Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[officedweller]

In terms of switch operation, it's probably no different than switches at terminus stations which switch back and forth for every train. and the switches at SkyBride to the M-Line switch back and forth for every 3rd train (?).

In terms of delay time, likewise, it's probaby similar to the delay in a train using a crossover before a terminus station and probably not nearly as much of a delay as at the single track segments of the Canada Line (although comparing one shortcoming to another isn't really optimal). I also think that delays will be masked as station dwell time.

[Zassk]

Especially frustrating given that they have chosen a thoughtful roughed-in station layout for the wye at Coquitlam Centre station. That four-platform layout is exactly what Lougheed needed. And you would think that a little concrete cutting would have made it possible, regardless of what was built in 2001.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Anytime someone brings up that switching diagram for Lougheed Station post Evergreen Line, I can only think to myself...

Why are we doing this cheap band-aid fix now when we know the switches will become the biggest bottleneck to the network in the years to come?

(end rant)

Originally Posted by Zassk

Especially frustrating given that they have chosen a thoughtful roughed-in station layout for the wye at Coquitlam Centre station. That four-platform layout is exactly what Lougheed needed. And you would think that a little concrete cutting would have made it possible, regardless of what was built in 2001.

At the end of the day, we can all point the finger to Glen Clark and Ujjal Dosanjh for this clusterf*ck!

If they didn't start building the Lougheed Station at the assumption that the Evergreen Line (then PMC Line) would be built immediately, THEN CANCEL IT (by killing the vehicle levy for political points), we would probably still have the basketweave or the proper alignment, no band aide solution crap, etc and wouldn't have to experience the ridiculous delays, and regional infighting and suffering for over a decade.

Yes, the way the Lougheed Station is setup and wrong railing is extremely convoluted, but what else can we do? Its there, its pretty much done, and its the best we can live with. Its a small price to pay but at least, the Northeast Sector is finally getting the rapid transit that they needed so badly for a long long time...

At least developers are adapting to this clusterf*ck system. Notice how Bosa takes the Skytrain wrong railing (0:10 to 0:17 of the video) into account in their new Uptown development in Burquitlam...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERJ75ODHtog

• Video Link

[TransitFreak]

By removing the basket weave, if they ever wanted to "right rail " the trains, they can. They would have to make people do the down, under and up maneuver. I can only assume that the transfer to westbound trains from Braid is more in demand than eastbound.
However, if they want to make Burquitlam the new SFU transfer hub, having the trains right rail would benefit with the right railing, and have the Coquitlam bound trains where the Vcc-clark trains currently are.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by TransitFreak

By removing the basket weave, if they ever wanted to "right rail " the trains, they can. They would have to make people do the down, under and up maneuver. I can only assume that the transfer to westbound trains from Braid is more in demand than eastbound.
However, if they want to make Burquitlam the new SFU transfer hub, having the trains right rail would benefit with the right railing, and have the Coquitlam bound trains where the Vcc-clark trains currently are.

I'm not clear on why "wrong-railing" or "right-railing" trains on North Road makes a difference if Burquitlam becomes the SFU transfer hub.

[TransitFreak]

Current set up is having Evergreen wrong railed so that the westbound train lines up with future millenium line terminus on same platform. This allows passengers on millenium line wanting to go to SFU Production Way/University to cross platform transfer without having to go down and under.

If they now want Burquitlam to be the SFU transfer for Millenium passengers, then the right rail issue is resolved by having eastbound trains line up with the future millenium terminus station and cross platform transfer.

A basketweave would be OK only if they wanted the new platform being built designated for Coquitlam forever. By taking the basketweave out, they can right rail if they want to.

To me, they're missing two switches which would eliminate conflict for right rail operations. A switch east of the station house to go from westbound track to eastbound track to remove the double switch movement. A 2nd switch would be another set of switches that goes from the westbound track to the 3rd platform track. This would be nice for right rail operation, as this would eliminate the conflict of the westbound track handling both directions of traffic.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by TransitFreak

Current set up is having Evergreen wrong railed so that the westbound train lines up with future millenium line terminus on same platform. This allows passengers on millenium line wanting to go to SFU Production Way/University to cross platform transfer without having to go down and under.

If they now want Burquitlam to be the SFU transfer for Millenium passengers, then the right rail issue is resolved by having eastbound trains line up with the future millenium terminus station and cross platform transfer.

If SFU students from Braid and beyond is the main driving force as to why planners are trying to avoid the go down and under transfer, then I say Burquitlam, not Production Way, should be the SFU transfer point moving forward. It actually makes more sense....

1) SFU students coming from North Burnaby would have a slightly longer Skytrain trip, getting off at Burquitlam instead of Production, BUT they would have a shorter bus trip since Burquitlam is physically closer to the school. Though they can continue to use Production, Translink can eliminate that redundancy and save money () by consolidating the SFU shuttle bus service into one station.

