National Holocaust Monument | Completed

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Without commenting on the artistic merit, unless it is going to be guarded 24/7, I would prefer to avoid the designs that provide a lot of hiding places for vandals, drug users, idiots, drunks, etc. as the NCC has done its best to ensure that whole part of town is desolate most of the time. Ananat would seem to fit the bill on that.

Quoted for truth. This is exactly what I'm afraid of with the lack of 'eyes on the street'.

[citizen j]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think they are all ugly.

What happened to the good old days of a beautiful statue as opposed to sterile concrete and metal bunkers?

I'm going to guess the un-beautiful nature of the thing being commemorated dictates that you aren't going to get Arnoldian sweetness and light here. Just a guess.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Some great concepts, but I really have to question the location. Such a prominent location and massive scale for something that is not specific to Canada. The Wellington/Booth intersection is unique in that it is the crossroads of the first inter-provincial link in the capital, and its first westward road. If anything, this site should celebrate the ties that unite us. I'm not sure I want a daily reminder of the slaughter of millions that took place in another continent here. I think that belongs somewhere quieter and more contemplative, like on Sussex in front of the former city hall.

Another great city-killing, space-deadening project. Doesn't Ottawa already have enough functionally dead space?

[Norman Bates]

Reflecting on the windmill Holland wanted to gift to Canada in recognition of our wartime connection, it makes me wonder if this similarly appropriate testament will ever come into being.

[Radster]

I agree with the common sentiment in this thread. I am not against such a monument, but I am totally against it being built at that particular location. Its a huge fail, as many of you have mentioned. It should be built in a more peaceful, quiet area for obvious reasons already mentioned in previous posts.

Furthermore, I am hoping that the monument will also commemorate the non-Jews killed in the Holocaust. As a Polish-born Canadian, I had granparents who fought in WWII and non-Jew family members living in conentration camps. I too have visited 2 different concentration over the years, and I am always educating people on the hard facts of WWII and the Holocaust and how its not just the Jews who suffered and endured years of hell. Yet thats the result of a type of unfortunate propaganda that has been present as of late, we are made to believe that the main victims of WWII were Jews, thats it thats all. Thats of course, far from the truth and I hope that this monument brings to light the deaths of all the other innocent civilians in Europe and beyond during WWII. Holocaust is not just about Jews.

[citydwlr]

The Globe and Mail had another posting regarding the Monument, and it had some different views than what we've seen previously. Some of them are pretty high-res, so I haven't posted them - you'll have to click on the aforementioned link to view them ...

UPDATE: Actually, here are the direct links to the renders:

Team Lord
Team Szylinger
Team Saucier + Perrotte
Team Amanat
Team Wodiczko
Team Klein

[CongoJack]

They all look pretty nice. I can definitely picture people hanging out and having a pleasant afternoon, maybe taking a break from their run or bike along the river.

And this is my issue with all of the designs (possible exception of Team Amanat) and the location. It is supposed to mark the darkest chapter in human history - the purposeful murder of millions. Any such monument should be unsettling to behold and not a place people want to be around. Rather, visiting it should be a somber responsibility.

It is of course hard to incorporate the type of monument I would prefer into any city's urban fabric. I'm at a loss to think of a good place in Ottawa to put it.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Radster

Furthermore, I am hoping that the monument will also commemorate the non-Jews killed in the Holocaust. As a Polish-born Canadian, I had granparents who fought in WWII and non-Jew family members living in conentration camps. I too have visited 2 different concentration over the years, and I am always educating people on the hard facts of WWII and the Holocaust and how its not just the Jews who suffered and endured years of hell. Yet thats the result of a type of unfortunate propaganda that has been present as of late, we are made to believe that the main victims of WWII were Jews, thats it thats all. Thats of course, far from the truth and I hope that this monument brings to light the deaths of all the other innocent civilians in Europe and beyond during WWII. Holocaust is not just about Jews.

There needs to be more of a healthy public debate on this monument, but it is sometimes hard to offer criticism without being labeled as unsympathetic, or at worse bigoted. Anti-semetism was not the sole motivation for the Holocaust, Jews were the easiest target for the perverted Nazi ideology of "Lebensraum". There's a sad painful back story buried in there, as the Nazis got inspiration from their envy of (North) Americans having been able to freely run over the aboriginal populations in the quest for more territory.

