Tempe Development Thread

[DevilsRider]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

And, in the meantime, Tempe can get its streetcar issues straightened out so that in 5 or so years, raising a family in the city and working at SF can be done in a smart, sustainable fashion.

While we wait for the streetcar, hopefully, when this development comes online, Tempe/VM will take the initiative to re-route some transit service to Rio Salado. Perhaps one or two of the 48, 62, Orbit Earth, or Orbit Venus could be re-routed to run down Rio Salado from Mill to Packard Drive and then back to the Transit Center, instead of on 5th from Mill to College as they all do currently. And/or they can extend the FLASH buses to make a full loop west to Mill instead of stopping at Packard/Rio as they do now.

I imagine that between State Farm and Hayden Ferry, there would be at least enough demand to re-route one of them, as the Mill/5th area already has more than enough service to spare one line.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by TempeSilverFox

Jjs5056, I think you'll be pleased to know that the State Farm complex actually doesn't really change the public access to Tempe Town Lake at all. The lake front park and multi-use paths are still there and always will be. In fact, the State Farm project really does more to promote accessibility and activity at the lake front than the ocean of a parking lot that was previously there. From everything we have heard, the State Farm complex is supposed to include coffee shops and some sort of restaurants (I think...?) If that's true, then folks now have additional destinations to walk towards along the lake shore. I think it will work out quite nicely. But to your point, I think all of us would like to see increased residential- aimed towards as many demographics as possible- in the downtown core Mill Avenue District. The greater the variety of residents, the more self-sustaining the area will become, and ideally, we should see a greater variety of businesses that will hopefully follow them.

Oh, I'm sure that the development will be a better than Lot 59; I'm just wary of these large, corporate office parks along the shore. HFL, for example, is extremely uninviting to pedestrians on Rio Salado at a place downtown that should serve as the ultimately connection between the city and lake.

I shouldn't project those shortcomings onto Marina Heights, and you're right that they have incorporated some restaurant/retail uses into the project. I just hope there's a welcoming entrance to the public from Packard and Rio Salado. The lakefront view will be stunning, but the challenge is providing visibility and accessibility on both sides.

Great to hear light rail passes are already part of the SF package; hopefully, as DevilsRider mentioned, Tempe can make arrangements for bus service in the interim to get as many of these workers to the light rail as possible.

I know very little about BRT. Assuming Rio Salado will need to be widened at some point once all lakefront development is in place, would this option make sense? AFAIK, it's the cheapest option and streetcar, let alone a second route, seem so far off. I suppose it really only makes sense on Rural, since Rio doesn't really connect to neighborhoods, only to the LRT which can possibly get riders home.

BRT phase I is scheduled to open by 2015 from University to north Scottsdale, so that's another mass transit option that should ease traffic for commuters.

[MegaBass]

College Avenue Commons today with streetscape underway h/t ASU Business-Finance

[Jjs5056]

Thanks.

A far cry from the 12-story projects originally touted in the early 2000's, but it will be great to see this area of College booming finally. You'll have to keep us posted on the retail; there should be a bookstore, marketplace, and cafe/winery, but some articles leave out the third.

Also, I'm really intrigued by the streetscape, as apparently it will be a shared parkway between cars, bikes, pedestrians, etc. it would be great to see the transformation and whether there's striping, changes in grade, etc.

Lastly, some plans show retail buildings within the courtyard north of the building - can you let us know if you see anything underway there? My guess is they'll build the plaza first, and then the retail once they have tenants under contract.

[TempeSilverFox]

I had no idea that Tucson was building a streetcar system? This is really cool looking and I hope that Tempe's looks similar!

I think you guys are right on about using alternate bus / Oribit / Flash routes to better link Rio Salado's new projects with the Mill Avenue District for now, and then allowing the streetcar to take over after. Seems like a regular free (or very cheap) shuttle would encourage the workers at State Farm's complex to venture over to Mill for lunch etc.

http://azbex.com/tucson-asking-feds-to-let-it-run-incomplete-streetcar/

[xymox]

To solve the REAL problem that more corporate HQs (and the thousands of employees that will follow) isn't a street car system. That will help those people to get to Mill, Tempe Marketplace for lunch and back. (but probably not quickly enough) That won't get them home - and it won't get them off the 202.

