Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[MalcolmTucker]

Without the second bow crossing iirc it is 34 km of expressway with 5 systems level interchanges, a big hill cut, a river realignment and bridging, a second fish creek crossing, and a whole whack of interchanges.

Some parts will likely start with more than 2 lanes in each direction as well iirc.

But yeah, sticker shock when I first heard that number for sure, but when you look at all the different parts of this, it is in line with what the province has done recently. It is an important project for our city to have when you think of the growth that may happen.

Just remember when you're comparing it to potential alternatives (not to meet the same need of course), if this isn't done, it is never (path dependent like the airport tunnel), and that the project is going to be amortized, so it isn't a big chunk out of the budget all at once.

[Black Star]

Wow....With that statement Mr H has just confirmed himself as a “oxygen thief.”

There is no way this Govt will ever be credible. Its almost...Putinish!!!!

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[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

The Stoney Trail bridge over the bow in the NW is 2 lanes in each direction. The ultimate stage of the road would see a second bridge built, one for each direction at 4 lanes. I have been told that this will be done along with the SW work.



The Herald is reporting 41km. The route itself is the 30ish km, but there is also the Glenmore work between Sarcee and 37th street (9 lanes!), the Southland and 90th extensions etc, the extra interchange at Glenmore/37th etc.

And you remember correctly: most of the SW portion (at least the reserve portion) is starting with 8 lanes, at least according to the opening day plans. (not to mention that the earthworks for the 16-lane stage were originally slated to be completed at the same time as the opening stage construction)

Fish Creek is also slated to be realigned, and I suspect that there will have to be extra measures regarding UXO along the route.

It's such a massive project.

What a terrible idea. Not only will this (and realigning the Elbow river) be expensive as hell, it will destroy the surrounding Eco system and ultimately pose a very serious risk the next time we have a flood. In light of what happened this summer I find it amazing they are still pushing ahead with this idea.

[Socguy]

I'm not against it, I believe that the ecological issues can be mitigated to a large degree with proper planning and execution. Here in the deep SW there is a tremendous need for the thing. I predict this road will see MASSIVE use starting from day 1.

For me, the biggest downside will be the explosion of city growth around this road.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Socguy

For me, the biggest downside will be the explosion of city growth around this road.

Growth in the city proper should be in 14 upa or higher range, while in surrounding communities it will be in the 8 or maybe it is 10 upa guidance given by the Calgary Regional Partnership. Plus Rocky View County isn't in the mood to approve revenue negative developments at the moment.

For other projects that need to get done the SWRR is an important example: due to accounting principles the road isn't counted as an expense, but as acquiring an asset, one that doesn't depreciate for 30 years since a P3 requires it to be turned over in as close to day one condition as can be expected. (from an market value point of view the road would likely appreciate, as traffic volumes rise)

Could the Green Line end up as a provincial asset delivered P3 where the province turns over the line to the city after the P3 period, while the city pays the operation and maintenance portion of the agreement? If it makes things easier for the budget, makes sense to me.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

From Twitter: Scott Dippel ‏@CBCScott 2h

Finance minister Doug Horner confirms ballpark figure govt is using for the SW ring road is $5 billion. #yyc #cbc

Is everyone along the route getting massive amounts of baksheesh, what about the spotted owls?

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

What a terrible idea. Not only will this (and realigning the Elbow river) be expensive as hell, it will destroy the surrounding Eco system and ultimately pose a very serious risk the next time we have a flood. In light of what happened this summer I find it amazing they are still pushing ahead with this idea.

Regulations regarding waterways are tight enough that I really doubt flooding is going to be significantly worse or better from a realignment of Fish Creek or the Elbow. There will be plenty of things built in to the design to prevent that very thing from happening. Fish Creek took quite a beating in 2013 on its own.

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

The Stoney Trail bridge over the bow in the NW is 2 lanes in each direction. The ultimate stage of the road would see a second bridge built, one for each direction at 4 lanes. I have been told that this will be done along with the SW work.



The Herald is reporting 41km. The route itself is the 30ish km, but there is also the Glenmore work between Sarcee and 37th street (9 lanes!), the Southland and 90th extensions etc, the extra interchange at Glenmore/37th etc.

And you remember correctly: most of the SW portion (at least the reserve portion) is starting with 8 lanes, at least according to the opening day plans. (not to mention that the earthworks for the 16-lane stage were originally slated to be completed at the same time as the opening stage construction)

Fish Creek is also slated to be realigned, and I suspect that there will have to be extra measures regarding UXO along the route.