The National War Memorial was built to honour those who fought in all the wars and stands as a monument for the universal value of valour. Likewise, the Peacekeeping monument honours those who served in all the peace keeping missions and symbolizes our vigilance for peace. If there are future wars or missions they are included in the commemorations which keeps the value of these monuments contemporary.

I feel that for this monument to be timeless and relevant to more Canadians , it needs to stand for our opposition to all forms of genocide and tyranny. While it should be a place where we can solemnly remember those who have been victimized, it should also reflect on Canada as a place where wounds have healed and the Canadian stand against oppression. It should not isolate anti-Semitism from any other kind of religious persecution or racism, or martyrize a group of victims over others who have suffered equally horrendous conditions.

[CongoJack]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

There needs to be more of a healthy public debate on this monument, but it is sometimes hard to offer criticism without being labeled as unsympathetic, or at worse bigoted. Anti-semetism was not the sole motivation for the Holocaust, Jews were the easiest target for the perverted Nazi ideology of "Lebensraum". There's a sad painful back story buried in there, as the Nazis got inspiration from their envy of (North) Americans having been able to freely run over the aboriginal populations in the quest for more territory.

The National War Memorial was built to honour those who fought in all the wars and stands as a monument for the universal value of valour. Likewise, the Peacekeeping monument honours those who served in all the peace keeping missions and symbolizes our vigilance for peace. If there are future wars or missions they are included in the commemorations which keeps the value of these monuments contemporary.

I feel that for this monument to be timeless and relevant to more Canadians , it needs to stand for our opposition to all forms of genocide and tyranny. While it should be a place where we can solemnly remember those who have been victimized, it should also reflect on Canada as a place where wounds have healed and the Canadian stand against oppression. It should not isolate anti-Semitism from any other kind of religious persecution or racism, or martyrize a group of victims over others who have suffered equally horrendous conditions.

I would be in favour of a "Museum of Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing and Tyranny" (with maybe a better name...) that would feature exhibits on a broad range atrocities, including a nuanced discussion of the holocaust and its victims.

Of course, the debates around what goes in and what goes out would be intense.

[Urbanarchit]

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[citizen j]

Originally Posted by Radster

I agree with the common sentiment in this thread. I am not against such a monument, but I am totally against it being built at that particular location. Its a huge fail, as many of you have mentioned. It should be built in a more peaceful, quiet area for obvious reasons already mentioned in previous posts.

Furthermore, I am hoping that the monument will also commemorate the non-Jews killed in the Holocaust. As a Polish-born Canadian, I had granparents who fought in WWII and non-Jew family members living in conentration camps. I too have visited 2 different concentration over the years, and I am always educating people on the hard facts of WWII and the Holocaust and how its not just the Jews who suffered and endured years of hell. Yet thats the result of a type of unfortunate propaganda that has been present as of late, we are made to believe that the main victims of WWII were Jews, thats it thats all. Thats of course, far from the truth and I hope that this monument brings to light the deaths of all the other innocent civilians in Europe and beyond during WWII. Holocaust is not just about Jews.

You're right, there were a number of groups targeted by the Nazis and millions of non-Jewish individuals were sent to the camps. And any Holocaust memorial should commemorate all victims. However, I think you need to acknowledge that the sheer number of Jews killed (2/3 of the entire pre-war population) explains in part the close association of the term Holocaust as an act of genocide with Europe's Jews, and that the use of the term "propaganda" here is somewhat problematic. Finally, a friendly reminder that "Jew" is a noun, never an adjective. Thanks.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by CongoJack

I would be in favour of a "Museum of Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing and Tyranny" (with maybe a better name...) that would feature exhibits on a broad range atrocities, including a nuanced discussion of the holocaust and its victims.

Of course, the debates around what goes in and what goes out would be intense.

I couldn't agree more. The Holocaust was a truly horrific event, and it deserves to be learned from and remembered, but it wasn't the only genocide to have ever occurred. Major genocides have also taken place in Armenia, Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda, etc. (http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides)

What I'd like to know, however, is why Ottawa (and other cities for that matter) are singling out this genocide? Is it because it was the one in which the most people died? Is it because it's the one which has the most living descendants? Or could it be the one that resonates with the most voters or political party donors? I don't know the answer, but I do know that I too would like to see a memorial to all genocides, not just this one.

