PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Muckk]

Originally Posted by photoLith

The Gardens construction is coming along too now.

When you took this picture, did you happen to notice if the void between the Gardens site and Moe's extends to Fourth Avenue? Even if in an indirect manner? The reason I ask is I was speaking to an attorney the other day who mentioned that years ago he was involved in a dispute over that land. Someone wanted to build on it and was kept from doing so because supposedly part of that block contains a cattle path that was used to bring cattle up from the river to Market Square. Obviously a pretty old path. I wonder if any of that played a part in the Gardens project being realized. Anyone hear anything about that?

Also I'm geeked to hear a plan will be out this year for Mt. Washington. That company's past work looks atrocious but I'm optimistic about their future plans.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yep. Supposedly they didn't really bring the building up to great condition, and also allegedly violated some terms of their deal with Siemens, but the fact it wasn't a roaring success as an office building lends credibility to the idea it is not necessarily well-suited to that purpose.



Sure! There are actually a lot of different luxury brands around these days looking to expand in the U.S., including ones that started in Asia (like Mandarin Oriental), and offshoots like JW Marriott or Park Hyatt. There is also a trend of big international chains doing their own "boutique" hotels, things like Marriott Edition or Hyatt Andaz.

If you read around, a big thing these days is to try to make luxury hotels feel more "authentic", more specific to city/country they are in, more individually distinctive, and so on. Off hand I could see a luxury hotel in the Union Trust Building really fitting that theme, meaning it could be very much a distinctive, Pittsburgh-flavored, sort of luxury hotel.

Brian, thank you for agreeing with me! How about something with "Grant" in its name? A luxury hotel at that location would really give Grant Street a more Midtown Manhattan kind of feel to it, don't you think? You know what is a couple of doors down? The Omni William Penn, which I think is Pittsburgh's equivalent to either the Waldorf or the Plaza, only without a pool...

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Yeah you guys are right, now that I think about it Union Trust would probably make a pretty awesome high end hotel. I still think shops on the first floor indoor mall would be perfect.

However, if it DID go residential I guess there is already a precedent: The old Pennsylvania Railroad building. I have been in one of those apartments and it wasn't bad. And talk about a GRAND entrance. Holy cow.

Thank you as well, Austin. The idea of having a mall on the lower level(s) with the hotel floors starting right above it really has my mouth watering here! I SOO badly want this to be a hotel and a high-end one at that!

Coming back to the idea of a "W" in Downtown, I think they could quite nicely combine the old classical architecture with something more sleek, contemporary, modern to give a rather intriguing flare to Grant Street. Could you imagine exterior LED lighting schemes to go along with this idea?

Originally Posted by BrianTH

A few interesting details in this article on the 6-month extension of Buncher's option on the Produce Terminal:

http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/produceterminal030514.aspx



I'm not sure I knew before they wanted to redo Smallman all the way to the Convention Center.

Also this:



That "pods" approach is interesting. It certainly seems to me that you could open up more possibilities for sustainable uses if you could do different things with different sections.

Funny how Pike's Place and the Reading Terminal are mentioned. I was at both public markets, and both are incredible pieces of land. In doing something like this with Smallman Street, it would be a good way of combining both of these and giving it (Smallman Street, the Produce Terminal, etc) its own Pittsburgh feel. I hope it happens. I've been bringing this idea up for a while, and I know others have done so as well...

[themaguffin]

I'll mention something that i've mentioned before - most hotels are franchised.
Yes a Starwood would be concerned about the proximity of the exact same brand, but there's no W in town. If someone is looking to open a hotel that would fit into the W's target demos etc, and might choose a competitor brand, they would go for it.

That said, I've not seen a W in such an old building. I've only seen them in more recent, contemporary construction, not in such older buildings.

[WillyC]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

That said, I've not seen a W in such an old building. I've only seen them in more recent, contemporary construction, not in such older buildings.

They do a pretty good job with old buildings. I've stayed at both the W in DC and in Istanbul. Unfortunately I didn't take pictures when I was at either. The W doesn't have any exterior pictures on their site but the one for Istanbul did.

