Sports in Canadian culture - Page 56

VANRIDERFAN · #**1101** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 1:21 AM**

I play on an over 40 soccer team here on Vancouver Island. My teammates talk EPL, Canucks, Roughriders (because of me and one other Saskie on the team) Lions/Seahawks and their kids sports in that order. MLS is rarely mentioned.

FYI the powerhouse High School Football team for BC is Mt Douglas High School here in Victoria. There is also a fairly vibrant jr and minor football program here as well. Soccer, Rugby, Lacross are pretty dominant with large youth participation (I'll include girls field hockey as well).

Victoria Royals (Major Junior Hockey WHL) are hoping to get a boost because the knucleheads are so crappy this year. (I think the costs of getting to Vancouver have priced the NHL out of most islanders budgets anyway)

But all this is just my observations. I have no idea of the reality.

Acajack · #**1102** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 1:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't know how things are out east, but football must surely be close to an all-time high in western Canada. There are more amateur leagues for kids and teenagers than I ever remember there being when I was younger. The high school leagues are huge with way more participation than before. Football is not suffering in these parts. I understand it's still in growth mode in Quebec too.

Yes, football continues to grow rapidly as both a participant and spectator sport in Quebec.

What is astonishing about it when you look at all the good CIS players being produced by Quebec in recent years is that almost no one plays it here until you are 13-14 years old. Very few cities, towns or suburbs in Quebec have organized minor football leagues (similar to minor hockey or little league) for kids who aren't in high school yet. So most players really start playing it for the first time when they enter high school. It's then strong at both the CEGEP (junior college) and university levels.

For younger kids soccer is pretty dominant as a summer sport. Many of my kids' friends play soccer and this usually continues into their teen years. The kids who end up playing football aren't usually soccer players who converted to football - often they are boys who never played organized team sports at all before. Little league baseball still has a pulse but is fading fast.

For winter team sports hockey is totally dominant and unthreatened. There is no noticeable decline in popularity there.

Basketball is played but it is not particularly well organized. It's more akin to volleyball in most other parts of the country.

Acajack · #**1103** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 1:47 AM**

As far as sports talk is concerned there are no signs of hockey declining anywhere in Quebec. This includes Montreal and across basically all demographics there.

As far as second place goes as I have sometimes said here it's pretty much a tie between the Alouettes and the Impact.

I suspect the Impact has a younger and more diverse fan base though. Certainly with elementary school kids the Impact would be ahead because more of them play soccer. In my workplace I have two colleagues (at opposite ends of the office) who have pictures in their offices of their kids with Impact players taken at Saputo.

But men my age (35-45) talk more about the Alouettes.

esquire · #**1104** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 2:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Little league baseball still has a pulse but is fading fast.

I get the impression that baseball has really faded from the national consciousness generally over the past 20 years or so. Back in their World Series days, it seemed as though the Blue Jays were discussed in Winnipeg (and I'm sure other cities) as though they were a home team... the players were practically household names in the way that Jets or Bombers at the time might have been. Little league and higher-level amateur baseball was a bigger deal too.

These days you sure don't hear a ton of pro baseball talk around town, and from what I can tell it looks like registration for amateur baseball must be down... I sure don't hear of many friends' kids playing it (as compared to soccer), nor do I see it being played much at the ball diamonds in my area. The pro teams still have their base of loyal fans, but it isn't quite what it used to be.

isaidso · #**1105** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Soccer participation is huge here, much bigger than football, but participation and cultural popularity are different. I didn't even know soccer was so popular in Toronto, my post is based mostly on people I've talked to who seem convinced that soccer will overthrow everything else. I mean come on, is TFC really gonna replace the Leafs as the talk of the town? I have lots of friends who play soccer in leagues, but none of them watch it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I haven't picked up on any sort of obsession with soccer in Toronto... I always got the impression that it is reasonably popular because of the large immigrant population that plays or follows teams from the old country, as well as the contingent of TFC fans, but it doesn't seem like anything approaching what I'd regard as an obsessive level.

