site selection, is two parts:
1) How much and what type of convention space is the County going to require? A) Expo Space B) Meeting halls/conference rooms C) both.
2) What will the County demand as far as a connection goes? A) No connection, just proximity B) A simply hallway/walkway type connection C) Expo Space connection.

If the past is any indicator, the main issues are
#1. WHO is willing to sell?
#2. WHO is going to need (and willing) to be relocated?
#3. At what price?
#4. Will "eminent domain" become an issue?
#5. If the site has a small footprint, will it still make financial sense? Remember that over 25 stories, things start to get pricier (per square foot).
#6. Will it end up within 1000 feet of the Salt Palace?

Think back to block 57 (Gallivan) and all the obstacles they faced.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by SaltCityScrapers

If the past is any indicator, the main issues are
#1. WHO is willing to sell?
#2. WHO is going to need (and willing) to be relocated?
#3. At what price?
#4. Will "eminent domain" become an issue?
#5. If the site has a small footprint, will it still make financial sense? Remember that over 25 stories, things start to get pricier (per square foot).
#6. Will it end up within 1000 feet of the Salt Palace?

Think back to block 57 (Gallivan) and all the obstacles they faced.

All very good points let's discuss those further. But let's throw #6 out, because the legislation specifically reads that for state funding, the hotel must be within 1,000' of the Convention Center.

Realistically there are only four large parcel where #5 wouldn't be an issue. 1) Former medals plaza block. B) NE Corner of 2nd and S. Temple. C) Japan Town (SE Corner of 3rd W 1st S). D) RWP.

#1
A & B - LDS Church, do they want to sell or master lease the property, or are they set on their master plan for BYUSL and LDSBC, and their overall Church Campus? Could they have one of these slated for a COB II?
D & C - two parcels, one owner.

#2
A & B - Vacant
C - Vacant
D - For Sale (not sure on this), developer can choose to not extend current leases or terminate them early with the right buy out.

#3
A - Probably a pretty fair market value, but only if they have scrapped their BYUSL and LDSBC plans
B - Probably a pretty fair market value, depending on if they have that area master planned or not. If not if they see it benefiting their CCC investment.
C & D - Probably above market value because the current owner sees that either parcel may be one of very few possible locations.

#4
The City doesn't like to use eminent domain when it is this type of situation, considering these parcels are large and only two owners, I don't see them attempting to use that. It's the type of situation where all but one parcel owner is willing to sell and eminent domain would be beneficial.

#5
Not relevant to these particular parcels.

#6
This is a non issue, because the legislation spells out that the hotel MUST be within 1,000' of the Convention Center. If it's not the funding doesn't happen and nothing gets built.


Yes there were many issues involved with the Gallivan Center, I don't really see that many of those apply, at least not in the parcels I suggested. The city was building a non money making public space, while the CCH is a profit making venture.

I could see Gallivan like issues, and Eminent Domain issues coming into play if Arrow Press Square were in the running, and it included the 100 S buildings. Multiple parcels, multiple owners, some more willing than others, some greedier than others, etc.


In all honestly as I've heard arguments over the years of possible locations I really think the most logical, and feasible location is RWP, followed by the Japan Town Parking lot.

[ajiuO]

I still want to see it on south temple.. My gut instinct tells me that it will probably be along west temple though... Probably on the SE corner of w. Temple and first... I would not be surprised to see anything on the block along 100 south or west temple go.

The mall blocks have been redeveloped, the newspaper block is underway.. Redeveloping that block would kind of fit the trend... There are a few nice old building on the corner of w temple and 100 south.. But I would not be to hurt to see any of it go.

I would be ok with the tower going on the SE corner of W. Temple and 100 s... Or the NE corner of W. Temple and 200 south... With a lot of the rest of the block as convention space... I would also like to see a movie theater go on Main Street across from UPAC.. Then we could get some nice restaurants and retail towards the south end of Main Street.. On both sides of the street.... This would make for a really solid area..

Then the next logical step would be to really tie in regent street to Galivan plaza... Then try to better connect Galivan Plaza with the Library block.

I honestly don't see any substantial high-rises going up west of West Temple any time soon... I think RWP might be better redeveloped as an entertainment strip... Second south would be nice place for maybe a bowling alley, some nice clubs bars and restaurants... It would make a nice transition into the Gateway area which tends to attract a younger crowd.

[Your Boy Blue]

I haven't posted anything in years, nor did I post much to begin with, but I live downtown and was taking a walk today...getting some fresh air and enjoying the weather. I took a bunch of pictures of the demo on Regent Street. I was going to post those for ya'll, but it looks like T-Mac already posted some great pics of all that so I'll spare you my crappy photos (Tmac's pics are much better).

Anyway, while I am on here, I may as well post something. This is somewhat old news, but I am not sure if it was ever discussed. I know how most of us love to see older buildings (especially those sitting vacant) get put back to good use. My sister-in-law works for a company called Alpine Securities (a stock brokerage and clearing firm). Last fall they did some renovations and moved into the old Salt Lake Stock and Mining Exchange building (gray building pictured below).

Exchange Place is such a nice area. I am glad to see this building getting some use again. I also think it's cool, and fitting, that a local brokerage firm moved into it (kind of a nod to the past).

[scottharding]

I love Exchange Place, it's one of my favorite parts of the city. I'm glad someone has put the old Stock Exchange to good use. It deserves it. Thanks for posting Your Boy Blue! I hope we hear from you more often.

[jimmycdii]

I also love Exchange Place. When I'm walking somewhere downtown I often go out of my way just to walk through there. And great picture!

[Comrade]

Exchange Place is great. It's a shame, though, they had to build that ugly parking garage there.

[delts145]

That placement is turning out better than I had imagined.

Originally Posted by T-Mac

Hyatt Hotel by the ESA

By T-Mac


I sympathize with Minneapolis having winters that go long stretches at a time with sub-zero temps, but God forbid Salt Lake should ever feel compelled to develop those type and number of skywalks. That is the about as sterile and vapid a street as anyone could dream up.

http://www.wwaytv3.com

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Exchange Place is great. It's a shame, though, they had to build that ugly parking garage there.

They didn't "have to" build that parking garage there, its just parking lots and garages is the default land use overlay for SLC. While we're at it...Which garage? There's two of 'em right next to each other nearly empty every day.


There's a large parcel sandwiched between those two garages and the old Arbauch's. It's actually kind of a cool space from the Urban Explorer urban decay viewpoint. I'm not sure what used to be there... maybe an old theater?

[Plaid Shirts]

Plaid Shirts is back! BOOM!!!

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by plaid shirts

plaid shirts is back! Boom!!!

<3

[downtownslcresident]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

Plaid Shirts is back! BOOM!!!

i dont know why you seem to think you are center of attention on this forum and that everything revolves around you...

...and i really dont understand where you got the idea that most (if not any) of us are excited that you're back.

actually, I can't stand you. I think most people feel the same.

shrug.


Anyway, the ESA Hotel really does look a lot better there than I expected it to, as well. Very excited about that. And I am fascinated that I have never seen that building in Exchange Place before! What is that address?

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Exchange Place is great. It's a shame, though, they had to build that ugly parking garage there.

I completely agree. There wasn't enough oversight on it's design; It's a real eyesore when compared with the surrounding buildings.