PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II - Page 383

Austinlee · #**7641** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 1:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Austin, where are you seeing 2013 data??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Austin: That Allegheny County estimate is for 2012... and the Beaver County numbers are reversed... it is still declining (slowly) as of the most recent estimate (2012).

The Beaver County population loss "slowed to a trickle" between the census.gov estimates between 2010-2013 estimates. If you do the math that pop loss was down to 200 odd residents per year between 2010-2012 one could ascertain that the 2013/2014 numbers registers a growth. God, I thought you people were good with mathematical calculations.

Also, anecdotal evidence from myself showing homes in the many, many new construction developments of $250-$500+ neighborhoods confirmed it for me.

BC has been rapidly becoming a bedroom community for years now for the high paying job clusters.

Austinlee · #**7642** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 1:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

There have also been heavy pushes in the past for bringing the W (and their aLoft concept) both to Pittsburgh. The W was going to slot into Oakland near CMU, I believe. aLoft was supposed to go into the SouthSide Works.

The Southside Works: The place decent midrise infill of apartments & condos goes to get drastically downsized.

Minivan Werner · #**7643** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 2:46 AM**

The Parkway Mall site should be treated as a brownfield and completely leveled and turned into a new urban neighborhood with mid-rises, town homes, streets, parks and all. Really no shopping center or mall would suffice in that location.

eschaton · #**7644** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 3:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The reason for my prediction wasn't really tied closely to the current built form. One big driver is going to be energy and transportation costs, and changing norms about commuting. Another is that as a lot of suburbs/exurbs age, they are going to run into the same sorts of depreciation/disinvestment/legacy cost problems as central areas have gone through.

In other words--location, location, location. Things like crime rates, depreciated housing stock, poor municipal services, lack of local retail--all that is fixable, and in fact can be fixed very quickly, at least if there is money to be made. But you can't fix being miles and miles of highway away from the main jobs and amenity clusters.

But everywhere in the arc from Carnegie to McKees Rocks is around as close or closer to Downtown as Squirrel Hill. At some point, that is going to end up being determinative, although precisely when is admittedly anyone's guess.

I understand your point, but as you allude in the last paragraph, it will probably be a long time before demand is high enough in Pittsburgh to ensure that all neighborhoods close to Downtown are desirable. considering there's still plenty of prime areas to go around.

It also doesn't deal with the issue that Oakland alone has around 1/3rd of the jobs Downtown does, as well as of course housing two major universities and most of the premier city amenities. Hell, Oakland was originally built up to replace Downtown Pittsburgh in the early 20th century. Thus Pittsburgh has been "eastward facing" for quite some time - something I don't see changing much in the near future.

I really wish this forum had a place for general city discussion, even if just on one thread, because discussing the fates of various neighborhoods is important to development, but a bit off-topic in this particular thread.

BrianTH · #**7645** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 4:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I would imagine that some of these chains are taking note of both the Fairmont and Ace arriving, right?

It seems to me the fundamental question would be how is the Fairmont doing here, and does its performance suggest there would be a market for another 4-star (or even 5-star) hotel? Because if the potential demand is there, then sooner or later some hotel will meet that need (not necessarily in this building, but somehow).

BrianTH · #**7646** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 4:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton

I understand your point, but as you allude in the last paragraph, it will probably be a long time before demand is high enough in Pittsburgh to ensure that all neighborhoods close to Downtown are desirable. considering there's still plenty of prime areas to go around.

Development can spread before all the "prime areas" are used up, however, in large part because "prime" property owners raise the cost of entry. NIMBYism can also play a role, and so on.

Anyway, given how pointless a shopping center would be, I'd be happy to give it quite a while to see what happens.

Austinlee · #**7647** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 6:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton

I understand your point, but as you allude in the last paragraph, it will probably be a long time before demand is high enough in Pittsburgh to ensure that all neighborhoods close to Downtown are desirable. considering there's still plenty of prime areas to go around.

It also doesn't deal with the issue that Oakland alone has around 1/3rd of the jobs Downtown does, as well as of course housing two major universities and most of the premier city amenities. Hell, Oakland was originally built up to replace Downtown Pittsburgh in the early 20th century. Thus Pittsburgh has been "eastward facing" for quite some time - something I don't see changing much in the near future.