I agree with both of you, but sense that the sport has reached a point in Toronto where the tide has turned. The hockey establishment in Toronto have their head's in the sand. They think fortress hockey is impregnable, but they're just not paying attention. Soccer will move from something people play as kids to something they discuss and follow as an adult. Wait a generation and it will topple hockey.

When that happens, the mainstream national media will start calling soccer 'football' because Toronto says so. They already do that every 4 years on cue when the WC is on.

Acajack · #**1106** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

I agree with both of you, but sense that the sport has reached a point in Toronto where the tide has turned. It will move from something people play as kids to something they discuss and follow as an adult. Wait a generation and it will topple hockey. The hockey establishment in Toronto have their head's in the sand. They think fortress hockey is impregnable, but they're just not paying attention.

I am not sure about toppling hockey even in Toronto (though it is possible I guess) but certainly as far as something people follow and discuss as adults, I think that is already taking place to some degree even here where I live and we are far from having the immigrant population that was born with soccer that Toronto does.

I know it's only every four years but during the World Cup it is already by far the most common topic of sports conversation here.

isaidso · #**1107** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:35 AM**

It will be mental here in a few months. Regarding hockey? If the young generation in Toronto aren't interested in it, what hope is there for it remaining #1 a generation from now?

Welkin · #**1108** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Could it be that something else is brewing with respect to the NFL in Toronto and that this is simply clearing the way for it?

That whole series was so embarassing for the NFL that they are not walking away from Toronto; they are running away as fast as they can. BTW, London has already sold out the next three NFL games (90,000 seats per game) and Toronto can't draw 35,000.

VANRIDERFAN · #**1109** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welkin

That whole series was so embarassing for the NFL that they are not walking away from Toronto; they are running away as fast as they can. BTW, London has already sold out the next three NFL games (90,000 seats per game) and Toronto can't draw 35,000.

Ironically I think it was Toronto's abandonment of the Argos that has caused the NFL to look elsewhere. If the Skydome was sold out for every Argo game and there was a healthy season ticket base the NFL would have given TO a serious look. They would have seen that there was proof of a healthy football culture in the region. One only has to look at how quick the NFL returned to Baltimore when they saw the support the CFL Stallions received in that region.

So Torontonians and their media cohorts have only themselves to blame for the death of the NFL in Toronto dream.

esquire · #**1110** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not sure about toppling hockey even in Toronto (though it is possible I guess) but certainly as far as something people follow and discuss as adults, I think that is already taking place to some degree even here where I live and we are far from having the immigrant population that was born with soccer that Toronto does.

I know it's only every four years but during the World Cup it is already by far the most common topic of sports conversation here.

I don't know about SK and AB but in Manitoba, the World Cup is still largely the domain of immigrant communities... you will see Portgual flags flying from nearly every piece of construction equipment in town. But from what I can tell, not that many people without those ethnic connections seem to get into it, other than maybe the stuff white people like crowd.

Welkin · #**1111** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 4:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Ironically I think it was Toronto's abandonment of the Argos that has caused the NFL to look elsewhere. If the Skydome was sold out for every Argo game and there was a healthy season ticket base the NFL would have given TO a serious look. They would have seen that there was proof of a healthy football culture in the region. One only has to look at how quick the NFL returned to Baltimore when they saw the support the CFL Stallions received in that region.

So Torontonians and their media cohorts have only themselves to blame for the death of the NFL in Toronto dream.

Actually it might have had more to do with the new state-of-the-art stadium Baltimore offered Art Modell, after the city of Cleveland turned him down in his request for new upgrades for the Browns stadium. Ironically, after Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore, the city of Cleveland found funding for a new NFL stadium for the expansion Cleveland Browns.

VANRIDERFAN · #**1112** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 4:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welkin

Actually it might have had more to do with the new state-of-the-art stadium Baltimore offered Art Modell, after the city of Cleveland turned him down in his request for new upgrades for the Browns stadium. Ironically, after Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore, the city of Cleveland found funding for a new NFL stadium for the expansion Cleveland Browns.

