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  #6881  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 11:49 AM
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Wow, Thanks for reminding us of the Pantages Project Jedi. I'm hoping and thinking that Future Mayor is right, and the new UPAC construction will create the critical mass needed to finally get the restoration project off the ground. I don't think I've ever seen a pic that better illustrates the opulence of Salt Lake's Pantages better than the one below. I can see where it was the jewel of the entire national chain at the time. It's as if every square inch is carved, gilded and bedazzled with artistry.

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Originally Posted by jedikermit View Post
I'm writing something about the Utah Pantages Theatre, and came across this: http://utahpantagestheatre.com/ just a proposal from someone about renovating the Pantages. Most of it we've seen before, including the vintage photos of the interior.

What I really love is this PDF, which shows a restored "sister" Pantages Theatre in Minneapolis. It restored in 2002, and is absolutely beautiful. If we could even approach this with a renovation/restoration? It would be jaw-dropping. Course, I have to assume the Minneapolis one wasn't as completely gutted/ripped into two auditoriums like ours was...but still. This is gorgeous: http://utahpantagestheatre.com/wp-conten...ah-Pantages-Theatre-Mathews-Proposal.pdf The 100th Anniversary of the Pantages will be in 2018; How awesome would it be if they could have it restored by then? Or even announce then that they'll be restoring it? It's one of the local restoration projects that I'm most obsessed with.

...I don't know much about his numbers, or how realistic his proposal is. I just liked the pictures.

...and I just found this image gallery of the Minneapolis Pantages...if you want to drool some more - http://www.hennepintheatretrust.org/galleries/pantages-theatre-image-gallery

Salt Lake City's Pantages ~ Opened in 1918 as the most expensive and opulent structure in the Pantages theatre chain.

Image courtesy of the Utah State History Office

Last edited by delts145; Feb 22, 2014 at 12:42 PM.
     
     
  #6882  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RosePark View Post
And someone must have thought the Dinwoody Building was pretty hideous to cover it up. Look where that got SLC
It wasn't so much that the Dinwoody's façade, along with everything else of that era was deemed inherently ugly. Let's say you had a very bad and vivid experience with a person. You probably wouldn't endow your child with the same name as that person, even though the name has nothing inherently negative about it. It's really about what era the Dinwoody style embodied and represented. If you've ever had a parent or grandparent who went through the era of the Great Wars, along with the Great Depression, you know what I'm talking about. They literally wanted to shake off that dark period as quickly and completely as possible. For example, a commercial façade in particular, executed in the Italianate style, was not seen in a favorable light. It was viewed most often as a symbol of the tremendous hardship that they had long endured.

The typical person born roughly between 1890 and 1930 viewed what we consider masterpieces of craftsmanship in a whole different light from the typical baby boomer.

Last edited by delts145; Feb 22, 2014 at 6:09 PM.
     
     
  #6883  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 4:07 PM
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Additionally, many old building's intricate facades were covered up and streamlined to avoid being seen as "old fashioned," and to create a neutral advertising pallet that would not distract the eye from signage/brand recognition. In many cases the signage was exaggerated, taking up a building's entire face.
     
     
  #6884  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 6:09 PM
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Thoughts on the CCH hotel tower & Earl Holding

Just some thoughts:

Just like most of you, I, too, would love to see a new cool looking and tall convention hotel tower downtown. However, at the same time I kind of feel bad for Earl Holding and company. He/they put up a lot of their own money to build a signature classy hotel, The Grand America, in downtown for the Olympics. They knew that their investment would take a while to recoup its value, but he went ahead, in large part, to give a high quality landmark building to Salt Lake City and its legacy. It is the only 5-star hotel in the city. Some of you on this forum have lambasted him for land banking on lots that he owns, but consider this: he/they probably don't have the money to develop those lots because their money was spent building the Grand America. The block north of Little America was blighted. There were a few derelict buildings on there. So, they put money into a pretty nice parking block. Believe me, it looks much, much better than what was there before.

Part of the problem for the Grand America is that it is too far from the convention center, and not in the nicest part of the city, in my opinion. I've often thought, "Why didn't they build on the lot north of Little America? It would have placed it closer to the convention center to be a viable convention hotel, and it would feel much, more integrated into the urban fabric of downtown, and some of its more older buildings(the old courthouse, etc.)." But, I think they didn't build on that lot because of logistics of connecting with the Little America, and because it would have interrupted the view corridor to the Salt Lake City & County Building, probably our most regarded landmark historical building, besides the Salt Lake Temple.

So, this bill going forward in the Utah congress is controversial to me. I see the need for a convention hotel, and I understand that the state money is going towards the convention meeting space, parking, etc. but I do symphathize for Earl Holding and The Grand America.
     