Tempe would really benefit well from commuter rail - if it could somehow be worked in. I've used CALTRANS when I had to visit the office in Mountain View and head into SFO for the day. It works great. The current street system - and only one nearby freeway is going to be a nightmare really quick. (it just about is currently) The arterials - especially when there are events going on - can't really handle massive traffic flows. So, significant alternatives to move a lot of people in/out quickly is needed.

Regarding free bus/light rail passes. Yeah, those are available for most any company with just a few hundred employees on site. However, in my experience, they don't really help as not a very high percentage of employees are likely to use them. I'd be really shocked it if was anywhere over 5% for really good uptake. Most people I knew took them so they can get to the ballgames downtown - and not to commute to work.

Anyhow, I think that Tempe is not really ideal for these big campuses - those fair better in areas that are prepared to handle the traffic flow - like downtown Phoenix, or the north Gateway area (up by USAA, Amex, Gore, etc). ASU being so near to these office complexes just adds to the mess. It can barely handle things as it is with the current employers.

My $0.02

[TempeSilverFox]

Originally Posted by xymox

Tempe would really benefit well from commuter rail - if it could somehow be worked in. I've used CALTRANS when I had to visit the office in Mountain View and head into SFO for the day. It works great. The current street system - and only one nearby freeway is going to be a nightmare really quick. (it just about is currently) The arterials - especially when there are events going on - can't really handle massive traffic flows. So, significant alternatives to move a lot of people in/out quickly is needed.

My $0.02

Does anyone happen to know the status of the proposed commuter rail that would link Queen Creek, Gilbert, Chandler, Tempe and downtown Phoenix? I know this has been at least proposed for the region... I vaguely remember hearing that one of the obstacles comes from the fact that the proposed commuter rail line would share (at least part of) the existing freight rail lines- and that the companies who own them are leery to share their right of ways.
I totally agree that the valley needs commuter rail - in addition to the Metro. They serve different functions and complement each other. Commuter rail would travel much greater distances and have far fewer stops than the Metro- mostly in key focus areas such as downtown Tempe etc.

Anyhow, I think that Tempe is not really ideal for these big campuses - those fair better in areas that are prepared to handle the traffic flow - like downtown Phoenix, or the north Gateway area (up by USAA, Amex, Gore, etc). ASU being so near to these office complexes just adds to the mess. It can barely handle things as it is with the current employers.

I guess I'm just incredibly lucky that I never have to witness the catastrophe that is Rural Road at rush hour lol. I work in downtown Tempe and I live maybe a mile and a half to the west of it in the Sunset neighborhood so I never have to face the traffic gauntlet.

I'm not sure I agree that Tempe is not ideal for large campuses... Tempe is the hub of the south-east valley transportation system in the Phoenix area. The city is strategically situated and benefits from incredible freeway access (202,101,143,60,10) and the Metro of course- and it's also just a stone's throw from Sky Harbor. If any city in the valley is prepared to handle traffic flow, it's Tempe.

To your point however- yes, adding 5-7 thousand more employees at the State Farm campus ON TOP of ASU and the other employers in the downtown Tempe area will certainly add to the congestion that the area faces now.
I'm often surprised that more people don't enter/exit downtown Tempe by using Mill Avenue to cross Tempe Town Lake and then use Center Parkway to access the 202. I use it all the time and I sometimes feel like it's this undiscovered secret lol- I rarely see anyone else use it. Could just be my timing though...

[combusean]

Commuter rail is under study at the moment. Don't even bother thinking about it as a possibility until transportation planners stick it on the ballot, and even then it has a long shot.

I have never seen traffic on Center Parkway. I don't even think most people know about it, and the signs are very poorly laid out directing folks to and from the 202. Maybe they should just close Rural Rd at the height of rush hour for no reason, force people onto Center Parkway, and then the problem would solve itself.