That may be true, but it is still my firm belief that the NFL would have looked more favourably at Toronto if the region had displayed an insaitiable appetite for football.

Welkin · #**1113** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 4:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

That may be true, but it is still my firm belief that the NFL would have looked more favourably at Toronto if the region had displayed an insaitiable appetite for football.

Oh I agree with you on that 100%. We have done nothing to show the NFL that we had any interest in a team. All we did was waste on old man's money.

Welkin · #**1114** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 4:24 AM**

I think soccer is exploding because it is a great sport for kids. It is cheap and easy to put together a youth league plus it is great excercise. I think it is a wonderful sport for our youth. However, youth activity does not translate into TV viewerships, merchandise sales, or growth in professional teams. I was down in Atlanta recently and there are thousands and thousands of kids playing soccer in every park and field I saw. Despite this activity and a population of over 5 million, Atlanta cannot generate enough interest for the start of a MLS franchise. Again, thousands and thousands of kids growing up playing soccer who end up cheering for the NFL Falcons when they get older. It will be no different in Toronto except all these soccer kids will be cheering on the Leafs when they become adults.

GlassCity · #**1115** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 6:05 AM**

I'm still not convinced. Kids have been playing soccer for generations now yet I don't see much growth. Obviously the Whitecaps entering the MLS has helped soccer here, but I really don't see why the kids playing soccer now will like it better than those that played it 30 years ago. The Canucks, Lions and Whitecaps get nearly equal coverage in media, but the Canucks is really the only guarantee water-cooler topic of the three.

Also, I don't know if you guys consider me in the young people segment (I'm 18) but I've literally only heard maybe once or twice people around my age talking about soccer. It goes Canucks, NFL and then everything else is rarely mentioned. So I'm not sure that your predictions that young people like soccer is true.

Acajack · #**1116** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 1:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I'm still not convinced. Kids have been playing soccer for generations now yet I don't see much growth. Obviously the Whitecaps entering the MLS has helped soccer here, but I really don't see why the kids playing soccer now will like it better than those that played it 30 years ago. The Canucks, Lions and Whitecaps get nearly equal coverage in media, but the Canucks is really the only guarantee water-cooler topic of the three.

Also, I don't know if you guys consider me in the young people segment (I'm 18) but I've literally only heard maybe once or twice people around my age talking about soccer. It goes Canucks, NFL and then everything else is rarely mentioned. So I'm not sure that your predictions that young people like soccer is true.

Not even during the World Cup?

Acajack · #**1117** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 1:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't know about SK and AB but in Manitoba, the World Cup is still largely the domain of immigrant communities... you will see Portgual flags flying from nearly every piece of construction equipment in town. But from what I can tell, not that many people without those ethnic connections seem to get into it, other than maybe the stuff white people like crowd.

In Quebec and Ontario (especially in the cities), interest in the World Cup has definitely spilled over from the traditional soccer base in the immigrant communities.

I would venture to say that overall there is quite a bit more generalized interest in it when it is on than the World Series, March Madness, and it may even be equal to a Stanley Cup final between two non-Original 6 American teams (provided there is no local star player involved).

It's at that level. (Others may correct me if they think I am wrong but this is my perception.)

GlassCity · #**1118** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not even during the World Cup?

Nope. I don't mean to sound immature, and I'm sure it's different in other neighbourhoods, but from my experience soccer isn't a very "cool" sport.

Acajack · #**1119** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Nope. I don't mean to sound immature, and I'm sure it's different in other neighbourhoods, but from my experience soccer isn't a very "cool" sport.

That's not immature at all. Just your honest observation.

kirjtc2 · #**1120** Posted **Mar 11, 2014, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

So Torontonians and their media cohorts have only themselves to blame for the death of the NFL in Toronto dream.

I get the sense that Montreal or Vancouver would support the NFL better than Toronto. They at least care about their CFL teams.

If the Big O wasn't falling apart or BC Place had 10K more seats, I could see it happening easily.