2) SFU students coming from Braid and beyond would actually benefit even better with this arrangement. So if the transfer point is Burquitlam and the train heading to Burquitlam is already in the existing Lougheed westbound platform, those students can simply walk across. Again, a shorter bus ride for them to get off Burquitlam instead of Production.

It would really be those people who want to go to Production and beyond that would need to walk down and up, but again, I believe they are the minority compared to the SFU students.

Now that TransitFreak mentioned it, I guess not having the basketweave is a blessing in disguise. The mechanism of right railing is possible, and frankly, should be implemented at the beginning. It would mean less wear and tear for the system, and less confusing to the users, majority coming from the Northeast Sector.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

If SFU students from Braid and beyond is the main driving force as to why planners are trying to avoid the go down and under transfer, then I say Burquitlam, not Production Way, should be the SFU transfer point moving forward.

It's my understanding that this will in fact be the case.

[Ehlun]

As I was reading and Googling...

My understanding all along was 145 gets moved to Burquitlam Station, but...

The majority of route 143 will eventually be replaced by the Evergreen Line SkyTrain extension in 2014 when a shorter 143 bus route will run from Burquitlam Station to the SFU Transit Loop.

http://univercity.ca/wp-content/themes/U...ILITY_STUDY_FINAL_EMAILABLE%20042209.pdf

Wonder if this means the 145 gets eliminated or they run both the 145 and shortened 143?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Ehlun

As I was reading and Googling...

My understanding all along was 145 gets moved to Burquitlam Station, but...


http://univercity.ca/wp-content/themes/U...ILITY_STUDY_FINAL_EMAILABLE%20042209.pdf

Wonder if this means the 145 gets eliminated or they run both the 145 and shortened 143?

Burquitlam is NOT meant replace Production station. It just take some load off Production station. The 145 will stay as-is, perhaps with a slight reduction of service during peak hours. The 143 will see increase of service with trip from SFU alternating between Burquitlam and Coquitlam Station during weekday daytime. However, the 145 will remains the main service to SFU as it will have more service during any time of the day.

Just a comparison with the service stated in the 2007 integration plan for Evergreen LRT:

			143	145
Weekday Peak		5	2-4
Weekday Midday		10	7.5
Weekday Evening		30	12-15
Weekday Late Night	-	30
Weekend Daytime		30	15
Weekend Evening		30	15-30
Weekend Late Night	-	30

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by nname

Burquitlam is NOT meant replace Production station. It just take some load off Production station. The 145 will stay as-is, perhaps with a slight reduction of service during peak hours. The 143 will see increase of service with trip from SFU alternating between Burquitlam and Coquitlam Station during weekday daytime. However, the 145 will remains the main service to SFU as it will have more service during any time of the day.

Not meant at you nname, rather at those know it all Translink planners but jeeze!!!!!

Here we have an opportunity to actually have some cost saving efficiencies on servicing students and at the same time reduce wear and tear into the rapid transit system and avoiding confusion to the riding public, and yet Translink won't do it?

The Production Station SFU shuttle is now redundant, and students *should* be getting off Burquitlam since its closer to the school. People coming from North Burnaby would never have to get off the train to get to Burquitlam no matter what configuration, so why should they get off at Production and endure a 15 minute bus ride when 8 minutes (per the Bosa Uptown ad) or less to SFU if done at Burquitlam????

It really makes you wonder the wisdom that we pay six figures to each of the Translink staff that makes these cookie, irrational decisions, eh?

[officedweller]

The cross-platform transfer is also meant to facilitate Surrey-Coquitlam transfers.

Under the LRSP, the "T" Line was supposed to have the wye open to the south, to allow trains to travel from Coquitlam to New West (providing a single transfer to Surrey).
Instead, the line was built with the wye opening to the east, requiring 2 transfers from Coquitlam to Surrey.

So in addition to helping New West passengers transfer to Vancouver-bound trains, the cross-platform transfer also helps passengers from Coquitlam transfer to trains to New West and then transfer to Surrey.

[SFUVancouver]

Admission time: I have no clear idea what the issue is with Lougheed Station. Could someone please explain the configuration with the simplicity they would use when explaining it to a parent or a non-transit/non-technical co-worker?

I've followed the Evergreen Line closely and I am 75% sure that I understand the configuration, but I also trust that the people on this forum have solid ground for being frustrated with the final design. So help me out: what's the issue?

[officedweller]

See the track routing diagram on the previous page.
People don't like that trains have to cross in front of each other to arrive at their assigned station platorms.

[nname]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Not meant at you nname, rather at those know it all Translink planners but jeeze!!!!!

Here we have an opportunity to actually have some cost saving efficiencies on servicing students and at the same time reduce wear and tear into the rapid transit system and avoiding confusion to the riding public, and yet Translink won't do it?

