Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Zionide

This basketball discussion is as off-topic as same-sex marriage, religion, and every other nondevelopment topic everybody bitches about.

So where are the mods now?

The basketball discussion, while not offensive, is annoying and belongs in the "chit chat" thread.

[Zionide]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

lawlz basketball offends no one

It's off-topic commentary that readers have to scroll through to get to the development discussion. It takes away from the intent of the forum.

If they're going to be strict about being on topic, they damn well better be consistent about it.

You're the one who called for a mod over religion-tinged development discussion, and it was more topical than basketball. You can't have it both ways.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

All the anti Mormons bitter forumers coming out of the wood works once again when ever we learn about a building being develop by a company that is owned by the church.
People bitch and whine about how Utah is "too Mormon" is about as silly as somebody living in Rome whining because there's too many Catholics in Rome. Really why live here then if you truly hate Mormons so much that you'd almost have to go out of your to find something to whine about?

This kind of oft recurring statement, "If you don't like it, why don't you leave," is one of the most unwelcoming aspects of Salt Lake City.

We're going to stay and make SLC better, so you might as well stop saying it.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLC2GeorgetownU

I think something like the original design of the Centrepoint Marriott in lexington would be ideal for our CCH and new tallest, I also LOVE LOVE the Austonian tower in Austin, TX.....so tasteful!!

This building looks like a big pile of stink from the '90s. When it was proposed in Lexington, KY, the locals threw a fit and roundly derided it. They kept pressing the developer for better designs and did end up with something far better and more modern for the CentrePointe development.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Stenar

This kind of oft recurring statement, "If you don't like it, why don't you leave," is one of the most unwelcoming aspects of Salt Lake City.

We're going to stay and make SLC better, so you might as well stop saying it.

Except it happens in many cities, across the country it's not unique to Salt Lake City.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Stenar

This kind of oft recurring statement, "If you don't like it, why don't you leave," is one of the most unwelcoming aspects of Salt Lake City.

We're going to stay and make SLC better, so you might as well stop saying it.

I totally agree with you!

Nothing annoys me more than the mentality of, "our way or the highway."

It goes back to the Mormon thought process and the Mormon culture of its members.... Narrow minded in all aspects, and holier than thou mentality.

It's the Mormon church's members that are giving SLC and Utah a bad reputation. We have great skiing, a clean city, the Mormon church builds CCC, but that can only go so far. Mormon members need to take some of their own advice and be more welcoming, and be more friendly to their "fellow neighbors".

Hopefully that all made sense...

[SLC Projects]

So would we just be better off to just let 111 die off and to never see it rise then to have another church owned development? Seems to me without the church stepping up to the plate, once again nobody else would.

Hard to be welcoming when people go out of their way to talk about how "evil" us Mormons are and that we are what's holding Utah back. I swear every time we learn about a new development the LDS is apart of all the anti Mormon comments follow. Remember how the old CCC thread got closed?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

So would we just be better off to just let 111 die off and to never see it rise then to have another church owned development? Seems to me without the church stepping up to the plate, once again nobody else would.

We don't know that HP was backing away from this deal.

I think it went like this:

Church leaders see 111 and think it would be a good place for a secondary office building for the church downtown. They approach HP about taking over the project.

Goldman Sachs was originally going to rent space in 111, but the church contacts Boyer about putting them in their new building on State.

Boyer suddenly raises the height of their building because Goldman is switching to their building.

HP isn't going to have another project in the works any time soon. Not unless they've known about this for a year or more. These highrise developments don't just happen overnight.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

So would we just be better off to just let 111 die off and to never see it rise then to have another church owned development? Seems to me without the church stepping up to the plate, once again nobody else would.

Hard to be welcoming when people go out if their way to talk about how "evil" us Mormons are and that we are what's holding Utah back.

It's also the Mormon politicians in Utah government that are holding SLC and Utah back as well...

[delts145]

Seriously Plaid Shirts, If your posts are any indication of who you are and how you conduct yourself in the community, then I can't blame a few Mormons for not being very welcoming to you. In the real, non-blogger world most consider me one of the nicest people they know, but quite frankly I find a good number of your posts to be the most narrow minded, arrogant and rude posts coming from a supposed local that we've had in a very long time. In short, you are one of the two most annoying people to ever have joined this local forum in the years since I joined.

