stal̕əw̓asəm (Riverview) Bridge (Pattullo Bridge Replacement) | U/C

[paradigm4]

FYI folks, the traffic modeling and cost estimates that the New West reports refers to are from TransLink's consultants.

[makr3trkr]

http://www.royalcityrecord.com/new-westminster-unveils-pattullo-bridge-position-1.878476

"Jim Lowrie, the city’s director of engineering, said a new tolled four-lane bridge would cost $850 million and a rehabilitated four-lane bridge would cost $250 million. He said that compares to a $1.5 billion estimated cost of a new six-lane bridge."


from "PATTULLO BRIDGE REVIEW – INITIAL SCREENING OF CROSSING ALTERNATIVES (summer 2013)"

http://www.pattullobridgereview.ca/wp-co...ge-Review-Discussion-Guide-June-2013.pdf

[new 4-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE ($M): $820–$845

[new 6-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE: $985M–$1.1B


Lowrie is either misquoted, confused, or outright distorting the truth.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

http://www.royalcityrecord.com/new-westminster-unveils-pattullo-bridge-position-1.878476

"Jim Lowrie, the city’s director of engineering, said a new tolled four-lane bridge would cost $850 million and a rehabilitated four-lane bridge would cost $250 million. He said that compares to a $1.5 billion estimated cost of a new six-lane bridge."


from "PATTULLO BRIDGE REVIEW – INITIAL SCREENING OF CROSSING ALTERNATIVES (summer 2013)"

http://www.pattullobridgereview.ca/wp-co...ge-Review-Discussion-Guide-June-2013.pdf



[new 4-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE ($M): $820–$845

[new 6-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE: $985M–$1.1B


Lowrie is either misquoted, confused, or outright distorting the truth.

I'll bet ole Jimmy Boy is an unhealthy mix of the last two you mentioned

[officedweller]

Burnaby just wants no Patullo bridge at all:

http://www.burnabynow.com/news/burnaby-reluctant-to-support-new-west-s-bridge-proposal-1.893363

[deasine]

Wow this debate just gets more interesting (ridiculous).

[moosejaw]

in all reality.
I would be for removing traffic from Burnaby and New West altogether.

The only justification for a six lane bridge is for an adjoining tunnel bore (stormont) directly to the TCH. You couldnt justify a tunnel without tolls of course. But it would remove traffic off of surface streets.
Im all for removing the line up on Canada Way.

[Cypherus]

Before we see anything happen to this bridge, a seismic earthquake will take it out and then people will start pointing fingers at each other. Such a bureaucratic mess. Howl long enough, someone will eventually come take a look to see what is up - that is what will have to happened before something gets going.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

"Jim Lowrie, the city’s director of engineering, said a new tolled four-lane bridge would cost $850 million and a rehabilitated four-lane bridge would cost $250 million. He said that compares to a $1.5 billion estimated cost of a new six-lane bridge."


[new 4-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE ($M): $820–$845

[new 6-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE: $985M–$1.1B


Lowrie is either misquoted, confused, or outright distorting the truth.

I'm wondering if a Stormont Connector would be included in that price tag for the 6 lane option, and the 4 lane option is probably just a bridge with no frills.

Re: Burnaby

Why the hell do politicians and planners never think of path efficiency. Making truck traffic take 10-20km detours comes with huge emissions generation and economic costs. Hilariously, Burnaby doesn't have a single major bridge and they certainly get almost none of the traffic problems (except Canada Way on a bad day) that result from major bridges. To top it off, Burnaby is still building car centric strip malls nowhere near transit.

[WarrenC12]

Corrigan certainly knows how to play the uneducated public like a fiddle.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Wouldn't be an NDP mainstay if he didn't.

[afreak]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Wouldn't be an NDP mainstay if he didn't.

You know, I have been wanting to say this for a while: the partisanship I see on these forums is the main reason why I lurk and not participate. I very much like to discuss transportation matters with other people, but on this forum, I just care to see this as an aggregator and nothing more.

Calling people who vote for [party] as [ad hominem] gives the indication of closed-mindedness, which is the one of the main reasons for why we end up with political deadlock. I voted NDP in the last election, but I must an imbecile even though I very much despise Corrigan, want a new bridge into New Westminster to replace the old one, and am for much-needed transportation upgrades, right?

It's attitudes like yours and others that make others not want to participate in discussion and as a result leads to these forums being nothing more than an echo chamber.

The bridge needs to be upgraded; attitudes on here do too.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by afreak

The bridge needs to be upgraded; attitudes on here do too.

Hear, hear!

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

[new 4-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE ($M): $820–$845

[new 6-lane] PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE: $985M–$1.1B

Actually those are the preliminary cost estimates that I also recall. Going from 4 to 6 lanes definitely does not require a doubling of capital costs!!!

Bridge piles, bridge piers, and the bridge deck are the major components of the structure. And the incremental cost of going from 4 to 6 lanes is certainly not double!!!! Otherwise one could have 2 separate 4 lane bridges. Doesn't pass the smell test. I am frankly surprised that no one has been called out on same and esp. NW's "engineer". Sounds more political from him and any civil engineer worth his salt would be canned under the circumstances.

Originally Posted by afreak

Calling people who vote for [party] as [ad hominem] gives the indication of closed-mindedness, which is the one of the main reasons for why we end up with political deadlock. I voted NDP in the last election...

Sorry buds. But welcome to the real world of transportation infrastructure in BC and in Metro Vancouver specifically.

