Transit Fantasies

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by TransitFreak

Given the context here is Fantasy, I would love to see King George retrofitted to have additional guideways on the outside of the side platforms, essentially having two centre platforms, with 4 guideways...the current Expo line (at peak) could shuttle back and forth as usual, and the two outer guideways can handle the KG to Langley segment, to increase the frequency on this segment - remember, Expo line is constrained by having one of the train sets used for Millenium. This would provide consistent service in the Langley area, and you can use different train configurations (i.e. smaller trains) to feed the main expo line.

During non-peak, the trains can either run all the way through, or continue to use the shuttle concept. The outer guideways would now serve as the 'storage' tail track area that it currently uses, if the trains were to run straight through...

Those wanting to continue east of KG would just cross platform to the waiting train on the new guideway, and those wanting to continue to Vancouver would cross-platorm from the new guideway to the existing inbound platform...

This would allow true segmented service if required, and run different frequencies as required, as well as provide a clean separation for segmented service when the inevitable system issues occur...

Ha! I've actually thought about that exact same thing quite often.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by MIPS

A terminus at Horseshoe Bay would be amazing.

Quite possibly, the the NIMBY war you'd face - not because of the transit itself, but
because of increasing density and development - would bust your eardrums.

Nevertheless, this may come in time as large parcels of land are
subdivided, and properties renewed into apartments and condominiums.
But yes, the pax potential is there, especially if factoring in ferry foot traffic heading to Vancouver.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Just as there is the familiar West Coast Express serving Coquitlam and the north "slope" of the valley, I am sure that
there will ultimately be a call for a southern commuter route, linking metro to Langley, Abbotsford, and perhaps
Chilliwack in the long haul.
For this, LIM motors or not, I think a larger, but especially faster, transport material would be needed. The market has lots of choice.
But I think there'll be an amplification of the valley "commuter belt," and that will necessitate a second rail line. OK, if not "West Coast Express" type trains,
what type of vehicles would be optimal? It would seem frequency is the most desirable outcome, as suggested in the link posted by Officedweller.

The biggest issue I have with West Coast Express is it isn't really transit imo. It is commuter centric trains meaning it only runs for people going to and from work. My wife's colleagues at work who live in Maple Ridge for example but work downtown can rarely stay after work on Fridays to go out for dinner with the office or drinks because they miss that last WCE train and sorry, EXPRENSIVE taxi ride, or, they have to drive.

It serves 1 purpose, get people to and from downtown. But it isn't anything like SkyTrain which will actually let you live life. Even buses let you live life using transit. I can hop on the 96-B at 8pm and ride to Guildford to buy something from Walmart then back. I can hop SkyTrain at midnight downtown and head home.

So the question becomes do we need another commuter train option that only runs very finite times SoF out to Abbotsford/Chilliwack in the future? Or something a little different?

Personally I think a rail line (whatever technology) that ran between Surrey/Langley and Abbotsford Airport then center, would be a great addition in the future as via Transit, YVR from South of Fraser is still really really difficult outside of South Delta.

For example, anyone wanting to fly out of YVR on a Sunday in the morning from Surrey has no option other than to drive. Even though the Canada Line is open at 6am, Expo doesn't open until way later. Not to mention it takes 1.5 hours 1 way to get to YVR via transit and even before the SFPR, 45 minutes via car. I am sure a train line out to Abbotsford Airport from Surrey would be considerably faster than 1.5 hours so either that or improved access to YVR eventually.

[Bcasey25raptor]

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&...87&spn=0.334651,0.917358&z=11&dg=feature

I know this is old as it was the starting post. I really like this idea but it makes me think what a Vancouver of that system would be like.

I think Vancouver would have at least 5-10 million people to justify a transit system that large. Since it currently sits at 2.5 million unless you count the fraser valley (2.8 million). This skytrain system is amazing but would feel and look way out of place.

I did some very crude MS paint editing to convey what I think it would look like.

Population projection for the region with this transit set up is 6 million.

[Millennium2002]

Some of the lines (the maroon coloured one in particular) are too indirect and squiggly for my liking... and also, it'd require at least 5x the population of today for this to become seriously feasible.

[Pinion]

Would be pretty unfortunate to have a skytrain the length of Lonsdale but only stations at 3rd and 29th st. 13th to 17th is generally considered the centre of town.

Lonsdale/Mountain hwy are too steep anyway aren't they? Even up to 3rd seems like it would be a bit of a challenge.

Originally Posted by MIPS

A terminus at Horseshoe Bay would be amazing.

West Van wanted to have the entire upper levels highway in a tunnel through their turf when sea to sky was being updated. I can't imagine their reaction to skytrain.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Some of the lines (the maroon coloured one in particular) are too indirect and squiggly for my liking... and also, it'd require at least 5x the population of today for this to become seriously feasible.

I'd go first for the pale green line starting at Marpole, then up Arbutus, under False Creek and into downtown, where it could with link
the extended Expo Line, up along Hastings to SFU, then down to the M-line.

Equally, or even moreso, I'd like the see the upper Broadway/UBC Line built, though the extension east of
Lougheed TC needs to greatly increase on density before that happens.

Extending the UBC Line from Joyce west makes immediate sense, too, as a future investment.
There is Oakridge coming on stream, plus existing Kerrisdale plus increaing housing at UBC that may one day reach 40,000, I read somewhere.

