PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Parkway]

I did not see any surface parking but they did entomb a garage in the middle. However I'm with the crowd that really wanted to see a residential component to this.

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

Pitiful. I hope this proposal dies a painful death. I mean, surface parking in the back? Really????

Although I agree that this stinks, but it's all structured parking except, I believe, the loading area on Carpenter [which is also covered by the second floor].

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Parkway

I did not see any surface parking but they did entomb a garage in the middle. However I'm with the crowd that really wanted to see a residential component to this.

Also, while CC is in dire need of a movie theatre, it looks like I have to be the one to state it: theaters in close proximity to hoodlums attract hoodlums (see UA on Columbus, Univ. City). This would not be a good thing for an evolving - as opposed to devolving - area.

[Kidphilly]

This has over 1,000 parking spaces on 6 levels (two below ground, one ground level and 3 above)

[Kidphilly]

http://hiddencityphila.org/2014/03/the-complicated-growth-of-chop/

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Also, while CC is in dire need of a movie theatre, it looks like I have to be the one to state it: theaters in close proximity to hoodlums attract hoodlums (see UA on Columbus, Univ. City). This would not be a good thing for an evolving - as opposed to devolving - area.

I imagine it depends on the "type" of theater. A theater playing crappy hollywood stuff will get crappy teenagers. A place running "independent" or foreign or repertory stuff will get a more mature crowd. Given this is bart of columbus blvd fame i'd assume the former.

[ILovePhilly]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but I just came across plans for the retail complex at Broad and Washington and figured I would share:

http://s.lnimg.com/attachments/8/D/6/8D6B11A0-06CB-470E-A079-60AFBCA7499B.pdf

I'm no expert on this but I was expecting at least a little more height on this in the form of apartments for greater density/more potential customers.

EW. That is just ew. It's not because there isn't any height. Just because it's a super block doesn't mean it has to be planned and built in one giant super block. If you aren't going to get the value out of it in height (which the market might not support at that height, that's fine) you would get a lot more value out of it breaking it into two, three, or four blocks by adding cross streets back in, increase curb frontage to make it interesting, and going with something that's less suburban shopping sprawl and more back to basics urban neighborhood style retail destination.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by ILovePhilly

EW. That is just ew. It's not because there isn't any height. Just because it's a super block doesn't mean it has to be planned and built in one giant super block. If you aren't going to get the value out of it in height (which the market might not support at that height, that's fine) you would get a lot more value out of it breaking it into two, three, or four blocks by adding cross streets back in, increase curb frontage to make it interesting, and going with something that's less suburban shopping sprawl and more back to basics urban neighborhood style retail destination.

This looks a lot like Pathmark without a pool - there has to be a better plan

1,000+ parking spots and little effect to the street or to develop a destination consistent with the neighborhood IMHO -this would be a huge missed Opportunity

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Also, while CC is in dire need of a movie theatre, it looks like I have to be the one to state it: theaters in close proximity to hoodlums attract hoodlums (see UA on Columbus, Univ. City). This would not be a good thing for an evolving - as opposed to devolving - area.

This is nearly as close to center city as the Pearl is. Center city already has the multiple Ritz theaters and the re-opened Roxy which shows Hollywood stuff. My saying is if you're into movies that hoodlums would watch it is your own bad, not the theater.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

This has over 1,000 parking spaces on 6 levels (two below ground, one ground level and 3 above)

Tons of parking and no residential yet only 1 block from a subway stop. Blatstein is a genius

[mPhilly]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

Pitiful. I hope this proposal dies a painful death. I mean, surface parking in the back? Really????

Isn't that a garage? Why is everybody hating on this so much? Have you BEEN to Broad and Washington? Its a horrible place right now. At least with this thing I can take a subway to a movie theater for a change instead of finding a way to Columbus Blvd. Honestly, Broad and Washington cannot get much worse, this is a clear improvement.

Sometimes the people on this blog are crazy. Were you hoping they were going to build the next world trade center at BROAD AND WASHINGTON???

[mPhilly]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I imagine it depends on the "type" of theater. A theater playing crappy hollywood stuff will get crappy teenagers. A place running "independent" or foreign or repertory stuff will get a more mature crowd. Given this is bart of columbus blvd fame i'd assume the former.

Believe it or not Hollywood makes good films as well. True, movie theaters do attract teenagers, but it ATTRACTS them, it doesn't CREATE them. Point being, they are coming from somewhere, I'd rather see them spending their Friday night at a movie theater watching "crappy hollywood stuff" than forming a flash mob or something.

On further examination though I do agree there are too many parking spaces for this location.

[hammersklavier]

It's actually a vertical mall concept. That's actually a good thing because vertical malls tend to start sprouting up once cities reach a critical mass of retail. As of right now, Philadelphia is the second-largest city in the US without a true bona fide vertical mall (Houston being the only one larger).

When you think of a vertical mall, think like a shopping mall stacked vertically. Columbia Heights' DC USA project is the classic example. Several have gone/are going up in New York. Chicago, LA, and San Francisco all have a few. They're actually a European concept, pioneered (AFAIK) in Paris. It's very rare for a vertical mall to have a residential component.

It's also rare, but not unheard of (see DC USA) for one to have a ton of parking. A thousand parking spaces are far more than what this project really needs. I guarantee it.

[Pennsgrant]

Originally Posted by mPhilly

Isn't that a garage? Why is everybody hating on this so much? Have you BEEN to Broad and Washington? Its a horrible place right now. At least with this thing I can take a subway to a movie theater for a change instead of finding a way to Columbus Blvd. Honestly, Broad and Washington cannot get much worse, this is a clear improvement.

