ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[scania]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

OK, but sometimes a developer's profit motive really is indicative of the highest & best use, if he really thought he could get decent retail rents. Maybe the demand really isn't there in which case the spaces sit vacant as is true within a couple blocks in both directions. Just saying.

Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head.

[AtlantaMustang]

We should let Novare throw up as many hideous decks as they want with no design requirements. That'll improve our neighborhoods. These requirements aren't put in place to be a hassle. They're put in to improve the future of our neighborhoods. I don't understand the difficulty in understanding this.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

We should let Novare throw up as many hideous decks as they want with no design requirements. That'll improve our neighborhoods. These requirements aren't put in place to be a hassle. They're put in to improve the future of our neighborhoods. I don't understand the difficulty in understanding this.

Unfortunely AtlantaMustang, some of our Breathren on the Right can't rationalize how a private enity can justify doing something for the good of the community, but only a profit.

[Libertarian]

How is mandating more retail for the good of the community?

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

How is mandating more retail for the good of the community?

Errr....retail creates jobs, when a customer makes purchase the city collects taxes, if residents can walk to shops this eliminates the need to drive which reduces traffic and is good for the environment.....etc.

[AtlantaMustang]

The only real chunks of empty retail space are at Viewpoint, the new Skyhouse developments, and the back of 1075 Peachtree along Juniper. Otherwise these other required retail spaces have added tax revenue, things to do, and jobs in the neighborhoods. Developers want to keep developing here because it actually is profitable. That's why we see Viewpoint renovating their retail and well as multiple of these newer proposals putting forward way more retail than we've seen before. Midtown is finally reaching that critical mass. 77 12th's retail leased up very quickly, even Skyhouse midtown is filling out. That says something about the requirement for your "empty" retail spaces.

[kamden99]

The previous 2 posts make too much sense for this message board.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

The only real chunks of empty retail space are at Viewpoint, the new Skyhouse developments, and the back of 1075 Peachtree along Juniper. Otherwise these other required retail spaces have added tax revenue, things to do, and jobs in the neighborhoods. Developers want to keep developing here because it actually is profitable. That's why we see Viewpoint renovating their retail and well as multiple of these newer proposals putting forward way more retail than we've seen before. Midtown is finally reaching that critical mass. 77 12th's retail leased up very quickly, even Skyhouse midtown is filling out. That says something about the requirement for your "empty" retail spaces.

Touche! This is the real deal right here, AtlantaMustang.

Thank you!

[gttx]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

How is mandating more retail for the good of the community?

As has been said (but ignored, apparently), the requirement is not for retail per se but for active uses at ground level.

This requirement exists not on every street, but in particular on Peachtree Street - the city's signature street and locus of development activity. Active uses make the street more interesting, more human scaled, more walkable. In contrast, blank facades or parking entrances can be uninviting, deadening the street at that block and in fact making some people less likely to even walk through the block to get to other destinations. There is subtlety involved here which requires seeing both good and bad examples. Or you could take it to its extreme conclusion and walk around on Spring St near the Mart.

Sure, you could justify it in many other ways, but they really aren't central to the design argument. It's about creating a better city.

[micropundit]

Google has released a short list of cities being considered for its new ultra-high speed broadband network called Google Fiber. The City of Atlanta, Sandy Springs, Brookhaven, Decatur, Avondale Estates, College Park, East Point, Hapeville and Smyrna are all on the list released today on the Google Fiber blog.

Google Fiber could bring residents access to “Gigabit” Internet connections up to 1,000 Megabits per second—or up to 100 times faster than basic broadband.

Starting this week, Google will work closely with Mayor Kasim Reed and city of Atlanta leaders on a joint planning process to explore what it would take to build a brand new fiber-optic network capable of delivering these gigabit speeds throughout the city. Google will begin compiling a detailed study of local factors that might affect construction plans. Simultaneously, Mayor Reed and city leaders will begin meetings with Google to discuss what it would take to plan and prepare the city for a fiber project of this scale.

Google will provide an update on which cities will get Google Fiber by the end of this year.


http://www.reporternewspapers.net/2014/0...ultra-high-speed-internet-metro-atlanta/

[Libertarian]

There is less and less need for high-overhead storefront retail. Forcing developers to incorporate it into their plans is not an incentive to develop.

[boomtown]

Originally Posted by gttx

As has been said (but ignored, apparently), the requirement is not for retail per se but for active uses at ground level.

This requirement exists not on every street, but in particular on Peachtree Street - the city's signature street and locus of development activity. Active uses make the street more interesting, more human scaled, more walkable. In contrast, blank facades or parking entrances can be uninviting, deadening the street at that block and in fact making some people less likely to even walk through the block to get to other destinations. There is subtlety involved here which requires seeing both good and bad examples. Or you could take it to its extreme conclusion and walk around on Spring St near the Mart.

Sure, you could justify it in many other ways, but they really aren't central to the design argument. It's about creating a better city.

Thanks for saying that....great points.
I like the resourceful trend of the pop-up shops, which use the retail space for SOMETHING, even if it isn't permanent. The PCM pop up gallery for Tommy Taylor is a really cool use of that space for anyone that hasn't seen it next to Dancing Goats.

[AtlantaMustang]

It's a large part of the reason people want to live in Midtown to begin with. Everyone I know loves walking places around the neighborhood. So it becomes an incentive for people to want to live there, driving prices up, driving development, etc. It's really a pretty simple concept to grasp.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

There is less and less need for high-overhead storefront retail. Forcing developers to incorporate it into their plans is not an incentive to develop.

Per gttx, "As has been said (but ignored, apparently), the requirement is not for retail per se but for active uses at ground level."

[Libertarian]

But most of those active uses at ground level don't pay much rent.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

There is less and less need for high-overhead storefront retail. Forcing developers to incorporate it into their plans is not an incentive to develop.

Correct - it is not an incentive. The incentive is to lease apartments at $2 SQF. Requiring a developer include retail is not a deal breaker. Please show me one article where a developer pointed to the retail requirement as the reason their project didn't start or get financing.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

But most of those active uses at ground level don't pay much rent.

They're also small portions of large projects. Incorporate that into project projections. If they don't like it, they can develop elsewhere, and someone else who is capable of working within the confines of the space, economic environment, and zoning will come along and do it.

[Atlanta3000]

Back to Discussing Skyscrapers - Three Hundred Luckie Street

[ATL_J]

@ Atlanta3000

Source, info, etc??

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

@ Atlanta3000

Source, info, etc??

These are very old, pre-recession, concept renders. I am not aware that this project is alive again.

http://cnna.com/view_project.asp?p=78&m=9