(Your "circle line" downtown seems especially adept, too, IMHO)

[MIPS]

I can't imagine their reaction to skytrain.

Resorting to acts of sabotage.

[gkz]

I've tried to create a sort of realistic vision of Vancouver's Rapid Transit (Skytrain) network in 2050 - let me know what you think!

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=zZS43UGKhDGo.kyJD1KKTdMd4
(lines, stations, etc.)

Notes:
- Not all overlapping lines are shown - eg. M-Line overlap with Expo is not shown
- In City of Vancouver, ~50% middle class single family homes are being turned into medium density residential, with higher density near Skytrain lines
- B-Lines along King Edward, Tsawassen/Ladner/Richmond, White Rock to Surrey, Lonsdale to Trans Can Skytrain Station of Hastings Line via Iron Workers
- Granville Line twins the Canada Line, so every 4 trains coming out of Waterfront rotate both final destination (Richmond/YVR), and route (Granville/Cambie) - [The overlap, Waterfront, Vancouver City Centre, Marine Drive, and Bridgeport have super high frequency as they get all combinations!]
- Burnaby Mountain Gondola is completed, and SeaBus continues to run

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by gkz

I've tried to create a sort of realistic vision of Vancouver's Rapid Transit (Skytrain) network in 2050 - let me know what you think!

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=zZS43UGKhDGo.kyJD1KKTdMd4
(lines, stations, etc.)

Notes:
- Not all overlapping lines are shown - eg. M-Line overlap with Expo is not shown
- In City of Vancouver, ~50% middle class single family homes are being turned into medium density residential, with higher density near Skytrain lines
- B-Lines along King Edward, Tsawassen/Ladner/Richmond, White Rock to Surrey, Lonsdale to Trans Can Skytrain Station of Hastings Line via Iron Workers
- Granville Line twins the Canada Line, so every 4 trains coming out of Waterfront rotate both final destination (Richmond/YVR), and route (Granville/Cambie) - [The overlap, Waterfront, Vancouver City Centre, Marine Drive, and Bridgeport have super high frequency as they get all combinations!]
- Burnaby Mountain Gondola is completed, and SeaBus continues to run

Comprehensive and great: although I'd imagine that the line to the North Shore would be one Deep Dig...
(unless you have the idea of going surface through the park and over the LGB)

[theKB]

the only other thing I could see as part of the plan is a canadaline extension to tsawassen/south surrey although i could be wrong.

[gkz]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Comprehensive and great: although I'd imagine that the line to the North Shore would be one Deep Dig...
(unless you have the idea of going surface through the park and over the LGB)

The North Shore line would be underground through downtown and Stanley Park, and surface right before, and go over, a new or substantially upgraded Lions Gate Bridge.

Originally Posted by theKB

the only other thing I could see as part of the plan is a canadaline extension to tsawassen/south surrey although i could be wrong.

I just don't think that the population and density will be there to justify RRT to Tsawassen, unless the ALR significantly reduced.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by gkz

The North Shore line would be underground through downtown and Stanley Park, and surface right before, and go over, a new or substantially upgraded Lions Gate Bridge.

Could the LGB be double-decked?

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Could the LGB be double-decked?

By appearances, maybe.

But such a move isn't exactly cheaper than just twinning it or building a tunnel... A lot of engineering would have to be done to re-evaluate the structure and see how much extra weight it can hold up and/or what areas have to be reinforced before double-decking happens.

[jbrizzy]

You somehow left out 29th on your map, btw. But I like the idea of a north shore line using the stanley park route as there's much less water for it to cross/go under, plus it also adds stations in coal harbour and the park itself. Could be extended all the to phibs and then up to capilano too.

[gkz]

Originally Posted by jbrizzy

You somehow left out 29th on your map, btw. But I like the idea of a north shore line using the stanley park route as there's much less water for it to cross/go under, plus it also adds stations in coal harbour and the park itself. Could be extended all the to phibs and then up to capilano too.

Fixed thanks.

And yes, in the future it could be extended to Phibbs Exchange, and then over a new/upgraded Ironworkers Bridge and continue to the Cassiar stop of the Hastings line.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Could the LGB be double-decked?

When Guinus built the LGB to access their British Properties they made it as cheap as possible which means as light as possible. Unfortunately there would be no allowances for additional weight. They could raise it to allow for the newest class of cruise ships though. That would be wild to watch.

[officedweller]

When the Lions Gate Bridge was being renovated in the early 1990s, one option (before the decision was made to maintain only 3 lanes) was to replace the deck with a double decker one. In order to do so, the towers would have had to have been heightened with additions to support the extra load, but it was feasible.

Found this through Google:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/tape15/PQDD_0019/MQ37484.pdf.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by officedweller

When the Lions Gate Bridge was being renovated in the early 1990s, one option (before the decision was made to maintain only 3 lanes) was to replace the deck with a double decker one. In order to do so, the towers would have had to have been heightened with additions to support the extra load, but it was feasible.

Found this through Google:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/tape15/PQDD_0019/MQ37484.pdf.

I can only imagine that the heritage advocates would be harping mad over any kind of unnecessary structural modifications to the existing bridge (even if to support heavier loads).

[WBC]

Has anybody ever examined an option of running some sort of gondola system from Sea Bus up the hill (along Lonsdale) and eventually towards Lynn Valley?