Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

Strange. 40,000-seat setup includes the retractable end zone seating. Wonder how they plan to fit the Grey Cup in there?

I wondered more how they'd work in the temp seating with the roofed ends, though I guess these are still just conceptual. But I too think the Grey Cup would still be held at RC.

This is terrific news though. I think it will be great for the Argos.

And we get to have another stadium completion countdown.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

I assume the roof will be high enough to fit the temporary seating underneath

[ScreamingViking]

Would they add more private boxes on the east side? (how many does BMO have now?)

[FrankieFlowerpot]

It currently has 30 I believe

Looking at this looks like they will add them on the east side too

[elly63]

Could this be in BMO's future.

Interesting to note that the head groundskeeper of Wembley says that football (he means soccer) is the hardest on the pitch (harder than NA football), especially warmups and goalkeepers who feel they have to practice in front of the goal on the pitch instead of another area.

The digging in and turning (soccer) is the hardest on the pitch and Desso holds up well to Canadian/American football. Paint removal is an issue killing grass.

One thing in Toronto's favour is that unlike England they don't play through the winter where maintenance, ie lack of sun, cold temperatures are issues complicating upkeep.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't mean to be an — but I actually laughed out loud at that

Hey, its not that far fetched that with a better experience and atmosphere at BMO, and limited demand that they could fill the 25K quite easily and could push 30K

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Hey, its not that far fetched that with a better experience and atmosphere at BMO, and limited demand that they could fill the 25K quite easily and could push 30K

Perhaps, but I'm also skeptical of what might happen in a weak market when the team plays outdoor games in October when it's 5 degrees or however cold it gets in Toronto.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm a bit perplexed by why football fans would consider this to be an improvement... Skydome was built specifically to get the Argos and the Blue Jays out of the inclement weather, and it has a certain big-time aura that BMO would never convey. Yet fans in Toronto never seemed happy with the place, so in true grass-is-greener spirit here go the Argos back to Exhibition Place. (How long before fans start complaining about cold October winds off the lake?)

It really just has to do with the game day experience for Argos fans. It's not fun to have to travel into downtown Toronto to sit in a cavernous, half-empty stadium to watch the Argos play. It's simply too big for the team's needs and while it has the major league appearance BMO lacks, the lack of attendance makes the team scream minor league, which certianly doesn't help attract fans. They're using the same strategy the Alouettes used when they moved to Molson: if they can fill up BMO and create a demand for tickets, it will create more hype and excitement for the team, and ultimately help raise their profile in a crowded market.

As for the weather, I don't think that will be a huge factor. Football in Canada has moved past the idea that it should be played in a domed stadium safe from the elements. At least out West, we're happy to play in the cold and snow because it is part of the appeal for Canadian football. I think getting the Argos out of the sterile Rogers Centre to a more intimate stadium like BMO will help their popularity overall.

BTW, at the presentation did they say anything about the seats at BMO? Will they continue to have the red seats with the TFC logo and name written on them, or are they planning to replace those for a different look? I think it'd be pretty silly to see the Argos playing in a stadium with another team's name staring them in the face.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

BTW, at the presentation did they say anything about the seats at BMO? Will they continue to have the red seats with the TFC logo and name written on them, or are they planning to replace those for a different look? I think it'd be pretty silly to see the Argos playing in a stadium with another team's name staring them in the face.

I hadn't even thought of that, but I'd be surprised if they did. If they keep it red, it certainly won't help with the minor league image the Argonauts have. They'll be seen as second-rate citizens in a stadium again.

Maybe they can compromise and make them purple?
As a fun bit of trivia, garbage bins in Liverpool are purple as a compromise between the red of Liverpool FC and the blue of Everton.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Perhaps, but I'm also skeptical of what might happen in a weak market when the team plays outdoor games in October when it's 5 degrees or however cold it gets in Toronto.

Torontonians are plenty hardy enough - don't worry about that. And 5C in October would be a pretty rare event. November is a whole other issue, however.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Perhaps, but I'm also skeptical of what might happen in a weak market when the team plays outdoor games in October when it's 5 degrees or however cold it gets in Toronto.

It's warm in October in Toronto. It can easily reach the high teens many days.

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

From a football perspective, I think the stadium is a little disappointing, in the same way that Tim Horton's field is a little disappointing, and does not really represent a step-up from older CFL stadium designs, like Canad Inns, Mosaic, Frank Clair, Molson-Percival, McMahon, Ivor Wynne, etc., which were cobbled together over the years and lack symmetrical cohesion and wrap-around bowl seating.

Without a football-specific, symmetrical design and wrap-around bowl seating, BMO Field fails to achieve that important "big-league" atmosphere and aesthetic that stadiums like Investors Group Field and BC Place exude when full. (Even Tim Horton's Field is football-specific and has sideline seating that extends all the way to the back of the endzone and has endzone spectator decks.)