Sometimes the people on this blog are crazy. Were you hoping they were going to build the next world trade center at BROAD AND WASHINGTON???

Dude the skyline views alone from say a 9th floor condo/apt would be to die for. Theres $7.5 B worth of projects underway or about to get underway in Center City/Univ City. Graduate Hospital in 20 years has gone from very rough to one of the best urban reclamation neighborhoods in the country. Broad + Washington is a stones throw away.


If this were 20th + Washington or 5th + Washington I might see your angle but this Broad + Washington. This has to be a first class urban project with residential or office, not a mall. 9-12 stories mix use is what I would like to see with an eventual project on that ugly lot across Broad.

[Outta here]

Pardon the interruption on this matter , but wasn't there suppose to be some giant area development at Broad & Washington a while back that included twin towers some 500' tall ?
What ever happened to that project and why would a stacked mall with movie theaters be a
better fit for that location . And the vacant lot across the street make the whole area look like
the land of the lost .

[McBane]

Originally Posted by mPhilly

Isn't that a garage? Why is everybody hating on this so much? Have you BEEN to Broad and Washington? Its a horrible place right now. At least with this thing I can take a subway to a movie theater for a change instead of finding a way to Columbus Blvd. Honestly, Broad and Washington cannot get much worse, this is a clear improvement.

Sometimes the people on this blog are crazy. Were you hoping they were going to build the next world trade center at BROAD AND WASHINGTON???

I agree. Having said that, who on this thread doesn't ever want taller? And who doesn't want more density next to a subway? But let's be realistic. As mP said, it's Broad and Washington, not Broad and Walnut. Sorry, but no developer is going to break up the superblock and create a more intimate set of city blocks here. And those twin 500 footers? Pie in the sky.

Look at what got built at Broad and South - a far more lively corner closer to CC: a crappy 7 floor apartment building on a much smaller footprint. Plus, don't forget this is only one of two massive empty lots on the corner, so hopefully if this is successful, it will spur the other lot to finally be developed (maybe that will be a high rise redemption?).

Do I wish it could be a a high rise? Of course, but not every proposal can be a high rise and sometimes, you gotta know when to fold 'em. Given the circumstances and the location, I support this project.

[Philly Fan]

Just found this recent progress meeting report with lots of interesting details:

http://www.djkeating.com/ftp/ESTIMATING/...ngs%2020140115/140107_Progress_final.pdf

Apparently, the old frat house will be partially demolished, with the remaining portion being incorporated into a new, larger structure. Construction is currently targeted to begin in May of this year, and be finished by January 2016. And perhaps most significantly for Philly in general (and the Penn campus in particular), the plans include significant landscaping and improvements along 38th Street between the Locust Walk Bridge and Walnut Street.

[ILovePhilly]

I walked by the old mattress store entrance at 1811 Chestnut (storefront connects to the basement of the Belgravia) to find that it was in full demolition mode. It was wrapped in plywood and there were sounds of smashing coming from the inside. The Joan Shepp store will be moving into the space. Still no movement or news on the Pearl group of properties at 19th and Chestnut. 2017-21 Chestnut has already been reduce to a hole in the ground, pretty impressive. The American Eagle storefront under construction at the former Victoria's Secret continues to not shovel or salt the sidewalk.

[Teakwood]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

It's actually a vertical mall concept. That's actually a good thing because vertical malls tend to start sprouting up once cities reach a critical mass of retail. As of right now, Philadelphia is the second-largest city in the US without a true bona fide vertical mall (Houston being the only one larger).

When you think of a vertical mall, think like a shopping mall stacked vertically. Columbia Heights' DC USA project is the classic example. Several have gone/are going up in New York. Chicago, LA, and San Francisco all have a few. They're actually a European concept, pioneered (AFAIK) in Paris. It's very rare for a vertical mall to have a residential component.

It's also rare, but not unheard of (see DC USA) for one to have a ton of parking. A thousand parking spaces are far more than what this project really needs. I guarantee it.

These are everywhere in the NYC metro. The one in White Plains VERY much has residential as a component: http://goo.gl/maps/BuJlv (The Target is underneath the tower portion)

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by McBane

I agree. Having said that, who on this thread doesn't ever want taller? And who doesn't want more density next to a subway? But let's be realistic. As mP said, it's Broad and Washington, not Broad and Walnut. Sorry, but no developer is going to break up the superblock and create a more intimate set of city blocks here. And those twin 500 footers? Pie in the sky.

Look at what got built at Broad and South - a far more lively corner closer to CC: a crappy 7 floor apartment building on a much smaller footprint. Plus, don't forget this is only one of two massive empty lots on the corner, so hopefully if this is successful, it will spur the other lot to finally be developed (maybe that will be a high rise redemption?).

Do I wish it could be a a high rise? Of course, but not every proposal can be a high rise and sometimes, you gotta know when to fold 'em. Given the circumstances and the location, I support this project.

Ok , I agree to a point . Maybe twin 500' towers at that location are a stretch . However ,
the current proposal would not get my vote , if I had one . How about poll vaulting the
Avenue of the Arts to that part of Broad .
I haven't been down there in 18 or so months , and I believe there is or was a " private "
school for the arts not too far from Washington Av. but I would much prefer a complex of
multi floor buildings that express teaching the " arts " to the public at large . So how about
two blocks ( spanning Broad St. ) of educating talented young adults and children in , say ,
Visual Arts , i.e . painting / photography , Architecture . Literary arts / Performing arts ,
Theater / Dance , or even Martial arts . I think that would be a much better addition to
Broad & Washington than a " stack mall ", with movie theaters ....... The only problem I
can imagine is , where does the funding come from .