Here is the url for the W Istanbul website gallery: (http://www.wistanbul.com.tr/en/gallery). Photos of the exterior show how it is part of the redevelopment of row houses built in 1875.

[Muckk]

The W on Union Square in New York is in a fairly old building. I suppose it's feasible.

[BrianTH]

If I had to pick one brand I would like to see, I think it would be Mandarin Oriental. It would lend a nice explicitly international flair (including on the emerging Asiaburgh theme), they seem to have done a lot of hotels in the circa 200 room range (where I suspect this would end up), and they have a bit of the old school vibe that I think would work in this building. They also tend to feature a spa component, and I think some of those top floor spaces could work very well as a spa.

Mandarin Oriental in London (Hyde Park):

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Muckk

When you took this picture, did you happen to notice if the void between the Gardens site and Moe's extends to Fourth Avenue?

I don't think so:



The Benendum-Trees Building cuts off the corner, and it doesn't look like they marked off any path along that building to the gap which provides access to Fourth.

[photoLith]

I don't see why a most likely early 19th century cattle path would matter at all in ownership anymore. So no I've never heard anything about said cattle path.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by photoLith

I don't see why a most likely early 19th century cattle path would matter at all in ownership anymore. So no I've never heard anything about said cattle path.

There is a whole body of law on this sort of easement--on at least a couple different theories, a cattle path could eventually establish a public right of way. However, such easements are usually subject to "extinguishment" if they are blocked for long enough without objection. So even assuming such an easement had once existed, I'd want to know if it had ever been blocked.

[BrianTH]

Intriguing article about local developer Don Cella, who specializes in creating unique and charming properties with reused materials:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...g-whats-next-for-don-cella.html?page=all

Cella and his Five Mile recently closed on selling Gristmill Corporate Center, the company’s distinctive 32,000-square-foot, redbarn-roofed office property in Ross Township. . . . Licastro said that Cella is working to sell off some of his established properties, including his 46,000-square-foot Stone Quarry Commons in Ohio Township, because he wants to get involved in other projects.
. . .
With his Stone Quarry on the market, Cella also leased a portion of his own offices there and moved Five Mile Development into a new building he bought late last year at 3101 Smallman St., the former Ralph J. Meyer Co. Building, in the Strip District. While Five Mile is now based in 15,000-square-foot building, an industrial shed just below the 31st Street Bridge, Cella and his son Don have other interesting plans for the property, added Licastro. Cella recently bought a company called Magnificent Manufacturing, a company that makes architectural tile and other custom materials, and is moving it into the Strip District building along with a range of equipment such as kilns and molds in order to ramp up production there. It’s a move that puts a new design-oriented firm in the middle of a Strip District and Lawrenceville area that has long billed itself as a design zone.

Incidentally, this is the guy who wanted to buy, move, and reuse a chunk of the Civic Arena:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2010/09/13/focus3.html



Even more ambitious plans for a South Shore installation (and a lot of other stuff) here:

http://www.5miledevelopment.com/flash.html

[BrianTH]

Pretty fascinating analysis here comparing Detroit to several "Rust Belt" cities including Pittsburgh:

http://swontariourbanist.blogspot.com/2014/03/post-world-war-ii-rust-belt-trends.html

From the conclusion:

As for the other cities, Pittsburgh appears to have stabilized much of its neighbourhoods and maintained the cohesiveness of the city, leading to substantial potential for recovery from urban decline. St Louis may soon follow as its core is experiencing substantial revitalization and recent decline has mostly been limitted to the North side. Buffalo's downtown is not revitalizing as much, but recent decline is mostly limitted to the East side so it could foreseeably begin to recover as well. The situation in Cleveland is more difficult, while overall post-WWII losses have been comparable to the other 4 cities, it has been losing population at a greater rate than St Louis, Pittsburgh and Buffalo in the last decade. The situation appears somewhat complicated and could take a while to sort itself out and stabilize.

[BrianTH]

Pittsburgh did well again in Site Selection's annual review:

http://www.siteselection.com/issues/2014/mar/metros.cfm

It was #3 in the Northeast region (after Philly and NYC), and it looks like #12 overall (they list the top 10, then I believe DC would be #11 followed by Pittsburgh).