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

I totally agree with you!

Nothing annoys me more than the mentality of, "our way or the highway."

It goes back to the Mormon thought process and the Mormon culture of its members.... Narrow minded in all aspects, and holier than thou mentality.

It's the Mormon church's members that are giving SLC and Utah a bad reputation. We have great skiing, clean city, the Mormon church builds CCC, but that can only go so far. Mormon members need to take some of their own advice and be more welcoming, and be more friendly to their "fellow neighbors".

Hopefully that all made sense...

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Stenar

We don't know that HP was backing away from this deal.

I think it went like this:

Church leaders see 111 and think it would be a good place for a secondary office building for the church downtown. They approach HP about taking over the project.

Goldman Sachs was originally going to rent space in 111, but the church contacts Boyer about putting them in their new building on State.

Boyer suddenly raises the height of their building because Goldman is switching to their building.

HP isn't going to have another project in the works any time soon. Not unless they've known about this for a year or more. These highrise developments don't just happen overnight.

Nice SPECULATION!

Well, I think it went like this.

Boyer was considering building 145 S State and approached Goldman Sacs wondering if they would be interested in more space, or an entire building all to themselves, thus the original rendering.

Boyer realized the market is hotter than they originally expected it to be, and increased the height.

Goldman made a decision that yes they did want to move to 145.

Boyer increased the height again.

Hamilton now has 222 that will have a huge vacancy and they are also committed to building 111, so they can either put 111 on hold on focus on releasing 222 or scrap for the time being.

Hamilton shopped the project around, probably to many potential developers.

City Creek Reserve, having an interest in that intersection, and gave Hamilton the best offer. CCR saw the potential of 111 for many reasons, here are two 1) Knowing that the LDS church needs some additional office space and CCR could easily leverage that into a pre-leasing agreement. 2) 111 brings a very large number of more office workers into downtown, who will shop, eat, and even possibly decide to live in downtown, benefiting another huge CCR investment into downtown (CCC)


Well how about that, both scenarios work don't they! One conveniently puts the LDS church into a controlling power hungry position, one puts the LDS church into a, we care about the future of downtown and our other investments position.

[delts145]

Seriously Plaid Shirts, If your posts are any indication of who you are and how you conduct yourself in the community, then I can't blame a few Mormons for not being very welcoming to you. In the real, non-blogger world most consider me one of the nicest people they know, and I really do make a considerable attempt to understand where the other guy is coming from. However, quite frankly I find a good number of your posts to be the most narrow minded, arrogant and rude posts coming from a supposed local that we've had in a very long time.

There is a huge difference between what Stenar and other locals post as constructive criticisms, and the contents of your typical post like the one below.

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

I totally agree with you!

Nothing annoys me more than the mentality of, "our way or the highway."

It goes back to the Mormon thought process and the Mormon culture of its members.... Narrow minded in all aspects, and holier than thou mentality.

It's the Mormon church's members that are giving SLC and Utah a bad reputation. We have great skiing, clean city, the Mormon church builds CCC, but that can only go so far. Mormon members need to take some of their own advice and be more welcoming, and be more friendly to their "fellow neighbors".

Hopefully that all made sense...

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by delts145

Seriously Plaid Shirts, If your posts are any indication of who you are and how you conduct yourself in the community, then I can't blame a few Mormons for not being very welcoming to you. In the real, non-blogger world most consider me one of the nicest people they know, but quite frankly I find a good number of your posts to be the most narrow minded, arrogant and rude posts coming from a supposed local that we've had in a very long time. In short, you are one of the two most annoying people to ever have joined this local forum in the years since I joined.

I feel welcomed in Utah, thanks for your concern delts

It's tourist that I am involved with through my company that have said those remarks, and I agree with them most of the time.

Also, I feel honored to be in such a high ranking, thanks delts

[Skystruck]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

It's also the Mormon politicians in Utah government that are holding SLC and Utah back as well...

