Rapid Transit - Page 112

flar · #**2221** Posted **Mar 7, 2014, 2:25 PM**

The only reason BRT works in Ottawa is because of the dedicated transitway. Buses can go 90km/h and there are very few stops. Bus lanes are not the same thing. You will never have BRT in Hamilton as long as the buses are on city streets.

Ottawa's BRT system completely breaks down when it reaches the core and buses are forced onto city streets. That's why they're tunneling. Currently it looks like this:

markbarbera · #**2222** Posted **Mar 7, 2014, 8:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

LRT is one piece of the puzzle. We should not be aiming for a state-of-the-art transit system for one part of the city, and what we have now for the rest. We should be doing better everywhere.

This.

coalminecanary · #**2223** Posted **Mar 7, 2014, 8:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

This.

Perhaps you missed this:

coalminecanary · #**2224** Posted **Mar 7, 2014, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

Ottawa's BRT system completely breaks down when it reaches the core and buses are forced onto city streets. That's why they're tunneling. Currently it looks like this:

Great, I can see our BRT now: 20 buses idling at King and James...

markbarbera · #**2225** Posted **Mar 7, 2014, 11:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Perhaps you missed this:

Perhaps you missed the timelines in grey area in the left margin, where three of those lines in the catchy BLAST acronym have targeted timelines of 25 years or more. State of the art everywhere... after three generations have passed.

In the meantime bus routes meant to feed the A-Line and B-line languish. The very basic requirement of delivering weekend service to bus routes running in the south end of the city is deferred once again. How can you sell an urgent need for a downtown LRT to all citizens of the city while denying even the most basic transit service to such a large segment of the city? How do you expect to change the car-centric mentality of the citizenry under these conditions?

It is foolhardy to committ to LRT (or any higher order transit solution) without committing to a simultaneous improvement to the rest of the public transit system. Which is the point I believe HillStreetBlues was trying to make that I wanted to reinforce by quoting.

MalcolmTucker · #**2226** Posted **Mar 7, 2014, 11:20 PM**

How much of the A-Line could be cut if it didn't serve the airport? Airports are really hard to serve with transit given their spread out natures, both in density and trip demand.

Beedok · #**2227** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 12:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Perhaps you missed the timelines in grey area in the left margin, where three of those lines in the catchy BLAST acronym have targeted timelines of 25 years or more. State of the art everywhere... after three generations have passed.

In 25 years Hamilton will be somewhere around the million mark. That BLAST network is well beyond the C-Train network Calgary has at 1.2 million. Considering Calgary is an over achiever today aiming to beat them proportionately in 25 years will probably put Hamilton at least middle of the pack if not in the upper tier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

It is foolhardy to committ to LRT (or any higher order transit solution) without committing to a simultaneous improvement to the rest of the public transit system. Which is the point I believe HillStreetBlues was trying to make that I wanted to reinforce by quoting.

Yes, if you can't do everything right than how dare you spend money doing part of it right. Even if it is only partially actually coming out of your budget and will be freeing up buses to do the other bits better.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**2228** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 12:55 AM**

Worst discussion ever. This forum is worse than council.

thistleclub · #**2229** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 5:25 PM**

New Metrolinx PSA features a cameo from Bombardier's Flexity Freedom LRT in the corporate colourway.

Beedok · #**2230** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Worst discussion ever. This forum is worse than council.

At least it means we have a diversity of opinions.

HillStreetBlues · #**2231** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 12:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

...and will be freeing up buses to do the other bits better...

Really good point. When LRT displaces buses along the B Line, those buses can be deployed to other routes.

Would it be more interesting for Beedok and markbarbera to argue with each other over who loves LRT more?

markbarbera wasn't saying he's not supportive of LRT. I think (I don't want to speak for anyone) he's seeing people get caught up in the excitement of it, and not paying sufficient attention to the improvement of the entire network.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**2232** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 1:37 AM**

^Oh stop it. There are certain people on this forum whose whole modus operandi is to create division where there isn't any - arguing for the sake of argument. It's embarrassing.

HillStreetBlues · #**2233** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 1:49 AM**

The way I saw it, the two of them were exchanging a few opinions (and I enjoyed reading some comparisons of Hamilton's situation with Ottawa and Calgary, for instance), and then you were telling them to shut up because the discussion isn't exactly what you want it to be. In other words, because somebody, I guess, said something with which you didn't agree.

Why don't you, specifically, tell us what is so embarassing? And then we can all avoid creating division.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**2234** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 5:28 AM**

Perfectly stated. That is precisely what happened. You, sir, are the voice of reason.

Beedok · #**2235** Posted **Mar 9, 2014, 1:18 PM**

All I said was that it was too bad Hamilton couldn't build a better system without super expensive tunneling.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**2236** Posted **Mar 10, 2014, 12:14 AM**

^Nobody's arguing with you, Beedok.

Jon Dalton · #**2237** Posted **Mar 10, 2014, 1:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

The only reason BRT works in Ottawa is because of the dedicated transitway. Buses can go 90km/h and there are very few stops. Bus lanes are not the same thing. You will never have BRT in Hamilton as long as the buses are on city streets.

Ottawa's BRT system completely breaks down when it reaches the core and buses are forced onto city streets. That's why they're tunneling. Currently it looks like this:

What I remember about the one time I was using transit in Ottawa was that you cannot use the bike racks on the transitway buses. I went to put the bike rack down and the driver honked and scared the crap out of me. I got it - the buses get so damn close together that there isn't room for the bike racks.

The bus drivers are also very aggressive there which while it's nice to see transit getting a higher priority, it make for a loud and unsettling experience as a pedestrian or cyclist. I could see this as an acceptable tradeoff for better transit, but that is if buses are the only option. LRT has none of these shortcomings.

Beedok · #**2238** Posted **Mar 10, 2014, 1:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

^Nobody's arguing with you, Beedok.

Oh, okay. I was confused.

ScreamingViking · #**2239** Posted **Mar 10, 2014, 2:01 AM**

Maybe there should have been a tunneling alternative for downtown - it would make the cost of the B-Line surface option seem more affordable.

(I'm joking... mostly

)

Dr Awesomesauce · #**2240** Posted **Mar 10, 2014, 11:40 AM**

^True.

Speaking of tunnels, I do recall one being part of the plan for the A-line.