These lists are based on new corporate facilities or relocations listed in Conway's New Plants database, which are "projects costing at least US$1 million, covering at least 20,000 sq. ft. or employing at least 50 people."

http://www.siteselection.com/npreports.cfm

[pghusa]

Originally Posted by photoLith

I don't see why a most likely early 19th century cattle path would matter at all in ownership anymore. So no I've never heard anything about said cattle path.

Actually there are reports from the early 20th century of cattle drives up to Market Square from the Mon Wharf, possibly even into the 1920s or beyond. I just read through a news story of someone that helped lead such drives as a teen, can't seem to find it at the moment but I'll dig around.

From my memory though the drives used Market Street or perhaps Wood never heard of any sort of right of way between them.


What is interesting about the site next to the Benedum-Trees tower is that it was the site of the Pittsburgh Stock Exchange from 1901 until the early 1960s (it moved closer to Wood Street from about 63 until it closed in 1974).

Although cattle was important to the economy back then I kind of doubt that they drove them right past or onto Stock Exchange property and the historic maps show that the Stock Exchange building existing right up to the east walls of Benedum Trees.

Would be more interested in what the attorney had to say on that, perhaps he/she was referring to a right of way on Market or Wood Streets that allowed for cattle drives? Even without the Stock Exchange you have a tight collection of very opulent structures dating back to the time of the drives in the early 1900s along 4th between Market and Wood. Only other explanation is that there was one that predates the 1880s in that area but then why build the city's stock exchange right on top of it in 1901?

[pghusa]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Pittsburgh did well again in Site Selection's annual review:

http://www.siteselection.com/issues/2014/mar/metros.cfm

It was #3 in the Northeast region (after Philly and NYC), and it looks like #12 overall (they list the top 10, then I believe DC would be #11 followed by Pittsburgh).

These lists are based on new corporate facilities or relocations listed in Conway's New Plants database, which are "projects costing at least US$1 million, covering at least 20,000 sq. ft. or employing at least 50 people."

http://www.siteselection.com/npreports.cfm

That is one excellent site.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

If I had to pick one brand I would like to see, I think it would be Mandarin Oriental. It would lend a nice explicitly international flair (including on the emerging Asiaburgh theme), they seem to have done a lot of hotels in the circa 200 room range (where I suspect this would end up), and they have a bit of the old school vibe that I think would work in this building. They also tend to feature a spa component, and I think some of those top floor spaces could work very well as a spa.

Mandarin Oriental in London (Hyde Park):

I love where your head is with this, Brian. I think having such a hotel with such amenities as the ones you mention here, this could be Pittsburgh's first 5-star hotel! I would love to see Pittsburgh with a hotel with a full-service spa.

[BrianTH]

Buried at the end of this article is the note that the start of development at the ALMONO site is likely to be delayed until 2015 (bummer):

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2014/03/06/ridcs-smith-sees-pittsburgh-growth.html

[mikebarbaro]

Here is good news for the Parkway Center Mall site: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/03/06/new-plans-in-store-for-parkway-center-mall-site/

[Brentsters]

Cool, a mall...down the road from another mall...

[mikebarbaro]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

Cool, a mall...down the road from another mall...

Yea. I guess I should have said it's better than what's there now but I am not happy with the idea of a suburban like shopping mall. Maybe if it's done in a way like Brentwood Square is it will be ok.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by mikebarbaro

Yea. I guess I should have said it's better than what's there now but I am not happy with the idea of a suburban like shopping mall. Maybe if it's done in a way like Brentwood Square is it will be ok.

I agree. It should be done in a way similar to Settlers Ridge, adjacent to the Giant Eagle flagship Market District. If they want another reference, look at Hunt Valley, MD. just outside Baltimore along I-83. That actually was a failed indoor suburban mall transformed into a town center more-or-less. It even has commercial use incorporated into it as well if I'm not mistaken...

Also, I think they should consider either adjacent residential uses (similar to that at the Waterfront) but more urban in design -- either directly adjacent to this plaza or directly above it. Although, isn't there supposedly some residential development going up nearby?