     
  #6885  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Old&New View Post
Can someone please remind me again what the arguments for moving the prison are?
Uhhhh developers with friends in the Legislature?
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  #6886  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 6:15 PM
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thoughts on Air 7

Just some thoughts:

Is this really going forward?, or is this another one of those projects that gets hyped, and they tear down some buildings, and then they don't get funding, and it never gets built? Do they really have the funding in place to build such a non-typical building here? I mean, it's a young entrepreneur and his Dad. I've got great ideas, and so did what's his name who hired Frank Gehry to design a 40-story hotel and complex in Utah county, and nothing came of that. Does anybody have any more information to prove that Air 7 is going ahead for sure? And, why does the city let developers come in and knock down buildings before the developer have the financing in place to actually build the new building? case in point: Sugar Hole, and the mothballed District Attorney's offices on 6th and Main.
     
     
  #6887  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 6:28 PM
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Pre-construction planning takes a lot longer than one may think, and It may not necessarily be the developer that is holding back construction. The general contractor on that project is Big D, and it may have something to do with them finishing up contracts, but I truly have no Idea.

Leasing of the project has expected occupancy to be 02/2015. a 12 month construction schedule seems pretty optimistic.

The District Attorney's office is a bad example, the funding was in place, and it was determined by the DA that the original concept was not cost effective. I for one am glad that the DA is being prudent in spending tax payer dollars.
     
     
  #6888  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 6:32 PM
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Went by the UPAC demolition/construction site yesterday with my boys...cuts all the way through from Regent to Main now.



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  #6889  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jedikermit View Post
Uhhhh developers with friends in the Legislature?
Right, actually developers who are legislators. The legislature is packed full of them.
     
     
  #6890  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 10:25 PM
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Right, actually developers who are legislators. The legislature is packed full of them.
I knew that...wasn't sure if it was the same legislators writing the bills. Their smug, two-faced "family values" entitlement kills me. Every session.
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  #6891  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 10:27 PM
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When I was a kid, the block north of Little America was a very vibrant block, even after Earl Holding tore down the Newhouse hotel. There were all sorts of businesses there and an old tire store, which I loved the architecture of. How the block became derelict is he bought up all the buildings and let the ones he didn't tear down right away sit vacant for decades. He left the block this ugly scarred mess of dirt and gravel and had his employees park on it. It wasn't until the city harassed him constantly for over a decade to clean up his parking lot and make it look nice that he actually did it. It's not like he made the parking lot look pretty out of the goodness of his heart. He created the blight.

I don't feel bad for him spending his money to put Grand America so far from the Salt Palace. And he hasn't run out of money, nor his heirs, since he's dead. He (his heirs) own(s) an oil company that brings in hundreds of millions every year.

I said on this forum many years ago that he should have put it on the block north of Little America. They could've had created a great synergy between the two hotels by having a bridge connecting the convention space of the two hotels, allowing the hotels to host larger conventions. As it is now, they never have conventions that use both spaces. They are used quite independently.

And. as I previously posted, the back door of the hotel would be only 2 blocks from Salt Palace then, instead of 4 blocks and be a part of the fabric of the city. And it would've had the TRAX stop right at its door for guests to use more easily.

If you took the current configuration of the GA, flipped it around so the front faces east on the Little America block, the existing back door would be near the intersection of 400 S and West Temple. The LA and GA convention spaces would be very close to each other as LA's meeting spaces are on the north of its block. Easy to connect via a skybridge. A skybridge there wouldn't be a concern because it's not blocking the views of anything important.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Just some thoughts:

Just like most of you, I, too, would love to see a new cool looking and tall convention hotel tower downtown. However, at the same time I kind of feel bad for Earl Holding and company. He/they put up a lot of their own money to build a signature classy hotel, The Grand America, in downtown for the Olympics. They knew that their investment would take a while to recoup its value, but he went ahead, in large part, to give a high quality landmark building to Salt Lake City and its legacy. It is the only 5-star hotel in the city. Some of you on this forum have lambasted him for land banking on lots that he owns, but consider this: he/they probably don't have the money to develop those lots because their money was spent building the Grand America. The block north of Little America was blighted. There were a few derelict buildings on there. So, they put money into a pretty nice parking block. Believe me, it looks much, much better than what was there before.

Part of the problem for the Grand America is that it is too far from the convention center, and not in the nicest part of the city, in my opinion. I've often thought, "Why didn't they build on the lot north of Little America? It would have placed it closer to the convention center to be a viable convention hotel, and it would feel much, more integrated into the urban fabric of downtown, and some of its more older buildings(the old courthouse, etc.)." But, I think they didn't build on that lot because of logistics of connecting with the Little America, and because it would have interrupted the view corridor to the Salt Lake City & County Building, probably our most regarded landmark historical building, besides the Salt Lake Temple.