[Urbanarchit]

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[lrt's friend]

I don't think that we should underestimate the Holocaust. It was the most systematic elimination of a particular ethnic group in known human history. Much of Europe's Jewish population was wiped out. For this reason alone, this event must be remembered so that it won't be repeated. Yes, there have been other genocides as listed and more than just Jews were killed during the Holocaust and millions of others were killed during World War II but it is deliberate elimination of the Jewish population that stands out beyond all other atrocities in recent times. As we remember our lost war heros, we must also remember this horrific and deliberate slaughter of innocent civilians.

[Urbanarchit]

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[Urbanarchit]

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[CongoJack]

Originally Posted by defishel

I wish to make this amendment:

If this memorial is to remember Jewish people only, then it shouldn't focus just on the Holocaust, but at the suffering of Jewish people throughout history (there is a lot of suffering). But if this memorial is about genocide, then it needs to include all genocides that happened. If this is about ensuring that no group of people is persecuted, then it should be ambiguous about which groups are included, that this goes for all humans, as all humans should be treated equally.

The War Memorial may emphasize three of Canada's wars, but it remembers (including the tomb of the unnamed soldier) everyone who died and fought in all wars we participated in. I see it as being ambiguous in that regard, and therefore acceptable as a monument in Ottawa because it doesn't single out anyone.

But to focus on one group of people who suffered during any period isn't fair to everyone else who suffered, as well. Otherwise, if it is for this one event in history that happened to one group of people, then fair treatment should be given to establish monuments for everyone that has suffered greatly. Jewish people may have been the largest group affected in Europe, but to focus on what happened just to them and ignore everyone else who was sent to concentration camps and killed is insulting to them, because it chooses to ignore them as though their suffering isn't important. If this monument is a National Holocaust Monument, then it should include everyone who suferred during the Holocaust, and not just the largest number.

In any case, if this is just for the Holocaust in Europe, then we should also have a monument for all genocides elsewhere. But if this is for the Holocaust, as I've mentioned above, it should include everyone who suffered.

I like the idea of a museum to Jewish suffering throughout history. A tendency has developed to associate antisemitism almost exclusively with the Nazis (see Tony Judt's "Post War" for a great discussion), and thus denying or whitewashing the antisemitism that was common and often institutionalized across the western world.

Alternatively, I like the idea of a monument of museum concentrating on the holocaust as you described.

I guess i just really like the idea of more museums in Ottawa.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by CongoJack

A tendency has developed to associate antisemitism almost exclusively with the Nazis (see Tony Judt's "Post War" for a great discussion), and thus denying or whitewashing the antisemitism that was common and often institutionalized across the western world.

I think you've misunderstood Tony Judt's views. He was a Jew (he passed in 2010) who was critical of the establishment of Israel solely as a religious Jewish state (he preferred a shared secular Israeli-Palestinian state). He was concerned that people are confusing criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, and that many in the US Government (and the Harper government) seem to to hold Israel above censure.The ulterior motives of these politicians can threaten to mar the solemnity and sincerity behind this type of monument, as expressed in this opinion.

From the words of Tony Judt: We should beware the excessive invocation of “anti-Semitism.” A younger generation in the United States, not to mention worldwide, is growing skeptical. “If criticism of the Israeli blockade of Gaza is potentially ‘anti-Semitic,’ why take seriously other instances of the prejudice?”

[teej1984]

Originally Posted by citydwlr

The Globe and Mail had another posting regarding the Monument, and it had some different views than what we've seen previously. Some of them are pretty high-res, so I haven't posted them - you'll have to click on the aforementioned link to view them ...

UPDATE: Actually, here are the direct links to the renders:

Team Lord
Team Szylinger
Team Saucier + Perrotte
Team Amanat
Team Wodiczko
Team Klein

The comments on this article are equally interesting, especially from a national perspective.

One commentator suggests: "I'm confused. Is this a Canadian memorial for the countless First Nations people whose lives were disrupted and destroyed by the Europeans? No? It's a memorial in Canada for Europeans who were killed by other Europeans. Oh, ok...?"

[Boxster]

I have not seen a parking in any of the renderings.

I would hope that a small area is made available if we expect visitors....if not, people will just drive by.