The Production Station SFU shuttle is now redundant, and students *should* be getting off Burquitlam since its closer to the school. People coming from North Burnaby would never have to get off the train to get to Burquitlam no matter what configuration, so why should they get off at Production and endure a 15 minute bus ride when 8 minutes (per the Bosa Uptown ad) or less to SFU if done at Burquitlam????

One thing you forget is - traffic. After taking bus to SFU for more than 8 years, I would much prefer the 145 than the 143 if I'm in north Burnaby. The hill up Como Lake is always jammed up during peak hours that it sometimes take longer to get from SFU to Burquitlam than from Burquitlam to Coquitlam. The official timetable state that it takes 18min for the 143 to get to Buruqitlam compared to 15min for 145 to get to Production. Both routes takes 13min off-peak, but keep in mind that the time on 143 will likely be longer if you include the extra time to go half a block south to reach the station.

As for wear and tear - the 143 is just a horrible route for the buses. The bus had to keep breaking going down SFU, and then driver had to slam on the break to stop and wait for the left turn at the bottom of the hill (whereas the 145 can just continue straight at high speed). It is very common for the bus to overheat at this point, and many times the driver have to shut down the bus and restart (missing 1 or even 2 light cycles in the process). Immediately after the turn, driver have to apply full power to the bus to drive up the hill on Como Lake - sometimes in stop-and-go traffic for more than 10 minutes. And then the bus may overheat again and the driver had to do another restart. This wear and tear is much much worse than the 145.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by officedweller

See the track routing diagram on the previous page.
People don't like that trains have to cross in front of each other to arrive at their assigned station platorms.

That's what I thought was the issue, but I thought I was missing something because it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a passenger heading westbound on the Millennium Line would then cross the platform and continue on their journey on an Evergreen Line train that pulls into the station on the standard right-hand-side of the platform (technically the middle track). For westbound passengers on the Evergreen Line, they could cross the same platform and board an eastbound Millennium Line train as it reverses. The eastbound Evergreen Line passenger wishing to continue further on the Millennium line has to take a walk from the third platform to the main platform, but that strikes me as a smaller cohort than the alternative patterns of ridership.

[jsbertram]

Start of Tunnel Boring Operations

Assembly of the tunnel boring machine (TBM) is complete and crews will now begin construction of the two kilometre tunnel from Port Moody to Coquitlam. Tunnel boring operations will begin in mid-March and will take approximately one year to complete.

Bored tunnel construction means there is no disruption to the surface above, with the exception of the tunnel entry and exit points. There will only be a single bored tunnel with a concrete wall between the tracks to separate trains travelling in opposite directions. A single tunnel will allow EGRT Construction to complete the overall project on schedule by the summer of 2016.

more details:
http://egrtconstruction.ca/media-centre/news/start-of-tunnel-boring-operations/

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

That's what I thought was the issue, but I thought I was missing something because it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a passenger heading westbound on the Millennium Line would then cross the platform and continue on their journey on an Evergreen Line train that pulls into the station on the standard right-hand-side of the platform (technically the middle track). For westbound passengers on the Evergreen Line, they could cross the same platform and board an eastbound Millennium Line train as it reverses. The eastbound Evergreen Line passenger wishing to continue further on the Millennium line has to take a walk from the third platform to the main platform, but that strikes me as a smaller cohort than the alternative patterns of ridership.

The concern is more about the potential for delays due to all the switching involved, but with automation, short trains and dwell times, that's probably a minor issue.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Admission time: I have no clear idea what the issue is with Lougheed Station. Could someone please explain the configuration with the simplicity they would use when explaining it to a parent or a non-transit/non-technical co-worker?

I've followed the Evergreen Line closely and I am 75% sure that I understand the configuration, but I also trust that the people on this forum have solid ground for being frustrated with the final design. So help me out: what's the issue?

I would start with:

North Platform (under construction)
Middle Platform (used today by Millennium trains heading west to VCC)
South Platform (used today by Millennium trains heading east to Waterfront via Braid and New West)


When Evergreen Line is finished:

North Platform (Evergreen trains heading east to Douglas College)
Middle Platform (Evergreen trains heading west to VCC)
South Platform (Terminal for Millennium trains from Braid; the next trip is east to Vancouver Waterfront via Braid and New West)


Middle and South platforms share the same passenger waiting area.
North platform is a separate passenger waiting area.

Any transfer between the Middle / South platforms and the North platform will require a down & up shuffle through the Station Houses (aka fare control areas) on the east and west ends of the station.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

See the track routing diagram on the previous page.
People don't like that trains have to cross in front of each other to arrive at their assigned station platorms.

I'm don't care how a train gets there - just show up on time at the proper platform.

Track switching &tc before arriving or after leaving is usually ignored by the masses, as long as the train gets them where they want to go, how it is done doesn't matter to the 99% - including me.