So, this bill going forward in the Utah congress is controversial to me. I see the need for a convention hotel, and I understand that the state money is going towards the convention meeting space, parking, etc. but I do symphathize for Earl Holding and The Grand America.

Last edited by Stenar; Feb 22, 2014 at 10:51 PM.
     
     
  #6892  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 10:53 PM
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The problem with Draper, and a lot of these other suburban cities, is that they want to just create a downtown out of nothing. When they do that, it's artificial and loses what makes most downtowns successful - the fact they were organically made.

But beyond that, their proposals are so grandiose that they're not realistic or viable. So, inevitably, they die out and nothing remotely like it is developed. You're seeing that currently in Lehi, South Salt Lake, Holladay, and even Sandy - who, like Draper, had a fairly large proposal for a downtown with high-rises.

Start small. I get thinking big - but start small. Downtown Salt Lake didn't just pop up with high-rises. It filled the need of the city at the time. The thing is, these cities don't want to do it that way and instead, focus on the long game without ever even getting on the field. Draper should look at creating a realistic downtown for its city. It's great they want to centralize things, and maybe the Utah Prison site is the place for it - but focus on developing what can be accomplished and not what we want accomplished.
     
     
  #6893  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedikermit View Post
I knew that...wasn't sure if it was the same legislators writing the bills. Their smug, two-faced "family values" entitlement kills me. Every session.
Long,long time lurker here. That's right, show some love. This is actually my 2nd post.
I too remember many of these long lost blocks, with bittersweet memories,
and look forward to tossin my 2 cents in now and then, but this quote had to be given props.
Poignant.
Shakespearian. Thanks jedi
     
     
  #6894  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 11:31 PM
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Draper, if it wants a downtown, ought to be building it somewhere closer to the center of population, not in its extreme far corner away from people.


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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
The problem with Draper, and a lot of these other suburban cities, is that they want to just create a downtown out of nothing. When they do that, it's artificial and loses what makes most downtowns successful - the fact they were organically made.

But beyond that, their proposals are so grandiose that they're not realistic or viable. So, inevitably, they die out and nothing remotely like it is developed. You're seeing that currently in Lehi, South Salt Lake, Holladay, and even Sandy - who, like Draper, had a fairly large proposal for a downtown with high-rises.

Start small. I get thinking big - but start small. Downtown Salt Lake didn't just pop up with high-rises. It filled the need of the city at the time. The thing is, these cities don't want to do it that way and instead, focus on the long game without ever even getting on the field. Draper should look at creating a realistic downtown for its city. It's great they want to centralize things, and maybe the Utah Prison site is the place for it - but focus on developing what can be accomplished and not what we want accomplished.
     
     
  #6895  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bflatflat9 View Post

Long,long time lurker here. That's right, show some love. This is actually my 2nd post.
I too remember many of these long lost blocks, with bittersweet memories,
and look forward to tossin my 2 cents in now and then, but this quote had to be given props.
Poignant.
Shakespearian. Thanks jedi
Welcome. It would be great if you post more often.
     
     
  #6896  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 11:41 PM
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Draper, if it wants a downtown, ought to be building it somewhere closer to the center of population, not in its extreme far corner away from people.
Probably. I'm not too familiar with the area, as I mostly just pass through Draper, so, I don't know if there is any type of foundation already established for a downtown area.

And that's the problem with suburbs - from the 70s onward, growth was so unchecked that most these cities lack a centralized location that they can feasibly develop - especially with all the strip malls and shopping centers.
     
     
  #6897  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2014, 11:43 PM
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Looking over Google maps, it looks like the area around the Draper City Hall is ripe for development. That's where they should focus on building their downtown.
     
     
  #6898  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2014, 1:02 AM
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Looking over Google maps, it looks like the area around the Draper City Hall is ripe for development. That's where they should focus on building their downtown.
Yes, and TRAX already stops nearby.
     
     
  #6899  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2014, 1:15 AM
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There's a Trax stop there, but the City Hall is now where near any freeways or any major roads for that matter. To get there you mainly have to take a bunch of back roads to then zip-zap your way there. I don't think those tiny two lane roads can handle any kind of growth in that area.
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  #6900  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2014, 2:20 AM
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There's a Trax stop there, but the City Hall is now where near any freeways or any major roads for that matter. To get there you mainly have to take a bunch of back roads to then zip-zap your way there. I don't think those tiny two lane roads can handle any kind of growth in that area.
I think they could build a small center with housing and smaller office buildings in the 5-6 foot range, not tall buildings, in the historic center. To get there, you go up 12300 and then turn right one block. Easy.

Although, I think if they are going to build taller, they ought to develop/redevelop the area between 11800 S and 12500 S fronting I-15 into taller buildings.

We should be discussing this in the MSA thread, though.
     
     
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