The 401 - Page 6

MolsonExport · #**101** Posted **Feb 13, 2014, 1:44 PM**

Somewhere in between "free" and the "highway robbery" that they are currently charging would be fair and should not overwhelm the 407. I guess the wealthy have the 407, and the pecuniary-challenged, the "Rocket".

ScreamingViking · #**102** Posted **Feb 13, 2014, 2:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Aren't the rates controlled by government regulation?

I believe the contract to operate the highway governs increases, based on certain justifications. But the 407 ETR was also supposed to be required to get Ontario government permission for toll rate increases - there was a court battle over that and the courts sided with the 407 operator (I don't know if it's still being appealed by the government, but that happened about 10 years ago). There are also rules in place governing expansion requirements once certain traffic levels are reached.

sonysnob · #**103** Posted **Feb 14, 2014, 1:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I believe the contract to operate the highway governs increases, based on certain justifications. But the 407 ETR was also supposed to be required to get Ontario government permission for toll rate increases - there was a court battle over that and the courts sided with the 407 operator (I don't know if it's still being appealed by the government, but that happened about 10 years ago). There are also rules in place governing expansion requirements once certain traffic levels are reached.

I believe that the contract is structured so that the 407 can raise the rates as much as they want, so long as traffic volumes along the highway do not decrease.

Innsertnamehere · #**104** Posted **Feb 14, 2014, 2:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

But because it's a privately operated highway, the 407 tolls are set according to what is good for the profitability of the 407.

Theoretically this would mean getting as many vehicles through at a time, I.E. as full as it can be without slowing down. More customers = more cash. It would obviously be a specific ratio based on how much more demand you attract contrasted by the loss in revenue from the lower rate, but the idea would be to get more vehicles through so that you can collect money from more people and therefor more profits. And Judging by rush hour traffic levels on it, they have as many people on the highway as you will be able to get while still ensuring 100% free flowing traffic. (there are obviously some loose spots around where they add a lane, but generally its pretty tight) You could probably implement a more effective off peak rate to encourage more use at those times, but still.

sonysnob · #**105** Posted **Feb 26, 2014, 4:51 PM**

How many times has this happened this year? This is a bad stretch of highway:

http://www.cp24.com/news/tractor-trailer-pileup-closes-eb-hwy-401-east-of-gta-1.1704244

haljackey · #**106** Posted **Feb 26, 2014, 8:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

How many times has this happened this year? This is a bad stretch of highway:

http://www.cp24.com/news/tractor-trailer-pileup-closes-eb-hwy-401-east-of-gta-1.1704244

Meanwhile, in Ingersoll:

Innsertnamehere · #**107** Posted **Feb 26, 2014, 10:49 PM**

they really need it 6 laned to Kingston..

ScreamingViking · #**108** Posted **Mar 4, 2014, 4:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haljackey

Meanwhile, in Ingersoll:

Imagine if one of those chunks had slammed into a car or truck heading the opposite way at speed

MolsonExport · #**109** Posted **Mar 4, 2014, 10:09 PM**

those tall walls are not very reassuring when there are semi-trailers barreling down the road.

MolsonExport · #**110** Posted **Mar 4, 2014, 10:16 PM**

the substitute for the 401 (when shut)....is woefully inadequate. A few years ago during December, I got stuck on the wretched EDR for 4 hours due to an accident near (you guessed it, the weather black hole of) Woodstock. In that time, we moved a grand total of 10 kilometers. Kids screaming in the backseat, cold shitty weather, and stuck behind a convoy of trucks in Drumbo (or was it Innerkip?). Eventually I got so fed up, I turned around and drove back to where the highway was closed off and went down to the 403.

Innsertnamehere · #**111** Posted **Mar 4, 2014, 11:06 PM**

word of advice when taking the EDR: don't take the EDR. pull onto some gravel backroads, you will be able to do 70-80km/h on them and fly by the suckers trying to squeeze onto the EDR.

waterloowarrior · #**112** Posted **Mar 5, 2014, 1:34 AM**

^ do not attempt when driving a transport truck. Seen so many truckers drive past warning signs trying to find an alternative to the EDR and end up stuck at places like Kingston Mills or at the bottom of a steep hill.

manny_santos · #**113** Posted **Mar 8, 2014, 1:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

^ do not attempt when driving a transport truck. Seen so many truckers drive past warning signs trying to find an alternative to the EDR and end up stuck at places like Kingston Mills or at the bottom of a steep hill.

Or, they come right into Kingston, and make it impossible to drive downtown. This happens once or twice a year if there's an accident on the 401 between Montreal Street and Highway 15.

MolsonExport · #**114** Posted **Mar 26, 2014, 12:47 PM**

Therein lies the problem with the 401. For most places in South-West Ontario, there are few other options. And when it gets shut, the pathetic EDR options become hellishly clogged.

Doady · #**115** Posted **Mar 26, 2014, 10:49 PM**

They should probably extend 407 to Ottawa as an alternative to 401. And another freeway between Brampton/Kitchener/London/Windsor following the approx route of Highway 7. I have no idea what number that would be though because 407 is already taken.

waterloowarrior · #**116** Posted **Mar 26, 2014, 11:15 PM**

^ there is a study about this but it's been stalled for a while
http://www.peterborohwy7studies.ca/

1overcosc · #**117** Posted **Mar 27, 2014, 1:48 AM**

The problem is by twinning Highway 7 from Ottawa to the GTA, you'd basically render Highway 416 useless and its traffic counts would plummet.

haljackey · #**118** Posted **Mar 27, 2014, 7:33 PM**

407 is actually not taken, there's 407ETR and soon 407E.

416 would still get use from people living in communities east of the GTA and travelers/truckers coming from the US visiting Ottawa.

How far is the 401/s C/E system planned on getting extended eastward?

MolsonExport · #**119** Posted **Mar 28, 2014, 1:03 PM**

416 alignment is kind of asinine. Why have to go so far east (Prescott) to start swinging North to Ottawa? It would have been better to have the northeast commencement begin around Kingston or at least Brockville. I am always amazed at how unpopulated the 416 (and for that matter, the highway from Ottawa to Montreal) is.

1overcosc · #**120** Posted **Mar 28, 2014, 4:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

416 alignment is kind of asinine. Why have to go so far east (Prescott) to start swinging North to Ottawa? It would have been better to have the northeast commencement begin around Kingston or at least Brockville. I am always amazed at how unpopulated the 416 (and for that matter, the highway from Ottawa to Montreal) is.

416 only has one sizeable community on it--Kemptville. And it's only from there northward that its traffic counts are actually the level you'd expect on a 400 series highway because of Kemptville-Ottawa commuter traffic. South of Kemptville it's practically barren...

417 from OTT to MTL is actually decently populated--there's just very few communities actually ON the highway, most of the ones it serves are a few km's off of it. Same with the bulk of the 401 actually.