[Spitfiredude]

Originally Posted by TempeSilverFox

To your point however- yes, adding 5-7 thousand more employees at the State Farm campus ON TOP of ASU and the other employers in the downtown Tempe area will certainly add to the congestion that the area faces now.
I'm often surprised that more people don't enter/exit downtown Tempe by using Mill Avenue to cross Tempe Town Lake and then use Center Parkway to access the 202. I use it all the time and I sometimes feel like it's this undiscovered secret lol- I rarely see anyone else use it. Could just be my timing though...

I totally agree.

Priest and Scottsdale/Rural are packed, but Mill Avenue is completely empty. I use it to commute to and from W6. If the light is green at Washington St I continue straight to 52nd St and on ramp 202 there (going to PV). If I'm going east I just take Center Parkway. Like you said its an undiscovered secret. If people really are sick of the traffic, they will start taking this route. Time will tell, but it makes sense. That's a street that is being well underutilized.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

I totally agree.

Priest and Scottsdale/Rural are packed, but Mill Avenue is completely empty. I use it to commute to and from W6. If the light is green at Washington St I continue straight to 52nd St and on ramp 202 there (going to PV). If I'm going east I just take Center Parkway. Like you said its an undiscovered secret. If people really are sick of the traffic, they will start taking this route. Time will tell, but it makes sense. That's a street that is being well underutilized.

Center would be more of an option if:

1. It crossed the Lake - like it looks like it was planned to originally
2. Didn't really just dump you off at the Priest on ramp to the 202 (heading West)

Its great when you're coming into Tempe - but not so much when you're leaving in the afternoon.

Its not really much helpful than taking Rio to Priest and sitting through traffic there.

Yes - I realize all the freeways that are right there at Tempe. However, surface streets, traffic patterns, timings (work/school release at same times) and events cause major issues. I'm so glad to not have to deal with that mess anymore.

[MegaBass]

So I was browsing on Tempe Historic Preservation Commission site and found this from April 11, 2013 on Harrington Birchett House (west of ASU's College Avenue Commons)

Harrington Birchett House (1895): Rehabilitation planning for the house and historic
garage is in progress in conjunction with the development of College Avenue Commons.
The slump block garage will be demolished to make space for the “food truck of the
month.” The house and yard will be used for dining for the food trucks and the “Grab &
Go” store at the west end of College Avenue Commons.

I've also saw a rendering somewhere for covered food truck parking similar to Phoenix Public Market right by the courtyard.

[TempeSilverFox]

Originally Posted by MegaBass

So I was browsing on Tempe Historic Preservation Commission site and found this from April 11, 2013 on Harrington Birchett House (west of ASU's College Avenue Commons)



I've also saw a rendering somewhere for covered food truck parking similar to Phoenix Public Market right by the courtyard.

Awesome! We were all just talking about this house a few weeks back, wishing it could be restored or used in some creative adaptive re-use project! Thanks for the update!

[Jjs5056]

BLOCK 12
I'll take a look to see if I can find the one set of Block 12 renderings that showed retail building beneath the shade canopy, but can anyone describe where the historic home is exactly and where the trucks might? Wondering if the truck are the retail planned, or if they're two separate projects - thinking the latter. The house itself will become office space, correct?

HQs & TEMPE
As far as Tempe not being ideal for more corporate HQs, I definitely disagree; though there are clearly many challenges yet to be faced, it still beats the alternatives, which at this point are other suburbs in the far east valley, because of its:

1) Location % Infinite Talent/Research Pool: Tempe is in just miles from the airport and Phoenix, and has the biggest asset in the state at its center - ASU - and corporations would be foolish to overlook the talent and research that comes with that University.
2) Centralized Workforce & Amenities: Tempe is the Valley leader in transit and urban plainng, and while criticized the city's land choices in the past, I think we are seeing a move toward more market rate rentals vs. the student housing boom that swallowed up valuable land over the last few years. Housing is underway on Mill/5th, Ash/University, and University/Dorsey - all located on the Light Rail line or accessible via Bus. Additional, dense housing is continually proposed along the town's lakeshore, another invaluable asset that differentiates Tempe from other suburbs. While these developments are too far to reach current light rail and bus stations, a modern streetcar line is planned that will hit the Southern shore in 2017 and hopefully connect to a BRT that hits the North Shore around the same time.
3) Available Land & Smart Growth: Tempe also has (cheaper) land availability near or within its core, and has policies in place to ensure that the appropriate zoning is in place and that the correct heights, uses, etc. are being given the right consideration. USA Place, for example, will be almost a self-sufficient city at full build-out, while bringing in an abundance of revenue through conventions, events, visitors, etc. It's also continued to update its interior streets as traffic needs change, and to make them safer and more efficient for multiple modes of traffic: vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, etc.