I really wish this forum had a place for general city discussion, even if just on one thread, because discussing the fates of various neighborhoods is important to development, but a bit off-topic in this particular thread.

Make one bro. This is a DIY website. Put it under "City Discussions" and label is something along the lines of "Pittsburgh news and city discussion" because undoubtedly many of the posts will be links to various newspaper articles.

But I agree, this thread is best to stick to construction and renovation stories to stay relevant which it has been pretty damn successful at keeping up.
Cheers.

Private Dick · #**7648** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 6:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I don't think Chicago has an Ace Hotel either.

I would imagine that some of these chains are taking note of both the Fairmont and Ace arriving, right?

I would think that is the case.

It's so cool that East Liberty is getting an Ace hotel and Indigo within a couple blocks -- they should really help to dramatically alter the area north of Penn.

The Ace brand fits Pittsburgh well right now... with all the "Portland of the East" descriptions (which is annoying to me... Pittsburgh is so much cooler than Portland).

Austinlee · #**7649** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Dick

The Ace brand fits Pittsburgh well right now... with all the "Portland of the East" descriptions (which is annoying to me... Pittsburgh is so much cooler than Portland).

Hear hear!

I kind of get the feeling that Portland, OR is where Californian's go when they "cash out" from their huge home price increases to get more house for their money and shorter commutes and cheaper cost of living.

BrianTH · #**7650** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 12:50 AM**

Possible sale of Cork Factory could help encourage further investment in larger-scale apartment projects:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...buyer-emerges-for-the-cork.html?page=all

Austinlee · #**7651** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 3:35 AM**

So what do our esteemed forumers here think about the possible political team of Tom Wolf as governor along with the Peduto and Fitzgerald? Seems like a pretty potent combination to me. I'm feeling hopeful.

BrianTH · #**7652** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 3:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

So what do our esteemed forumers here think about the possible political team of Tom Wolf as governor along with the Peduto and Fitzgerald?

Certainly couldn't hurt to have the City, County, and State all being run by political allies.

eschaton · #**7653** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 4:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Possible sale of Cork Factory could help encourage further investment in larger-scale apartment projects:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...buyer-emerges-for-the-cork.html?page=all

I'm not sure I understand why they'd want to sell, and someone else would want to buy. Those parcels have been upgraded/built out very recently, and it would make no sense to demo and build something with an even higher-intensity land use. The current owners would just be walking away from a constant revenue source. And the new owners presumably will need to find some way to boost revenue to deal with the acquisition costs. Vacancies are already very low, so that means raising rents. I suppose a more savvy marketing plan could make the complex more desirable, but that still would mean throwing further expenses at the development in hopes of further revenue.

BrianTH · #**7654** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 5:02 PM**

It sounds like the buyers are just looking to add a nice property in Pittsburgh to their portfolio, and the sellers would of course be getting a nice chunk of money, which they could either distribute or use for another project.

SkyPittsburgh · #**7655** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 9:16 PM**

I took a walk into East Liberty today and was able to snap a few photos from the hotel development in the area.

Nice development at the Ace Hotel, they've removed all the windows and placed a garbage chute in one of the windows.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3ZQr506ByTCcElpUEFkd2FvdDg/edit

This is the Hotel Indigo. (bad angle, I know) It looks like they've got the hotel to the final height, but a long way to go.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3ZQr506ByTCYlEtUEhtdDdqclU/edit

ks2006 · #**7656** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 9:20 PM**

I would think that the Union Trust building would be a good candidate for the mixed hotel/residence concept. This has been a trend for a decade or so in large US cities but I don't know if Pittsburgh has any?

For example, a Ritz Carlton property functions as both hotel and condos, with condo residents sharing some of the hotel amenities and services with guests. That would reduce the risk of the property having sustainability problems since it has built in revenue from condos.

Evergrey · #**7657** Posted **Mar 10, 2014, 1:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ks2006

I would think that the Union Trust building would be a good candidate for the mixed hotel/residence concept. This has been a trend for a decade or so in large US cities but I don't know if Pittsburgh has any?

For example, a Ritz Carlton property functions as both hotel and condos, with condo residents sharing some of the hotel amenities and services with guests. That would reduce the risk of the property having sustainability problems since it has built in revenue from condos.

Three PNC