It's such a massive project.

I am wondering if with the completion of the full system interchange at Stoney and the TCH, how far west will work on the TCH go? Will that include a rebuild of the Valley Ridge - Crestmont interchange? (It should!)

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Oliver Klozov

I am wondering if with the completion of the full service interchange at Stoney and the TCH, how far west will work on the TCH go? Will that include a rebuild of the Valley Ridge - Crestmont interchange? (It should!)

Looking at the AB Transportation webpage, it does appear the approaches on Valley Ridge interchange get redone as part of the southwest ring road project. check out the link to PDF map: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType490/production/Board1OH3.pdf

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by Cage

Looking at the AB Transportation webpage, it does appear the approaches on Valley Ridge interchange get redone as part of the southwest ring road project. check out the link to PDF map: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType490/production/Board1OH3.pdf

Looking at that map - definitely.

I was looking for that map and found this. It appears they intend to split the work into 2 P3 projects.

West Calgary Ring Road

Highway 1 to 69 Street

15 km of six-lane divided roadway
29 bridges
River bridge at the Bow River
River bridge at the Elbow River on Highway 8
7 interchanges:
Highway 1 systems interchange (partially constructed)
Old Banff Coach Road SW partial interchange
Bow Trail SW interchange
17 Avenue SW partial interchange
Highway 8 systems interchange
69 Street SW interchange
Valley Ridge Boulevard NW/Highway 1 interchange
2 Avenue SW underpass

SW Calgary Ring Road

69 Street to Macleod Trail/Highway 22X

26 km of six and eight-lane divided roadway
37 bridges
Crossings of Elbow River and Fish Creek
Rail flyover
13 interchanges:
Westhills Way SW interchange
Sarcee Trail SW interchange
Old Strathcona Road SW interchange
90 Avenue SW interchange
Anderson Road SW interchange
130 Avenue SW interchange
146 Avenue SW interchange
162 Avenue SW interchange
Stoney Trail/Highway 22X systems interchange
Spruce Meadows Way SW/James McKevitt Road SW interchange
Sheriff King Street SW/6 Street SW partial interchange
Macleod Trail SW interchange
37 Street SW/Glenmore Trail interchange

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Oliver Klozov

I am wondering if with the completion of the full system interchange at Stoney and the TCH, how far west will work on the TCH go? Will that include a rebuild of the Valley Ridge - Crestmont interchange? (It should!)

They should also look into the Bowfort Rd, COP interchange...

[5seconds]

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[mersar]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

That list is interesting as it includes a bridge over the Elbow river along Highway 8 as part of the West Ring Road project (in addition to the bridges proposed over the Elbow near the Weaselhead). The previous study areas seemed to end at 101st street SW and excluded that part of Highway 8 west of 101st street.

From my understanding that particular bridge suffered some damage from the 2013 floods, not enough to be an immediate concern but they've done some reinforcing already of the abutments, and is now on the 'needs significant refurbishment' list. So they probably decided to pull it into the WRR rather than do it separately and hope that it works out to be a better deal. Plus with the traffic volumes out that way it really needs to be twinned in the near future, which I wouldn't be surprised to be what happens (build a new bridge, then replace the existing). Of course if they do twin it it will go against the province's position on the traffic situation on highway 8 of late, being that its no where near capacity and needs nothing changed really.

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[Oliver Klozov]

Highway 8 systems interchange

Is this not an upgrade from earlier designs? I think it used to be just a regular interchange.

With that in mind, the inclusion of the Hwy 8 - Elbow River bridge would make sense as being required to make the "Systems Interchange" function properly. Something like the new southbound bridge over the CPR Keith yard being required to make the Nose Hill interchange function properly.

[5seconds]

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[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

From Twitter: Scott Dippel ‏@CBCScott 2h

Finance minister Doug Horner confirms ballpark figure govt is using for the SW ring road is $5 billion. #yyc #cbc

With 5billion the city could prob build the SE, North Central lines and the subway. How much use is this section of the ring road even going to get?

[srperrycgy]

Picked up my brand new car from the dealer this evening and after showing it off to the relatives, I went for a drive. Went down to Auburn Bay and came back on Stoney all the way 'round to 16th Ave NW. I hadn't been on the SE portion. Pretty decent drive, but they need to get the lines repainted on the SE bit. I know that's a seasonal thing, but still.

[RWin]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

With 5billion the city could prob build the SE, North Central lines and the subway. How much use is this section of the ring road even going to get?

I'll use it. At least if they build a decent interchange at 130th that allows you to go north or south.