So, in short, I think we'd all wish that Phoenix got its act together and was able to attract major HQs downtown into multiple highrises, spurring residential and retail development from the 10 to the 17, but the reality is, it hasn't been able to offer the incentives and/or assets that its suburbs have when competing agains its suburbs, so until it can find a way to make downtown the economic heart of the entire Valley as it should be, I'm grateful that companies like State Farm are choosing a city like Tempe instead of Mesa or Gilbert, etc. Quality of life means so much more than just a larger freeway network, and I think companies see that in Tempe, and the more housing we get downtown, the better.

COMMUTER RAIL
Also, regarding Commuter Rail, Commusean - how far off/how likely is this to happen? Seems like it has been on the table forever, so I've almost accepted that it won't happen this generation, but I think all of us would love too a CR system in place; it's almost like we are working backward. I find it incredibly hard to think of the best use for light rail in certain locations because of the need to serve two purposes. In reality, that system should never have been meant to be a commmuter line, and all future lines point to a hybrid that just seems like a bust IMO.

[MegaBass]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

BLOCK 12
I'll take a look to see if I can find the one set of Block 12 renderings that showed retail building beneath the shade canopy, but can anyone describe where the historic home is exactly and where the trucks might? Wondering if the truck are the retail planned, or if they're two separate projects - thinking the latter. The house itself will become office space, correct?

Harrington Birchett House (previous post) on the corner of 7th and Forest.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by MegaBass

Harrington Birchett House (previous post) on the corner of 7th and Forest.

Thanks, and sorry for being lazy.

Looks like the chances of a mid-rise residential project going on the western end of this block are pretty slim now, then?

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Thanks, and sorry for being lazy.

Looks like the chances of a mid-rise residential project going on the western end of this block are pretty slim now, then?

The western end of the property behind the house was slated for a two story building that would house a restaurant and office building...not a residential building. If there was a residential component it would have been on the part of the site where the pavilion is going in.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

The western end of the property behind the house was slated for a two story building that would house a restaurant and office building...not a residential building. If there was a residential component it would have been on the part of the site where the pavilion is going in.

Where have you seen a final proposal for Block 12 in its current form? I hav te been asking since construction began and nobody had produced anything. All I've found are vague references to "possible future phases." And, previous iterations had 8ish story residential buildings involved, which is why I had hoped maybe they could have squeezed a taller residential piece in.

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Where have you seen a final proposal for Block 12 in its current form? I hav te been asking since construction began and nobody had produced anything. All I've found are vague references to "possible future phases." And, previous iterations had 8ish story residential buildings involved, which is why I had hoped maybe they could have squeezed a taller residential piece in.

I think ASU has since took it down...if you look a few pages back I think you find the intial site plan. Of course this changes based on funding and market conditions. I think someone mentioned that ASU has decided a while back they are no longer in the student housing buisness thus is leaving it to public/ private partnerships and the private sector in general. I heard awhile back the Foundation was looking for more office space to consolidate the uses at the University Center (which eventually will be redeveloped)...maybe the remainder of the block will be used for that given the proximately to the Foundation's other building on the corner.

[ASUSunDevil]

I received a public hearing notice for The Madison Improvement Club and Lola's Coffee to be included into the Farmer Arts District. I'm assuming these two businesses will accompany The Yard.

I remember hearing about a coffee spot, but the news of Madison is a huge addition!

[PHX31]

Where exactly is the new The Yard going in Tempe?