Ultimately, I think Rogers (via MLSE, this time) has once again successfully seduced the Argos away from achieving independence and building a modern football-specific stadium of their own.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

From a football perspective, I think the stadium is a little disappointing, in the same way that Tim Horton's field is a little disappointing, and does not really represent a step-up from older CFL stadium designs, like Canad Inns, Mosaic, Frank Clair, Molson-Percival, McMahon, Ivor Wynne, etc., which were cobbled together over the years and lack symmetrical cohesion and wrap-around bowl seating.

Without a football-specific, symmetrical design and wrap-around bowl seating, BMO Field fails to achieve that important "big-league" atmosphere and aesthetic that stadiums like Investors Group Field and BC Place exude when full. (Even Tim Horton's Field is football-specific and has sideline seating that extends all the way to the back of the endzone and has endzone spectator decks.)

Ultimately, I think Rogers (via MLSE, this time) has once again successfully seduced the Argos away from achieving independence and building a modern football-specific stadium of their own.

I agree with this assessment. Leaving aside the attendance issue, I'd say that strictly as a facility, BMO is a step down from Skydome. Football is an afterthought at BMO and it shows in the stadium design, with a total lack of endzone seating which is a bit of an atmosphere killer. Unfortunately this is probably the best they can do given that they are starting with what was designed as a soccer-specific stadium. Obviously it should have been done right from the start as a mixed football/soccer facility, but just as with the U of T and York University plans, the Argos missed the boat on this project at the outset.

Even though this facility is not ideal, I suppose that there is some relief that the Argos will have a home at all. Unlike other CFL cities with new or renovated stadiums, the Argos were essentially on the clock and had to find a home before time ran out. So in that light, BMO is a godsend for them. In some ways CFL and MLS teams are a good fit for each other - if the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL are the "big four" pro sports, then CFL and MLS are nos. 5 and 6 in the North American context. Their stadium needs are quite similar and if they're designed properly, I don't see why they can't work together.

But that said, it's crazy that a 140+ year old team doesn't have a venue of its own. In my view, as soon as the Argos play their first game at BMO, they should begin long term planning to get their own stadium built. Even if it takes 20 years to pull it off, the Argos really need to get things moving on a facility purpose built for CFL football. The new owner of the team, whoever it ends up being, really needs to make the club the master of its domain.

[elly63]

Tim Hortons Field Hamilton March 7/2014

[Le-TanK-]

Good for the argos for finding a new home

[Stainless]

Originally Posted by elly63

Could this be in BMO's future.

I really, really doubt that the BMO crew is going to put that much energy into the field. CFL stadiums tend to treat the field quality as more of a nuisance than a priority.

Mosaic and McMahon both look patchy, like parts of the field are more worn and trampled than others. There are rotating brush machines that are supposed to avoid that by "fluffing" the field occasionally, but I suspect that there's none of that going on up here. It's not just appearance, either. Matted field turf is an ugly injury waiting to happen, because cleats can't slip as easily to save the leg when necessary.

Don't even get me started on the stupid on-field advertising and the shadows that those leave. The field painting and prep for this past Grey Cup in Regina looked like some junior high school art-class project.

I wish the CFL would respect the playing surface half as much as the NFL does, much less with the same fanaticism as the European soccer leagues. I'm very glad to see some grass coming back to the league, but I won't hold my breath to see a similar video documenting the loving prep work going on in Toronto between events.

This might bug me a little too much.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by Stainless

Don't even get me started on the stupid on-field advertising and the shadows that those leave. The field painting and prep for this past Grey Cup in Regina looked like some junior high school art-class project.

Shouldn't be an issue here - it was discussed last night that the sponsors logos would be digitally imposed on the field for TV only - like the 10 yard line marker.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Shouldn't be an issue here - it was discussed last night that the sponsors logos would be digitally imposed on the field for TV only - like the 10 yard line marker.

Really? I mentioned this a while back knowing it was possible but not really thinking they would do it. Good to know.

As for Stainless' comment, MLSE has committed to providing a great turf. Will they go to the extent of arguably the best known turf pitch in the world, likely not, but they will put forth a good effort. They have to.

As for "blaming" the CFL, they are merely tenants in mostly city owned structures, they have little to do with the upkeep.

I've seen a lot of posts of soccer fans "obsessed" with football lines, when they are hardly visible, it does bug them a little too much.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Here's the full presentation for the BMO Expansion

http://www.explace.on.ca/database/rte/fi...20Field%20-%20Public%20Meeting_FINAL.pdf

[elly63]

Praise Allah! Frankie you got the scoop on this one. Bows to your omnipotence.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Gensler Architects and Icon Venue Group are involved in the expansion - and they have quite the resume

- Houston Dynamo Stadium
- New Atlanta Falcons stadium (NFL/MLS)
- Farmers Field LA NFL stadium
- Minnesota Vikings new stadium
- BC Place renovation
- Portland Timbers stadium renos
- PPL park in Philly
- new Barcelona FC proposed stadium renos
- new DC United proposed stadium
- Dicks sporting goods park
- Redbull Arena New Jersey
- Toyota Park in CHicago
- plus other