The NDP and it's municipally affiliated politicos are historically notorious for opposing highway/bridge projects in Metro Vancouver! They seem to only listen to people that scream the loudest. Oy vey!

Waaaay back in the early 1980's Van City mayor Mike Harcourt (future NDP premier) held a press conference denouncing the proposed Alex Fraser Bridge and Hwy 91 fwy even though it was waaaay out of his municipal jurisdiction.

The same pattern has been consistent for decades. Corrigan opposing the Canada Line. BC NDP opposing the new PMB and Hwy 1 upgrades. The SFPR. I can go on and on.

I def wanna get things built and done. Sorry, but NDP politicos have always been the proverbial "Dr. No" in this same vein. Always been like that! And it is certainly fair comment.

[Tetsuo]

I wouldn't be surprised if NW's estimate includes the Royal Ave tunnel and other upgrades.

[afreak]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

I def wanna get things built and done. Sorry, but NDP politicos have always been the proverbial "Dr. No" in this same vein. Always been like that! And it is certainly fair comment.

You're welcome to say that but insulting those who vote for them does you no good.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Actually those are the preliminary cost estimates that I also recall. Going from 4 to 6 lanes definitely does not require a doubling of capital costs!!!

Bridge piles, bridge piers, and the bridge deck are the major components of the structure. And the incremental cost of going from 4 to 6 lanes is certainly not double!!!! Otherwise one could have 2 separate 4 lane bridges. Doesn't pass the smell test. I am frankly surprised that no one has been called out on same and esp. NW's "engineer". Sounds more political from him and any civil engineer worth his salt would be canned under the circumstances.



Sorry buds. But welcome to the real world of transportation infrastructure in BC and in Metro Vancouver specifically.

The NDP and it's municipally affiliated politicos are historically notorious for opposing highway/bridge projects in Metro Vancouver! They seem to only listen to people that scream the loudest. Oy vey!

Waaaay back in the early 1980's Van City mayor Mike Harcourt (future NDP premier) held a press conference denouncing the proposed Alex Fraser Bridge and Hwy 91 fwy even though it was waaaay out of his municipal jurisdiction.

The same pattern has been consistent for decades. Corrigan opposing the Canada Line. BC NDP opposing the new PMB and Hwy 1 upgrades. The SFPR. I can go on and on.

I def wanna get things built and done. Sorry, but NDP politicos have always been the proverbial "Dr. No" in this same vein. Always been like that! And it is certainly fair comment.

Just like the Liberals opposed the Millenium line when it was being built.

Fact is every party will oppose what some other party is doing to try and get votes. Whether it is good or bad.

All parties do it from all sides.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by afreak

You're welcome to say that but insulting those who vote for them does you no good.

This is a partial topic aside... sorry mods.

Recently the NDP's script has been pretty lame with a few exceptions. Take any idea, even if it's decent, say "its 🞵🞵🞵🞵", don't provide a better alternative. There's Dix's MO from the last election. It's the pandering to the base who just want to say "no" in blanket opposition. I don't think that's a respectable position, and puts a damper on many good ideas.

I don't think highly of Corrigan either, and he's been at the core of the NDP and the town I grew up in for quite some time. As soon as Burnaby got what it wanted, it didn't lift a finger help other municipalities afford the quality infrastructure it enjoys. Again, his lack of regional vision is pandering to reactive people who assume that anything outside of your direct interest isn't in your overall interest.

The Libs have done plenty of odd things, but they've done things that you can see, use and quantifiably benefit from. There are many things I'd have done different if I was in their shoes, but they've at least gotten the ball rolling.

Now I have to ask, since policy wise the NDP and the Greens are fairly similar. Why not vote Green? I think they had a better platform than NDP did last election, and they don't seem to be weighed down with near as much political/union/socialist huberis. Also, in general I like the Green's environmental platform a lot better, the NDP even tried to kill the carbon tax in 2009.

Now re: Patullo, saying demo it and with no replacement is obviously the worst option for the region. But as long as you're not on the hook solutions and get your name in the paper.

Corrigan said he's advised Surrey that the only way it would create its own city centre is by making sure it isn't easy for people to get to Downtown Vancouver.

Come on? Really? I wouldn't want this man planning my postage stamp of a garden, let alone the 3rd largest metropolitan area in Canada. A healthy metropolitan area needs to function as a unit. You don't just subdivide and reduce mobility to force people to use a tertiary core.

[makr3trkr]

Sell it back to New West for $1 (again).

They can make it one lane each way, ban trucks, and toll it to pay for repairs.

The Patullo is starting to be a white elephant. Or a red herring, I guess.

Just give New West what they want to prove the rest of the region doesn't have to be held to ransom.

Then maybe better solutions could be found.

[afreak]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Now I have to ask, since policy wise the NDP and the Greens are fairly similar. Why not vote Green? I think they had a better platform than NDP did last election, and they don't seem to be weighed down with near as much political/union/socialist huberis. Also, in general I like the Green's environmental platform a lot better, the NDP even tried to kill the carbon tax in 2009.

I don't think that you get what I just said, but to answer your question, I don't vote Green simply because I don't care for very specific, anti-science policies--a very easy case in point is the whole radio signal sickness that many have baseless claims to.

I voted NDP because in my mind they're the worst of the diseases. I am not singing the praises of their party as they certainly have their fair share of winners, but to say that anyone who votes for them is of lesser intelligence than yourself or others is wrong. You may feel that the BC Liberals have done great work for the province, but I do not feel that way.

Don't speak down to others because of their decisions on who to vote; it's bad enough we're going to have this pointless referendum.

[deasine]

Off topic discussion ends here.