If every state with zero LDS politictions was doing amazing and Utah ranked dead last at everything you might have a valid point. Sure there are some laws still on the books that are outdated and some that are down right silly but as a whole SLC and Utah consistently rank very high and have an economy that many states envy. More diversity on capitol hill would be welcome but they are clearly doing at least a few things right.

[Stenar]

Nice speculation, but I don't think Goldman would move to 145 over 111. The main reason being that 111 is closer to 222, unless they're abandoning 222. But I still think Main is more attractive than State St. for a large firm such as Goldman.

Even if they were abandoning 222, 111 could be their building as it's larger, a more advantageous location than 145, and more prestigious being attached to UPAC and closer to the heart of CCC.

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Nice SPECULATION!

Well, I think it went like this.

Boyer was considering building 145 S State and approached Goldman Sacs wondering if they would be interested in more space, or an entire building all to themselves, thus the original rendering.

Boyer realized the market is hotter than they originally expected it to be, and increased the height.

Goldman made a decision that yes they did want to move to 145.

Boyer increased the height again.

Hamilton now has 222 that will have a huge vacancy and they are also committed to building 111, so they can either put 111 on hold on focus on releasing 222 or scrap for the time being.

Hamilton shopped the project around, probably to many potential developers.

Property Reserve, having an interest in that intersection, and gave Hamilton the best offer. PRI saw the potential of 111 for many reasons, here are two 1) Knowing that the LDS church needs some additional office space and PRI could easily leverage that into a pre-leasing agreement. 2) 111 brings a very large number of more office workers into downtown, who will shop, eat, and even possibly decide to live in downtown, benefiting another huge PRI investment into downtown (CCC)


Well how about that, both scenarios work don't they! One conveniently puts the LDS church into a controlling power hungry position, one puts the LDS church into a, we care about the future of downtown and our other investments position.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Skystruck

If every state with zero LDS politictions was doing amazing and Utah ranked dead last at everything you might have a valid point. Sure there are some laws still on the books that are outdated and some that are down right silly but as a whole SLC and Utah consistently rank very high and have an economy that many states envy. More diversity on capitol hill would be welcome but they are clearly doing at least a few things right.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Skystruck

If every state with zero LDS politictions was doing amazing and Utah ranked dead last at everything you might have a valid point. Sure there are some laws still on the books that are outdated and some that are down right silly but as a whole SLC and Utah consistently rank very high and have an economy that many states envy. More diversity on capitol hill would be welcome but they are clearly doing at least a few things right.

A lot of Utah's rankings and our economy are despite the legislature, not because of it.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

I feel welcomed in Utah, thanks for your concern delts

It's tourist that I am involved with through my company that have said those remarks, and I agree with them most of the time.

Also, I feel honored to be in such a high ranking, thanks delts

Why am I not surprised that you would consider that kind of ranking an honor...

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Nice speculation, but I don't think Goldman would move to 145 over 111. The main reason being that 111 is closer to 222, unless they're abandoning 222. But I still think Main is more attractive than State St. for a large firm such as Goldman.

Even if they were abandoning 222, 111 could be their building as it's larger, a more advantageous location than 145, and more prestigious being attached to UPAC and closer to the heart of CCC.

Exactly, parts of both scenarios are a stretch, both scenarios are just that, Speculation. Unless Hamilton or CCR states why the deal was made none of us will ever know.

There should be no reason anyone on here should be bothered by the fact that 111 is still being developed, to the same height and design as the last update by Hamilton many months ago, simply because of a change in the developer. It's simply because many people have bitter feelings towards the organization that owns CCR. This discussion wouldn't even be occurring if it was any other developer that had purchased 111.

Originally Posted by Stenar

A lot of Utah's rankings and our economy are despite the legislature, not because of it.

Yes but it's the legislature that makes the laws that make it a very pro-business state.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Skystruck

If every state with zero LDS politictions was doing amazing and Utah ranked dead last at everything you might have a valid point. Sure there are some laws still on the books that are outdated and some that are down right silly but as a whole SLC and Utah consistently rank very high and have an economy that many states envy. More diversity on capitol hill would be welcome but they are clearly doing at least a few things right.

Well said Skystruck...